I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Sure. Animals are a bit different, though
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
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- Original Fantasy Action
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- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
So, at 100% its
90 armor.
+10 defense
+10 initiative.
+10 capacity.
+10 analysis.
And it can have different versions depending on which god we dedicate it to? Hot damm
Like isn't our normal armor one of the best around and it only has 21 armor at max strength this has 90 (I wonder if it gets a bonus against piercing or armor breaking stuff from being plate).
I'm kinda curious to know what the effects or realizing a saga plate is (if its even possible).
I'm assuming were planning on spreading the design of it?
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Fair. Can we still know around what we and it rolled last turn?
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Sure, its bonuses are 35 to attack, 25 to defense.
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With a dice pool of roughly what? 10d6+35 is very different from 20d6+35, after all.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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10d6 is what it's rolling
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We were told this is just a working prototype and that IF intends for there to be 9 levels of improvement to the plate (some in small ways, some in bigger ones) over time and work on it. So we probably are gonna hold out until we've gotten at least a few improvements before starting on wide spreading it.
We do want to make plate for Abjorn and Stigmar though, so that will be a fruitful ground for experimenting and improving.
Wait, wait this is the prototype? You mean this can get better?
It already blew every other type of armor out of the water and it can get fucking better???
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Huh. Interesting. Maybe we should drop our Orthstirr investment a bit, it's a little high compared to that...
I mean, it only blows them out of the water when dedicating significant permanent Orthstirr loss to doing so. But yes.
Though I'll reiterate that those stats feel a little off, as it should give some sort of bonus for being made of metal even at no Orthstirr investment. Not as much as really good Mail, mind you, but something.
You know there is probably a sweet spot were the amount of othstierr you can gain from defeating stronger foes is higher than the amount you dedicate to be abale to defat said stronger foes.
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I mean, that's true, but it requires actual prescience to properly judge that reliably. In practice you're gonna be taking a loss at least sometimes.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Realistically, you're right. There should be something. However, you're not going to be using the Sagaplate without orthstirr investment, because why would you?
If you were to use the Sagaplate without the orthstirr, then it would have completely different stats
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The actual bonuses from the armor actually aren't that great either. Analysis is a very... ??? Stat overall, it influences our tactics rolls but our tactics rolls being better doesn't provide that much more to us usually, past a certain point. And we are already good at tactics, to the point of usually having pretty great tactical readings available.
Defense isn't bad but we have a built defender who is our shield and does hard work to handle the defense side for us. It just doesn't synergize well with the people Halla has around her. As a combat stat it's also just one of the lower priority ones. And normal armor already gives defense bonuses.
Both defense and Analysis also already have 8 points from Frenzy (soon enough to be 9). So they're less valuable as raises.
Initiative is really good though. It means we are almost always gonna be one of the first to land a blow. If we want to that lets us build to alpha strike pretty hard by knowing we will be going first.
And the armor stats are absurd. Like this is armor that can tank multiple blows from Sunfire at max Power. That's probably the biggest boom from this imo. Having 3x the armor of wondrous mail with a mail helm is insane, though of course that means going with no orthstirr gain for the battle.
Overall Odin isn't a great God for the Sagaplate for Halla specifically, but it's a good example of what it can be. I'm guessing Thor would have something like Stamina and Attack bonuses which is probably better.
Defense isn't bad but we have a built defender who is our shield and does hard work to handle the defense side for us. It just doesn't synergize well with the people Halla has around her. As a combat stat it's also just one of the lower priority ones. And normal armor already gives defense bonuses.
Both defense and Analysis also already have 8 points from Frenzy (soon enough to be 9). So they're less valuable as raises.
Initiative is really good though. It means we are almost always gonna be one of the first to land a blow. If we want to that lets us build to alpha strike pretty hard by knowing we will be going first.
And the armor stats are absurd. Like this is armor that can tank multiple blows from Sunfire at max Power. That's probably the biggest boom from this imo. Having 3x the armor of wondrous mail with a mail helm is insane, though of course that means going with no orthstirr gain for the battle.
Overall Odin isn't a great God for the Sagaplate for Halla specifically, but it's a good example of what it can be. I'm guessing Thor would have something like Stamina and Attack bonuses which is probably better.
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In practice, true, but the 1/10 Orthstirr stats are actively bad. Like...our Gambeson is on par kind of bad. We might use it at low Orthstirr tithes if it had baseline stats and then added on top of them for Orthstirr but as things stand we never will. The entire bottom section of Orthstirr tithes is sort of cut off and thus wasted design space (and that's on top of the realism issue, of course). The defense numbers are also just kind of shitty in general. Like, it arguably makes up for it elsewhere, I guess but that number is way lower than even decent other armor, which seems wrong.
