[X] Thank you for everything You did for me. For encouraging me even when it was abnormal. For teaching me even when it was frowned on. Without you there would be no Halla Sunshine, no Skyfire, Owl-Eyes, Longstride or any that is to come - not if there was not first Halla Steinnardotter. I will always walk knowing you taught me to. Find joy in Valhalla, and I shall see you when fate decrees, with tales to tell.
Sure, but every other thing we know about the world also supports it working how ours does for the most part except when magic gets involved. It's not impossible for all that to be wrong, but it's sure unlikely given what we've seen, and everything IF has ever said on the subject supports reality having a base state which culture and cultivation then effects.
Well, my own perspective on this is limited to saying:
"We know that the top-level physical phenomena a human being can see and examine without scientific instruments work more or less as we'd expect, but the underlying deep-level mechanics could be different and we wouldn't know."
Like, the speed of light could be infinite, or could be finite and defined relative to a luminiferous aether that is fixed so you can outrun light and relativity just falls out the window, to take one example.
Well, my own perspective on this is limited to saying:
"We know that the top-level physical phenomena a human being can see and examine without scientific instruments work more or less as we'd expect, but the underlying deep-level mechanics could be different and we wouldn't know."
Like, the speed of light could be infinite, or could be finite and defined relative to a luminiferous aether that is fixed so you c
an outrun light and relativity just falls out the window, to take one example.
It goes a bit deeper than that...per Discord discussion with IF, for example, Sunfire is as much hotter than Forgefire as the actual sun is than a forge. That's 'surface level' in a sense, but it's also a statement that only makes sense if the sun, in fact, works more or less how it does in the real world. A lot of Hugareida are similarly based on real world physical principles and have been strongly indicated to be able to do somewhat unintuitive things based on real world physics. Indeed, Hugareida are based on understanding the phenomenon in question, including the subtler parts of that based on real world science, at least from what we've seen.
Which is not to say you can't go faster than light...with the use of magic, you probably can. But there's still a speed of light, it's still the same, and you still need magic to do that.
It goes a bit deeper than that...per Discord discussion with IF, for example, Sunfire is as much hotter than Forgefire as the actual sun is than a forge.
....The actual SUN!? *googles* The forging temperature of steel is 950-1250°C. The surface of the Sun is 5,600°C. The core of the Sun is 15,000,000°C.
If we're using the "actual Sun" as a metric, then unless it's got some extreme limitations on size or duration, Sunfire feels like the "I win" Hugareida. We're talking "deep-frying a Threaded Elephant" or "glassing a village". Of course, given that our fight with Hooknail involved effecitvely shooting a meteor back out into space, then maybe it's less "this feels overpowered for the setting" and more "high-level cultivation is just that powerful."
....The actual SUN!? *googles* The forging temperature of steel is 950-1250°C. The surface of the Sun is 5,600°C. The core of the Sun is 15,000,000°C.
If we're using the "actual Sun" as a metric, then unless it's got some extreme limitations on size or duration, Sunfire feels like the "I win" Hugareida. We're talking "deep-frying a Threaded Elephant" or "glassing a village". Of course, given that our fight with Hooknail involved effecitvely shooting a meteor back out into space, then maybe it's less "this feels overpowered for the setting" and more "high-level cultivation is just that powerful."
Sunfire is apparently that ridiculous, yes. The same discussion warned of collateral damage and backlash if we miss with Sunfire stuff as well as really high costs, but it's gonna be wild.
Do we want to try taking some of Gotland's soil and plants with us back home, as a rememberance of sorts? Like, a potted 'this plant I took from Gotland, in Gotlandish soil'. Stuff like that. If we picked some Ash and Elm plants we could grow them as well. They would probably be nonmagical, but it would be really nice, emotionally speaking, to have something from Gotland.
Doing this could have no effects. It could have interesting effects. Maybe the soil and plants would disappear once the sun set.. so on and so forth.
It goes a bit deeper than that...per Discord discussion with IF, for example, Sunfire is as much hotter than Forgefire as the actual sun is than a forge. That's 'surface level' in a sense, but it's also a statement that only makes sense if the sun, in fact, works more or less how it does in the real world.
The sun doesn't need to run on hydrogen fusion moderated by the Standard Model of quantum mechanics to be very, very hot.
There was a period of time when it was widely believed that the sun was hot entirely because of its own gravitational potential energy. Competent 19th century physicists ran the numbers and believed that the sun could be (gasp) tens of millions of years old just from the time it would take to radiate that energy off!
Or there might be something more esoteric and bizarre going on.
Lord Kelvin: Atoms fusing? Esoteric and bizarre indeed! Witchcraft, I say! Harumph! [drops monocle]
A lot of Hugareida are similarly based on real world physical principles and have been strongly indicated to be able to do somewhat unintuitive things based on real world physics. Indeed, Hugareida are based on understanding the phenomenon in question, including the subtler parts of that based on real world science, at least from what we've seen.
Parts of "real world science" can exist and be valid without other parts, is what I'm saying.
