Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, Norse Cultivation seems entirely designed to generate Fighters and keep them Fighting even when that goes against their best interests. The point Shard makes about "They say Orthstirr is the one thing that's yours, but Orthstirr can apparently disappear magically simply by taking an extended breather to--say, raise children or something." Is something I hadn't previously considered, but Steinarr is literally our case study--his Orthstirr apparently started vanishing and only started coming back once he got in the swing of Fighting again. There's something to be said that "Cultivation based on communal reputation should, in fact, decline if you're not actively stoking it." But that shouldn't be the lion's share of your Orthstirr either--unless that's the point. The 'Automated System' keeps you balanced, so your Frami effectively becomes a hole in your Cultivation that the rest of your Orthstirr starts spilling out from thanks to that whole 'Your Aspects are always kept as close to balanced as mathematically possible' thing.
Which leads to the issue of "Your Cultivation increasingly tries to get you killed the stronger you get, by requiring you to constantly one-up yourself to maintain it but not paying out the advantages that should let you get away with it." Since Orthstirr is only your fuel tank, and doesn't actually help you in the practice of getting stronger, which requires Hamingja or a strong community to help you do so.
They're completely disconnected, and we're starting to see some of the perverse incentives of that. Having more Orthstirr lets you fight longer, but not necessarily better. While every other form of Cultivation we know of (Or can hypothethize), turns your 'Resource' into an avenue to empower the self to better match the dangers that emerge as a result of your greater power. The complete lack of that trait without anything to seemingly balance it out is important.
Norse Mythology is extremely heavy on the fatalism aspect. That "You are absolutely Doomed, and your worth as a person is entirely dependent on how awesome that Doom is." If that were the case though, someone like Hallr would never happen, because a system where everyone's Fate is absolutely set in stone would never produce an outlier like Hallr--and the ripple effects that come from Whatever The Fuck He Did. Additionally, it's at odds with the very idea of a Cultivation setting, which is all about defying an otherwise inescapable Fate, through one measure or context or another.
Furthermore, the Aesir were a thing that apparently exist in some fashion, Tyr was invoked as part of the Raid we did. The idea that "You can never match the Gods under any circumstances because that's not your Fate" is directly contradicted by Hallr, who defeated a God and took a measure of their power for himself and his bloodline. He also got killed by a gank squad of absurdly powerful Cultivators who apparently get exemptions from dying within 30-50 years of life not long afterwards, which is another thing that defies the apparent Rules that Norse Cultivation works on.
Which tells me that all of these 'Bugs' are not just inherent weaknesses in the school of thought, but intended features. Which means those can be iterated away from with the right mindset. My conclusion from all of these factoids boils down to 'Norse Cultivation Sucks because the ones who know how to do it properly are either dead, collectively interested in keeping the secrets to themselves, or otherwise being assholes benefiting from a gigantic grist mill of low to mid level fighters getting themselves killed young by a chain of perverse incentives, and the high level ones get a cut of the take in exchange for helping enforce the current status quo'
The alternative, of course, being that the Steelfathers have already figured out how to break out from the system, and aren't interested in competition. But the fact Steel is apparently cursed to eventually twist in the hands of its master says concerning things about the order of super cultivators who apparently stand above all others.
Which leads to the issue of "Your Cultivation increasingly tries to get you killed the stronger you get, by requiring you to constantly one-up yourself to maintain it but not paying out the advantages that should let you get away with it." Since Orthstirr is only your fuel tank, and doesn't actually help you in the practice of getting stronger, which requires Hamingja or a strong community to help you do so.
They're completely disconnected, and we're starting to see some of the perverse incentives of that. Having more Orthstirr lets you fight longer, but not necessarily better. While every other form of Cultivation we know of (Or can hypothethize), turns your 'Resource' into an avenue to empower the self to better match the dangers that emerge as a result of your greater power. The complete lack of that trait without anything to seemingly balance it out is important.
Norse Mythology is extremely heavy on the fatalism aspect. That "You are absolutely Doomed, and your worth as a person is entirely dependent on how awesome that Doom is." If that were the case though, someone like Hallr would never happen, because a system where everyone's Fate is absolutely set in stone would never produce an outlier like Hallr--and the ripple effects that come from Whatever The Fuck He Did. Additionally, it's at odds with the very idea of a Cultivation setting, which is all about defying an otherwise inescapable Fate, through one measure or context or another.
Furthermore, the Aesir were a thing that apparently exist in some fashion, Tyr was invoked as part of the Raid we did. The idea that "You can never match the Gods under any circumstances because that's not your Fate" is directly contradicted by Hallr, who defeated a God and took a measure of their power for himself and his bloodline. He also got killed by a gank squad of absurdly powerful Cultivators who apparently get exemptions from dying within 30-50 years of life not long afterwards, which is another thing that defies the apparent Rules that Norse Cultivation works on.
Which tells me that all of these 'Bugs' are not just inherent weaknesses in the school of thought, but intended features. Which means those can be iterated away from with the right mindset. My conclusion from all of these factoids boils down to 'Norse Cultivation Sucks because the ones who know how to do it properly are either dead, collectively interested in keeping the secrets to themselves, or otherwise being assholes benefiting from a gigantic grist mill of low to mid level fighters getting themselves killed young by a chain of perverse incentives, and the high level ones get a cut of the take in exchange for helping enforce the current status quo'
The alternative, of course, being that the Steelfathers have already figured out how to break out from the system, and aren't interested in competition. But the fact Steel is apparently cursed to eventually twist in the hands of its master says concerning things about the order of super cultivators who apparently stand above all others.
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