Orc Quest; or, A Critical Examination of Agency Through in Interactive Fiction (Warcraft)

If you do take a couple of actions worth (so maybe 2xthe 2 action action), I'm open to pushing you up to the Master level of weapon competency. Also though I'm going to be giving you the option to get a Mightstone, which could represented pushing you up to a higher level of physical conditioning due to it being a buff. That would unlock the weapon competency, and subsequently I'll be throwing various things into the Andorhal battle which could push you up to Master level. I'm now thinking about a nice pathotic scene where you get proclaimed a blademaster and get your backbanner etc.
Want to ask you about this. Obviously with both the mightstone and training Grok will be like figuratively Ghost of Tsushima in killing enemies with one swordstroke? I don't mean literally but he will be much stronger than with just the mightstone if the Forsaken are left alone and never to bother us again?

But with the mightstone he will still be strong but not as strong and so instead must get his sword competency the old fashioned way by killing his enemies?

I'd rather concentrate on the blade reborn if I'm being honest. Hopefully it + mightstone will have to do hopefully.

My concerns are mostly how this might affect Grok's development in how he sees magic/shamanism. However equally it could be him seeing that he does have the ability to stand on his own feet (atop other people's shoulders) and better able to approach the elements as an equal rather than their previous relationship.
I'm not too hung up on them. They were warned and that's all.

In retrospect maybe sending Kartha wasn't the best option and Grok could've went but meet the same thing with that roll result. They still take the warning and said thanks but we're hunkering down and not leaving.

The other way to do it is to switch connection with the flame sword. Why? Learning it now means he can immediately use it but with connection he might still draw upon it if the rolls are good.

I can't say the same for his trainee blademasters. They will suffer with only sharp metal that's not magical without immediate buffs from Grok but his blademaster bodyguards will be fine for the most part.

The best is getting Vishas to provide undead killing advice. Otherwise it's going to depend on the warband.
 
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But with the mightstone he will still be strong but not as strong and so instead must get his sword competency the old fashioned way by killing his enemies?
I think that happens no matter what.

However, I can't really see how we can get master without doing the training. The mightstone is one use only for a few minutes (5 in game, possibly longer here?) In theory we could get to level 5 in the battle, but we'd probably end up pulling something if we tried after the fight was over.

So at least for that pathosy scene it feels like we need training + mightstone.

Side note I do think that there is a certain whatever to Grok mastering the physical arts before moving onto bashing his head on the magical ones. A solid foundation and representation of starting career.

Assuming it doesn't get us killed I'd be happy to leave reconnection until next turn just for that.

I'm not too hung up on them. They were warned and that's all.

In retrospect maybe sending Kartha wasn't the best option and Grok could've went but meet the same thing with that roll result. They still take the warning and said thanks but we're hunkering down and not leaving.
And I'd agree, but I can't help, but feel somewhat responsible for them and have paranoia stemming from "what are they up to" itus.

+ Hunker down all they like the crusade will eventually come their way.
 
Assuming it doesn't get us killed I'd be happy to leave reconnection until next turn just for that.
This is where I'm uncertain on which is better. Flame swords or the connection?

Obviously flame swords will mean the blademasters will get a support buff and die less but what if the connection was chosen to affect the battle too?

Some kind of shaman zen?
 
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This is where I'm uncertain on which is better. Flame swords or the connection?

Obviously flame swords will mean the blademasters will get a support buff and die less but what if the connection was chosen to affect the battle too?

Some kind of shaman zen?
I'm not sure we'll be able to do anything with the flames even if we take it.

will answer the other stuff later but on this, I was planning on it just being a permanent enchant while worn, I don't think I've explicitly noted that in text but yea
In that case my desire to master the blade is increased considerably.
 
Not really he said if it could be replicated it would be. That doesn't preclude it just not being possible or possible in the time available.
That's what the dice is for. If it succeeds the DC roll it affects the coming battle.
[ ] Blades of Flame
At Dreadmist the fire blazing from your sword seemed to leap to ignite the weapons of others. Could you perhaps replicate this feat for the upcoming battle? Certainly such a thing would be especially useful against the undead.
 