To be clear, I'm not suggesting a power up per se (well, except in Defense), just some sort of base stats and a lower increase per 1/10 Orthstirr (like, 15 Armor base +6 per 1/10 Orthstirr, and a base +3 Defense, or something like that).
Like, right now the 1/10 Orthstirr version is paying Odin for something arguably just worse than Good Mail + Mail Necked Helm (which is Armor 8 and +4 Defense)...which seems really off. If you're tithing any Orthstirr at all the armor should be actually impressive and right now it's just...super not at low levels.
As another example: the 30% level we have right now is worse than our normal armor IMO. That's partially because our normal armor is really good, but anyone who can make Sagaplate can make really good normal armor, so that still feels super off.
Logically, Thor would be Damage, and probably Resist. Maybe Stamina? All armor is gonna have Defense, so it's the other three that will vary.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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Well, the Defense bonus is actually from it being plate armor. However, I'll go ahead and make it a static +9 defense. Is that good?
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Certainly a big improvement, yeah. Handles most of my issues.
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I.F. Ister
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I'll call vote in an hour
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If we want pure damage and defense, Thor is the way to go.
Armor seems a bit too powerful with the new rules. Without Avow, this fight would have lasted for hours as each side just hacked at the other time and again. Heck, Halla's 20 armor would be enough to slow down all fights to a crawl unless all our opponents would wield Steel weapons.
@Imperial Fister your call of course but maybe toning down armor a bit might be a good call? Say, giving it DR of its own rather then limiting all damage to 1? Or maybe damage above soak is added to the 1 damage?
@Imperial Fister your call of course but maybe toning down armor a bit might be a good call? Say, giving it DR of its own rather then limiting all damage to 1? Or maybe damage above soak is added to the 1 damage?
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Hmmm. Let's speculate what other Gods would do!
Thor: Pierce, Resist, ???
Baldr: Stamina, Resist, ???
Heimdall: Initiative, Analysis, ???
Freya: Stamina, Capacity, ???
We probably do want something other than Odinplate long term. Stigmar could maybe use Odinplate? Probably Thor for Abjorn (if we get him some at all, there are some issues there)...I dunno for Halla. Baldr? Thor as well?
There are ways to whittle down Armor faster. The Tricks get rid of more, and Threadcutter takes out 10 per action or thereabouts. Something for massive damage reducing it does seem reasonable, though.
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We were told the armor destroying tricks deal their full damage to an armors armor amount. Which we can easily pump into the 20s with some specific shifts and two handing sagaseeker. There are ways around armor as is - its having something to destroy armor with.
We just didn't use any in the first round because we didn't realize an owlbear would count as having an armor stat, though it seems obvious in retrospect.
If we had realized that, we could have demolished this things armor rating in two or three attacks.
That being said, armor is really good and Steel is even better with armor being good now. Steel weapons are so strong.
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I'm not clear on what Steel does in NQ2. I suspect in weapons it doubles Pierce and may reduce Resist or Armor, but I doubt it ignores them entirely. Steel Armor probably just gives Resist rather than Armor, since it cannot be changed, which is great.
Well yeah, but we entered the den with our demeanour kind of... at the risk of being funny, "armed for bear". The update even remarks on how the bear reacts to essentially a home invasion, which is partly what made me felt like my suspicion was confirmed here.
To be clear, I'm not trying to throw shade from the wonderful high horse of not having had to make a choice here - hindsight is 20/20 and I think it's entirely likely I'd have gone along with it too. There wasn't even an option presented to try and talk or be friendly - we arguably took the less hostile one by not killing it in its sleep. The fact that we were given that option at all, BTW, also feels significant here - it's a narrative reframing device.
Seems difficult to deescalate things now that it's lost a limb, but we'll see where we get to, I guess.
I mean, is that really true? It's convenient to have one suit of armour we wear all the time rather than two, but it's also convenient to be able to choose when we trigger our costly super-mode and when we don't.
And a steel plate harness should, just by its nature, provide pretty good protection; much better than an equivalent armour of mundane mail, although maybe not whatever bullshit Norse cultivators have going on with their runes or super craftsmanship or whatever. Depends how many of those bonuses could carry over even when the armour was in its "inactive" form. Reading this whole discussion is kind of making me confirm my initial feeling that the orthstirr-plate might be kind of a headache.