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Oh, they absolutely can't just go off on their own, but if their liege chooses to mobilize them...
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
Oh, they absolutely can't just go off on their own, but if their liege chooses to mobilize them...
I think that's the (one of the) reasons why people are backing the cross, here.
All of that fighting is against ourselves.
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its cause of loot, in Christendom its all in the hands of a few cultivators. In Norsedom every Viking has their grubby little hands on loot they don't deserve, which is why they are weaker.
Shard
One and Many
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I think we could try making the Norse Cultivation play to some of it's strengths as well. With how EVERYONE is a cultivator, you can have extreme noncombat capability. Megafarms. Mastertraders. Mastersmiths. Masterhealers. What's needed is to make sure that those professions get Orthsirr. By which we really mean, is respected and seen as something to aspire to. If you can do that, then you can also get dedicated Vikings who are as focused on combat as on knights, but there will be many more of them.
Especially if each generation is very focused on raising the next one up - Like if your Orthsirr and their Orthsirr was intertwined.
The fatalistic focus on the Norns is honestly pretty problematic too. Particularly since the Norns don't seem very interested in prolonging Viking lives in a manner to protect themselves against other encroaching cultures.
Especially if each generation is very focused on raising the next one up - Like if your Orthsirr and their Orthsirr was intertwined.
The fatalistic focus on the Norns is honestly pretty problematic too. Particularly since the Norns don't seem very interested in prolonging Viking lives in a manner to protect themselves against other encroaching cultures.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
Oh, the Norse system has huge advantages as well. There's a reason that we're raiding them... and doing so successfully. It's just that we're also trying to feel out the shape of the Christian advantages (which we know are long-term overwhelming) so we can get ideas of what to work on to improve the Norse system in the hopes of keeping up.
Like, "everyone can cultivate" and "you can totally farm/craft/hunt/build/etc using your cultivation" are two awesome features that we want to try to keep... but we don't know enough about how the underlying metasystem works to know what that's going to cost us.
Example: Orthstirr is like water. It fills you... but t could pour right back out again as well. This is tied into how viking cultivators don't get to solidify their gains in quite the same way - because doing that would trap the orthstirr, and that's not how orthstirr works. It's also tied into the particular way that all vikings are cultivators. If you're part of the society, and you buy in to its rules, and the society accepts you, then just by acting like a decent human being and occasionally trying to do little awesome things (which the culture strongly encourages you to do) you're goign to wind up with soem orthstirr inside of you, and you're going to kind of pick up how to use it as you go. A lot of this stuff is pretty instinctual as long as you have the magic inside of you already.
Now... that's the method that the vikings use to get absolutely everyone cultivating. Is it a necessary precondition? Unclear. What about the fact that viking cultivators all die off before they get Real Old? Is that a necessary precondition? Still unclear.
So we poke at it, and try to figure out what we can figure out, based on the information we have available.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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It might take some thinking, but the clues are all there for how the Norns interact with Norse Cultivation.
Well, not all the clues. Just the ones that are relevant to the conversation at hand
Well, not all the clues. Just the ones that are relevant to the conversation at hand
The Norns seem to pluck any good warrior young. Why - whether it's to prevent threats to themselves, to gather einherjar, or for some other reason - is obscure.
Note that by controlling deaths in battle, the Norns can also control the flow of Orthstirr.. 🤔
Note that by controlling deaths in battle, the Norns can also control the flow of Orthstirr.. 🤔
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Hmmm. The Norns decide the fated day of death when a child is born...perhaps that's what makes them a Cultivator as well? The Norns' touch? That'd make some sense as to why universal cultivation systems aren't more common if true.
That feels subtly off though, and I can't quite put my finger on why.
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
Probably because the 12 year old would have to be able to actually harm the 30 year old. Though, notably, we did kill a guy by kneeing him in the groin as a child...
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They don't decide how you die, just what day. If you don't get in a fight that could kill you that day then you drown or have an aneurysm or whatever. That's why the Norse aren't afraid of combat at all...they die exactly the same time either way.
Christians actually have a hard counter to the Norns.
The Norns decide when you die.
Christianity's whole thing is Resurrection.
(Well, if you're Christ anyways, but I'm eyeing that Crucifix Realm and Charlemagne hard).
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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When you reach the Crucifix, Knightly Armor stops being Knightly and turns into Crucifixion Armor.
Just compiling a bunch of qoutes from the QM involving the nornir and cultivation
he says the Nornir existing cant be reasonably changed, but unreasonbly can be changed. Might imply brekaing some rules might let us et rid of them or we have to keep them but change how they work if we want a reasonble shot
edit: literacy rates will be important i bet
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Well that sounds fairly horrifying. Makes me think of Penance from Marvel.
It seems like Christians harness prayer and faith in some way to generate power. Orthstirr, on the other hand, doesn't require any fate or devotion to the gods. Is it possible orthstir comes from the harvest of souls/destiny?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Notably though, Blackhand DID survive dying.
Also the Norn deathcurse is, from what I can tell, just powered by Norse fatalism and belief that they WILL die. If we change Norse culture to be less depressing, the certainty of death may become.. less certain.
Also the Norn deathcurse is, from what I can tell, just powered by Norse fatalism and belief that they WILL die. If we change Norse culture to be less depressing, the certainty of death may become.. less certain.
at the smae time the QM has stated it is a blessing letting people survive wounds they shouldnt, like we shouldnt save fabvir this vote, since the wounds wont kill him if it isnt his time, and we cant save him if it is his time.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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To clarify the first and second quotes that Slickji nabbed;
If your body were to be completely annihilated and it wasn't your fated day, you wouldn't be dead. Well, your body would be but your consciousness would simply be trapped in Ginnungagap until your fated day, when you can finally die and escape that hell.