Like you didn't want us going for the classic 'power gaming!' Strategy, but then hand us an action menu much like the quests that feature the questers doing that power-gaming.
As an addition, and in fairness this isn't entirely on you, but you seem to be more for active inventory management. I feel certain there HAVE been Quests that DO feature an inventory that requires active management and use versus 'the character will act on their own to avoid paragraphs of if/and' statements…
Interesting comments, so thanks for them, indeed I didn't want you going for such things but I also think I made it difficult for you to do so. You couldn't pick honourable and devious for example, which in other quests is sometimes the case. I also implemented a chargen of my own design to start making you think about agency rather than about how many shinies you could acquire. As for power gaming, again that's explicitly designed out. I'm not big on rolls anyway (well in this quest), but I really don't like it in other quests where the martial score of some ck2 guy + something else + another thing all make the actions auto crits. As for inventory management, I suppose so, y'all forgot about the magic amulet which turned out to be bloodstone and not massively evil or anything, but as soon as Grok took a basic look at it you never brought it up again. In my research before starting this about GMing one of the tips was that players forgetting magic items should mean the character does to prevent item bloat and stuff. I don't list the inventory so I don't require you to actively manage it, and I certainly done keep track of currency or things like that, but considering stuff like Proudpeak I can certainly imagine that greater and more active consideration of stuff by players would be good. Dark Shamanism is one thing, there are other certainly and sure maybe I could have presented stuff better, but the point stands that there's a reason I encourage discussion. Having said that, I'll also certainly admit that this remains my first quest and theefore the thing with significant audience input so at some places I can certainly say my comms mighthave been better
I do think you're a bit harsh on some of the quests that lean more towards player freedom
True no doubt, if others want to write such things then sure, great. If such things are deliberate I've nothing to say really, its just I think a lot of its unconscious by authors who've not really thought about it and are just replicating previous stuff.
Even if we've no intent on becoming war chief it'd still cause fireworks, even if we only intend to lead them for as long as is needed to get them to Kalimdore, which is in and of itself, a nightmare considering the old horde has a sizeable population, a lot of them are war criminals
iffy on the war criminals bit, from the orcs perspective, the majority of them anyway, they accepted their actions and dont regret them. I think you can credible argue they were doing good actually in the draenei genocide, they were piously and respectfully following the desires of their spiritiual leaders and ancestors. That these desires were false is irrelevant for the most part.

Around giving up the position of warchief after you've gotten them there, this will indeed be coming up at some point, unless of course you choose some very strange options. I don't think it would be culturally possible for Grok to do such a thing, to assume the mantle of warchief and then give it up after. Even if he did, I think the blackrock would just sidle up and wink and ask for orders from their totally not warchief.
Spinning off from that it is perhaps one thing I would critique @FractiousDay , but equally I've no real idea of how to fix the issue. Its one that another QM (torroar may his stress levels come down to a reasonable level) has had problems with, that doing sneaky stuff to players is hard to manage. Its hard to slip it into the narrative in a way that we'd have a chance to notice, without it being obvious and no matter what people have a tendency to complain no matter what.

Its one thing that Sparks at Midnight actually manages to handle fairly well because the players have an absurd level of info gathering via a diviner. He relies on us using our heads to remember things we need to check up on, and has given us a chance to find out about intrigue stuff through cleverly worded prophecies that we have a chance to really duff up and often play on fundamental assumptions we hold.

Not really an option here though, like maybe if we had the connection back we could get random prophecies, but still. You've informed us that there are plots around us (as suspected) which creates the opposite problem of frustration at knowing there there, but lacking the agency to do anything about it. Its not a bad thing really and until he's aware I can't really think of a reason why Grok would try and investigate, but it is a note.
Interesting point and I think worthy of a longer response tomorrow.
Want to ask you about this. Obviously with both the mightstone and training Grok will be like figuratively Ghost of Tsushima in killing enemies with one swordstroke? I don't mean literally but he will be much stronger than with just the mightstone if the Forsaken are left alone and never to bother us again?

But with the mightstone he will still be strong but not as strong and so instead must get his sword competency the old fashioned way by killing his enemies?
The Fireblade can already go through most things, it's a very old and as such very powerful weapon. Over time you might be able to do some more cool things with it (eg, 'pushing' the power into other swords like the Blades of Fire action). I'm pretty open to various things but yea its from the spine of a titan created elemental so yes, quite powerful.

On training etc,

To advance to master level swording you need expert level physical conditition, represeting 'better than professional' level conditioning. This would mean better than a professional runner for example, eg, what we'd class as the top runners of endurance races or similar. Master is the highest level, almost supernaturally good. The Mightstone will artificially advance you to expert conditioning, and if you have that it will artificially unlock your swording.

Currently you're only on Advanced conditioning with no +x% to next level type bonus, meaning you'd hvae a whole level's worth of training to do (which would take, probably at least 10 actions) if you wanted to get to expert naturally.

Note this is firmly 'a wizard did it' type stuff, this isn't magic steriods, its very much artificial, if you take it off (for example to train), then it won't affect you.

I'm open to some sort of write in action if you want to take 1 physical training action to get used to teh mightstone once youve attuned to it, rather than doing the current training action which costs 2 actions to advance your conditioning.
However, I can't really see how we can get master without doing the training. The mightstone is one use only for a few minutes (5 in game, possibly longer here?) In theory we could get to level 5 in the battle, but we'd probably end up pulling something if we tried after the fight was over.

So at least for that pathosy scene it feels like we need training + mightstone.
Keep in mind the blade reborn action is physical conditioning, not sword training, as per Sesk's requirement that you get fitter before you can advance the sword stuff.
 
iffy on the war criminals bit, from the orcs perspective, the majority of them anyway, they accepted their actions and dont regret them. I think you can credible argue they were doing good actually in the draenei genocide, they were piously and respectfully following the desires of their spiritiual leaders and ancestors. That these desires were false is irrelevant for the most part.

Around giving up the position of warchief after you've gotten them there, this will indeed be coming up at some point, unless of course you choose some very strange options. I don't think it would be culturally possible for Grok to do such a thing, to assume the mantle of warchief and then give it up after. Even if he did, I think the blackrock would just sidle up and wink and ask for orders from their totally not warchief.
Big question why did you think I was talking about it from the Orc perspective?

I was talking more from the Alliance's perspective, especially Stormwind for whom the dark horde absolutely is.

And yeah in that case orders would be "follow that guys orders do not take orders from me FFS unless I become the actual warchief somehow."

Orcs are in a crappy enough situation as is to not need a war chief and an anti war chief.

I'm open to some sort of write in action if you want to take 1 physical training action to get used to teh mightstone once youve attuned to it, rather than doing the current training action which costs 2 actions to advance your conditioning.
Pass from me.

Ok I'll get to that one eventually.
No really no, hard pass from me.

Even setting aside my personal issues, for me its just less efficient in general, since the Stone's meant to boost our fitness by 1 rank or there about. Take this we unlock swording without relying on the mightstone and get advanced conditioning as an added benefit.

If we have to take an action anyway, I'd rather do the blade reborn with the mightstone to get the maximum benefit instead of spreading out our efforts in the personal area.

I don't trust our ability to reawaken our magic (certainly not in time to actually fight the guy) so lets rely on the thing we can rely on.

Keep in mind the blade reborn action is physical conditioning, not sword training, as per Sesk's requirement that you get fitter before you can advance the sword stuff.
I'm aware, and I think that the benefits of essentially getting +2 ranks in fittness while unlocking swordmaster without needing to rely on "the wizard did it" is a much better option for our goals.
 
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No really no, hard pass from me.

Even setting aside my personal issues, for me its just less efficient in general, since the Stone's meant to boost our fitness by 1 rank or there about. Take this we unlock swording without relying on the mightstone and get advanced conditioning as an added benefit.

If we have to take an action anyway, I'd rather do the blade reborn with the mightstone to get the maximum benefit instead of spreading out our efforts in the personal area.

I don't trust our ability to reawaken our magic (certainly not in time to actually fight the guy) so lets rely on the thing we can rely on.
I'm ok with it. It's to improve strength which the mightstone does. It doesn't improve sword skills and it's permanent the mightstone.
 