Fates worse than death are rather common for Norse cultivators, when you get down to it.
But the body can be healed from anything, even completely regrown, as long as your time has not come to pass. And if the body is regrown, you're freed from Ginnungagap!
Ain't that nifty?
If your body were to be completely annihilated and it wasn't your fated day, you wouldn't be dead. Well, your body would be but your consciousness would simply be trapped in Ginnungagap until your fated day, when you can finally die and escape that hell.
Fates worse than death are rather common for Norse cultivators, when you get down to it.
But the body can be healed from anything, even completely regrown, as long as your time has not come to pass. And if the body is regrown, you're freed from Ginnungagap!
Ain't that nifty?
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the more important qoute is that the Norse need writing for sure
imagine instead of having to go on quest to kill some OP guy to learn Seidr you coul djust go to a library and the library porbably has a larger number of spells to choose from! Would that not be super nifty? or imagine having your awesome Epic rune configuration written down for use by later generations instead of being on stone outside that get made un readable by erosion! what about a book on cristian cultivation so people on their first raid arent blind sided? or a book about your awesome deeds being highly publicized itd probably give you descendant's orthstirr (or at least give you orthstirr and then that orthstirr is divided up between your descendants!)?
TLDR become Jarl, and make library and teach people to read and norse cultivation is much more consistent!
imagine instead of having to go on quest to kill some OP guy to learn Seidr you coul djust go to a library and the library porbably has a larger number of spells to choose from! Would that not be super nifty? or imagine having your awesome Epic rune configuration written down for use by later generations instead of being on stone outside that get made un readable by erosion! what about a book on cristian cultivation so people on their first raid arent blind sided? or a book about your awesome deeds being highly publicized itd probably give you descendant's orthstirr (or at least give you orthstirr and then that orthstirr is divided up between your descendants!)?
TLDR become Jarl, and make library and teach people to read and norse cultivation is much more consistent!
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
That sounds... horrible.
Okay... effects of the nornir:
- Everybody dies eventually. This limits our ability to have Old Masters out there getting older and accumulating power. This may or may not have an impact on the overall orthstirr economy.
- It makes the Vikings way more violence-prone. If the only thing of you that survives is your stories, and you're guaranteed to die on the same day regardless, then you want to die in battle - ideally a glorious battle that will burnish your story that much more.
- It's part of the schtick that lets vikings shrug off injuries that would be either crippling or outright lethal on everyone else. Like, when we were kids, Stigr shot Hod Horrason with an arrow. It blew out his chest... and there weren't any healers immediately nearby. Is he dead? Eh... maybe? Similarly, Fabvir was sent flyign through the air wht a gaping hole in hs chest, trailing blood... but after he slams into the ground and tumbles a few times, he's still capable of voluntary movement. As long as we can keep the bird off him, he'll be fine.
- It means that life-saving medical attention is pointless. As far as Vikings are concerned, there's no real reason to treat disease. It'll kill you or it won't. The only real reason to worry about medical attention is to fix those pesky otherwise-crippling injuries.
I have a suspicion that the thing that the Nornir are doing isn't actually what everyone thinks they're doing... an the vikings themselves don't really act like it's 100% true, either. Look at the percentage of vikings who die in battle. Look at the fraction of their days where they get into fights that might reasonably kill them versus days where they're just at home farming or whatever. I'll bet these don't line up at all in the way you'd expect if there was potent fate magic picking the day for you and otherwise doing not much.
I wonder if Charred soul is just their death date isn't done yet and so their new body just takes a while to grow. But there is a new soul inhabiting that body too concurrently. Allowing for the ability to pass on their knowledge. Was Hallr supposed to die that day our was his body just destroyed?
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Yep. Agreed entirely.
I think this may partially just be a cultivator thing. They're tougher than they should be and heal from things that they shouldn't. The Norn thing probably accentuates this a bit for Norsemen, but I do think it's true for anyone who cultivates their body to some degree.
Evidence suggests that this is not true, or not quite anyway. Our one and only seidr spell is to stabilize the heavily wounded, and we needed to use it on Abjorn when we first got it (or at least felt that need strongly enough to manifest it). I think it's very useful for making sure people don't hit that 'stuck in Ginnungagap' threshold, and likely speeds up further healing as well since it prevents things from getting worse.
Here I again agree entirely. The Norns are weighting the dice in various ways, I think.
I mean what sounds more impressive and gives out Orthsir. Awesome quest for knowledge or just heading to the local library. Like it seems a lot lamer unless you make the library harder to access somehow. Possibly by points system or something.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I don't think that's how it works, because Hallr doesn't have his own Orthstirr, which is the only thing of yours that's truly yours. If he was just a shade stuck in Ginnungagap that accidentally is re-emboided in Halla, he'd have his own supply. He doesn't, he can guide, he can give information--but he doesn't have any power of his own.
No, I think Hallr did something Fucked Up and Unprecedented, and that's why we're the Protagonist, and the story ends when we die without a successor. I Also don't think it went without being Noticed, given the whole "Nine Steelfathers dogpiled him until he died" thing going on, and the fact that basically nobody knew what the fuck he was up to (Including his own son) after the fact--it smacks of the Norns taking Direct Action rather than "Well, I just happened to get nine guys who are at the top of the world to cooperate in order to kill me." Let's not forget the pogrom that apparently happened with regards to Hallr's sons as well. I think the only thing that's thrown them is that Hallr's actual successor was a woman, and chauvinism meant they didn't notice.
I would point out as well, that "Nine" is also the same number needed to acquire Boons, or refine a Trick up to the Refined level, or to learn a General Trick. "Nine" seems to be the Number that signifies that divine forces are fucking around as opposed to Vikings being Vikings.
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