If we have to take an action anyway, I'd rather do the blade reborn with the mightstone to get the maximum benefit instead of spreading out our efforts in the personal area.

I'm aware, and I think that the benefits of essentially getting +2 ranks in fittness while unlocking swordmaster without needing to rely on "the wizard did it" is a much better option for our goals.
Ahhhhhh.

So Mightstone will 'imbue' Expert physical conditioning. Just that, it's not '+1 conditioning', it wouldn't take you from expert to master, but it would take you from beginner to expert. I can see how you got that point though given in this case 'move to expert' and '+1' would be the same.

At most, with, for example, some sort of alchemic requisition or healing support, you could get to Expert from your current state in perhaps 3 turns, as you've mentioned though that's not the most efficient way of doing things, and might be something to think of at a different time.
 
Ahhhhhh.

So Mightstone will 'imbue' Expert physical conditioning. Just that, it's not '+1 conditioning', it wouldn't take you from expert to master, but it would take you from beginner to expert. I can see how you got that point though given in this case 'move to expert' and '+1' would be the same.

At most, with, for example, some sort of alchemic requisition or healing support, you could get to Expert from your current state in perhaps 3 turns, as you've mentioned though that's not the most efficient way of doing things, and might be something to think of at a different time.
I'd update the blademaster training regimen with the mightstone as a training aid.

I'm sure Grok's bodyguards can adapt.

But now that I think of it as Castiillian made the might stone he could make a different one as a training aid that functions like the turtle school method of training when it's time to take off the turtle shells.
 
Ahhhhhh.

So Mightstone will 'imbue' Expert physical conditioning. Just that, it's not '+1 conditioning', it wouldn't take you from expert to master, but it would take you from beginner to expert. I can see how you got that point though given in this case 'move to expert' and '+1' would be the same.

At most, with, for example, some sort of alchemic requisition or healing support, you could get to Expert from your current state in perhaps 3 turns, as you've mentioned though that's not the most efficient way of doing things, and might be something to think of at a different time.
Alright then, lets put this as simply as possible.

What is the effect of doing the blade reborn and taking the mightstone at the same time, if the mightstone is meant to give expert conditioning, and the action we're meant to take is to get past our inability to advance which requires expert conditioning.

Does the mightstone just not do anything.

In which case I say ditch the mightstone.

However, I was under the impression that the training was a one and done thing, if it was meant to be 10 AP of actions, stating that would have been real convenient thank you!
 
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Alright then, lets put this as simply as possible.

What is the effect of doing the blade reborn and taking the mightstone at the same time, if the mightstone is meant to give expert conditioning.

Does the mightstone just not do anything.

In which case I say ditch the mightstone.
I thought it was clear. It boosts Grok's strength or as Fractious puts it his physical conditioning to meet the requirement to advance his sword level.
To advance to master level swording you need expert level physical conditition, represeting 'better than professional' level conditioning. This would mean better than a professional runner for example, eg, what we'd class as the top runners of endurance races or similar. Master is the highest level, almost supernaturally good. The Mightstone will artificially advance you to expert conditioning, and if you have that it will artificially unlock your swording.
 
It occurs to me that since I've been talking about inventory management...We COULD hand the Mightstone off to a vassal who could make use of it.
My first thought is Scorn, but there might be other canidates among the named characters that we've seen.
 
I thought it was clear. It boosts Grok's strength or as Fractious puts it his physical conditioning to meet the requirement to advance his sword level.
In which case I am extremely annoyed that I have been belaboured by the assumption that we could just DO the action and get what we need.

Because I am reminded time and again, in this quest assuming doing an action will actually get you the result you want is a waste of fucking time!

If it was meant to be 10 actions not 2, @FractiousDay perhaps you could tell us that in the future!

At least tell us this stuff when we should actually bloody know it.
 
In which case I am extremely annoyed that I have been belaboured by the assumption that we could just DO the action and get what we need.

Because I am reminded time and again, in this quest assuming doing an action will actually get you the result you want is a waste of fucking time!

If it was meant to be 10 actions not 2, @FractiousDay perhaps you could tell us that in the future!

At least tell us this stuff when we should actually bloody know it.
I think it adds up. Doing both could make Grok buff enough to be well whatever's the threshold to over the limit physical conditioning.
 
Alright then, lets put this as simply as possible.

What is the effect of doing the blade reborn and taking the mightstone at the same time, if the mightstone is meant to give expert conditioning, and the action we're meant to take is to get past our inability to advance which requires expert conditioning.

Does the mightstone just not do anything.

In which case I say ditch the mightstone.

However, I was under the impression that the training was a one and done thing, if it was meant to be 10 AP of actions, stating that would have been real convenient thank you!
I'm not sure that's terribly fair. First, the Blade Reborn is a standard training action alongside other training actions such as the stealth one or the slayer one.

Mightstone is a new action which has resulted from a new person and new resources being made available to you, based on an item in game which I thought I'd use. There's various reasons you're being offered it, one of which will become apparent if you take it.

Blade Reborn, as a training option, will gradually increase your physical conditioning, especially toward being a blademaster, so Sesk making sure you're flexible and strong enough to do a double backflip and then cut an abomination's head off or whatever.

The Mightstone will artificially set your conditioning to Expert level, but not improve the base so if you take it off you'll go back to normal. I'm open to some sort of attempt to modify this, I can think of a couple of ways to do so.

Training actions have always taken a while. Currently you're at professional level, you might consider this to be a professional soldier, someone who's used to marching about and so on. Expert as I mentioned would be someone who is so conditioned that's something they do all the time.

I don't think its reasonable to assume that you could have gotten from Advanced (professional) to Expert (professional +) in 2 actions, or roughly 2 weeks. You got from 0 stealth to Basic Stealth in 1 action because that's the basics and it only took a week of lessons to do that. Obviously as you get more skilled it'll take longer to continue to develop your skills. I'm not really sure how you've read such a thing. You're perfectly aware you advance more slowly at higher levels, that's one reason I gave such small advances as you were doing blade training actions.

No onto your question.

The Mightstone will give you expert conditioning as mentioned. This will unlock your swording. It won't modify your base stats. Now this is hypothetical, but say you fought some great wizard or someone who could turn your items off (silvermoon spellbreaker? Oh also DKs too), that would suddenly push you back down to whatever you were before, eg, Advanced with no +s in this case. This might be problematic for various reasons.

Comparably, if you train yourself up over time to be better conditioned then even if someone threw some anti-magic at you or had some sort of hostile magical aura, you'd be fine because your conditioning would be innate.

If you took Mightstone and Blade Reborn as well you'd get at minimum +10% to conditioning, +whatever results from the roll, and you'd also gain the Mightstone obviously. I'm not going to make the Mightstone block training or whatever, Grok can just take it off for training and then put it on.

We COULD hand the Mightstone off to a vassal who could make use of it.
This one will be attuned to you, you could theoretically get more and attune them to other people if you wanted to expend that sort of resource.
 
The Mightstone will give you expert conditioning as mentioned. This will unlock your swording. It won't modify your base stats. Now this is hypothetical, but say you fought some great wizard or someone who could turn your items off (silvermoon spellbreaker? Oh also DKs too), that would suddenly push you back down to whatever you were before, eg, Advanced with no +s in this case. This might be problematic for various reasons.
The lich will turn it off? Despite your recommendation to get it?

Wait a minute. The might stone was what Tirion used when Grok was unable to follow?
 
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I'm not sure that's terribly fair. First, the Blade Reborn is a standard training action alongside other training actions such as the stealth one or the slayer one.

Mightstone is a new action which has resulted from a new person and new resources being made available to you, based on an item in game which I thought I'd use. There's various reasons you're being offered it, one of which will become apparent if you take it.

Blade Reborn, as a training option, will gradually increase your physical conditioning, especially toward being a blademaster, so Sesk making sure you're flexible and strong enough to do a double backflip and then cut an abomination's head off or whatever.

The Mightstone will artificially set your conditioning to Expert level, but not improve the base so if you take it off you'll go back to normal. I'm open to some sort of attempt to modify this, I can think of a couple of ways to do so.

Training actions have always taken a while. Currently you're at professional level, you might consider this to be a professional soldier, someone who's used to marching about and so on. Expert as I mentioned would be someone who is so conditioned that's something they do all the time.

I don't think its reasonable to assume that you could have gotten from Advanced (professional) to Expert (professional +) in 2 actions, or roughly 2 weeks. You got from 0 stealth to Basic Stealth in 1 action because that's the basics and it only took a week of lessons to do that. Obviously as you get more skilled it'll take longer to continue to develop your skills. I'm not really sure how you've read such a thing. You're perfectly aware you advance more slowly at higher levels, that's one reason I gave such small advances as you were doing blade training actions.

No onto your question.

The Mightstone will give you expert conditioning as mentioned. This will unlock your swording. It won't modify your base stats. Now this is hypothetical, but say you fought some great wizard or someone who could turn your items off (silvermoon spellbreaker? Oh also DKs too), that would suddenly push you back down to whatever you were before, eg, Advanced with no +s in this case. This might be problematic for various reasons.

Comparably, if you train yourself up over time to be better conditioned then even if someone threw some anti-magic at you or had some sort of hostile magical aura, you'd be fine because your conditioning would be innate.

If you took Mightstone and Blade Reborn as well you'd get at minimum +10% to conditioning, +whatever results from the roll, and you'd also gain the Mightstone obviously. I'm not going to make the Mightstone block training or whatever, Grok can just take it off for training and then put it on.


This one will be attuned to you, you could theoretically get more and attune them to other people if you wanted to expend that sort of resource.
Except it isn't, tis a 2 AP training action, offered by a pair of experts that I was under the impression was to get over a certain road block, with the investment of that AP once.

We've never had a training action that's more than 1AP before, so I felt I was making the reasonable assumption that it was a one and done thing, especially since this is getting fit not learning something incredibly complicated. And no I am not underestimating how rapidly someone who is dedicated to it can gain in muscle in a month, even at a high level.

And yeah that's what I thought, its also why I didn't want the freaking mightstone as a crutch.

Now we've got no choice, but to take it and that is frustrating as hell, because I was under the false impression that for once we'd get a training action that actually led to a result after doing it, especially with something that is both comparatively easy and something we've been supposedly working on for a very long time.

And no I wasn't accusing you of making the mightstone block training (although it will block training defacto since it'll never actually get done because "we have the stone" and block any exp we might get for it since we'll be wearing it in combat all the time).

I am frustrated at the current situation where we are being forced to use the stupid thing to compensate for the fact we cannot gain EXP in yet another area through the means we're supposed to get our EXP and that will be wasting our lives trying to get up to "expert" this area all the while being even more at the mercy of any spell casters that want a go than we were before!

Since not only will we be magicless and shit, we will also have to suddenly readapt to being significantly weaker when they decide to turn it the fuck off.

The lich will turn it off? Despite your recommendation to get it?

Wait a minute. The might stone was what Tirion used when Grok was unable to follow?
No shit it can turn it off its a powerful magic user.

And no probably not, what he used is called "being an actually useful and powerful character" to nuke with the light.
 
The lich will turn it off? Despite your recommendation to get it?

Wait a minute. The might stone was what Tirion used when Grok was unable to follow?

the mercy of any spell casters that want a go
So yes, Tirion had one, which I'll exposit more on in the action result. As for various people turning it off, I'm not planning on have the lich do so, I don't think its part of their doctrine. However a death knight or a spellbreaker would indeed do that sort of thing, possibly a blue dragon or someone like that
 
So yes, Tirion had one, which I'll exposit more on in the action result. As for various people turning it off, I'm not planning on have the lich do so, I don't think its part of their doctrine. However a death knight or a spellbreaker would indeed do that sort of thing, possibly a blue dragon or someone like that
Can't imagine why he'd need one, the boost it provides seems to become excessively less the stronger you are and while he's a human, he's a very strong human.

Given who he is, I assumed he just hit them with exorcism (paladin of retribution, lore wise its explicitly for deaing with the undead etc. and it creates big booms) or hammer of wrath.
 
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