Light existing, or light having properties such as refraction, does not inherently mean light has to be mediated through electricity plus also magnetism which is actually the relativistic correction to the electrostatic force, or through quantum electrodynamics as it became understood in the mid-1900s.
Which is not to say you can't go faster than light...with the use of magic, you probably can. But there's still a speed of light, it's still the same, and you still need magic to do that.
Of course, given that our fight with Hooknail involved effecitvely shooting a meteor back out into space, then maybe it's less "this feels overpowered for the setting" and more "high-level cultivation is just that powerful."
I mean, the highest-end cultivator battle we know did sink an island, and if cultivation world Gotland was roughly the same size as real Gotland, it's an island a hundred miles long.
Unless islands are particularly vulnerable to being sunk in this setting, like extraordinarily so, that means that the Steelfathers and Blackhand were slinging around nuclear-equivalent firepower. Even if they are thus vulnerable, it means something close to nuclear-equivalent firepower.
Sure, but the exact degree of hotness being the same as in the real world, and magic based on it being equally hot in regards to that number despite the users of the magic having no idea how hot that is, is fairly indicative.
To be clear, I'm not trying to pin IF down on this. I'm stating that all the evidence we have so far is strongly indicative that the world works more or less by real world physics when magic and cultivation are not directly involved and we should probably proceed on that assumption. That's my whole argument...not that it's impossible for that to be wrong, just that literally every piece of evidence we have supports there being basic physical principles which cultivation and magic are then layered on top of (and can bend or break).
Sure, but the exact degree of hotness being the same as in the real world, and magic based on it being equally hot in regards to that number despite the users of the magic having no idea how hot that is, is fairly indicative.
No, when asked on Discord 'how hot is Sunfire' IF responded with 'how hot is the sun?' and when real world answers were provided, said it was that hot. Indeed specifying that it was hotter than the outer layer. I wouldn't have brought it up if the answer was just 'really hot'. Specific numbers were, in fact, discussed.
Do we want to try taking some of Gotland's soil and plants with us back home, as a rememberance of sorts? Like, a potted 'this plant I took from Gotland, in Gotlandish soil'. Stuff like that. If we picked some Ash and Elm plants we could grow them as well. They would probably be nonmagical, but it would be really nice, emotionally speaking, to have something from Gotland.
Doing this could have no effects. It could have interesting effects. Maybe the soil and plants would disappear once the sun set.. so on and so forth.
I mean...culture can still alter that, probably even retroactively from what we've seen, it just mostly doesn't because most cultures accept basic physical principles rather than rejecting them wholesale. Culture can still warp and change everything, there's just a default for stuff the culture doesn't care about or hasn't considered.
Personally, I find that more interesting as it allows for things like alien cultivators, but to each their own.
Yeah, it's just that for me there's a certain interest and luster in the idea of "the world operates on recognizable laws, but they're different/simpler/and allow-disallow different things."
Fair enough. I still think there's a lot of evidence that the basic laws of physics apply absent cultivation stuff. That 'absent cultivation stuff' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, though.
Voting is now closed. It's time for a moment I've been waiting eagerly for : )
Scheduled vote count started by Imperial Fister on Nov 25, 2023 at 3:38 PM, finished with 84 posts and 26 votes.
[X] Thank you for everything You did for me. For encouraging me even when it was abnormal. For teaching me even when it was frowned on. Without you there would be no Halla Sunshine, no Skyfire, Owl-Eyes, Longstride or any that is to come - not if there was not first Halla Steinnardotter. I will always walk knowing you taught me to. Find joy in Valhalla, and I shall see you when fate decrees, with tales to tell.
[X] You were the best father any child could have asked for. I will try my best to honor your legacy and live a long and happy life, like you would have wanted. Rest well, we'll meet again when fate wills it.
-[X] If any of the other children want to say anything, now's the time.
[X] You were the best father any child could have asked for. Rest well, we'll meet again when fate wills it.
-[X] If any of the other children want to say anything, now's the time.
[X] You were the best father any child could have asked for. In the eyes of the Norns, I vow that I will avenge you. Now rest here awhile, until we meet again.
-[X] If any of the other children want to say anything, now's the time.
[X] Thank you for everything You did for me. For encouraging me even when it was abnormal. For teaching me even when it was frowned on. Without you there would be no Halla Sunshine, no Skyfire, Owl-Eyes, Longstride or any that is to come - not if there was not first Halla Steinnardotter. I will always walk knowing you taught me to. Find joy in Valhalla, and I shall see you when fate decrees, with tales to tell.
0~0~0
The waters down below crash against the shoreline in ever-more violent waves. Rocks and cliffs beat back the ocean's advance wherever it may come, but the seas have deep reserves to draw upon while the bones of the earth have only themselves. One day, the oceans will swallow all. One day, the waters will drown out the world.
But that day is not today.
Standing atop a cliff face, your heart and soul resembles the rioting waves far down below. You have to say the words. As the one who heard his death-song, it is your duty to fulfill Steinarr's last request. And yet...
How can you put words to your thoughts and feelings? How can you hope to define the undefinable? Fathom the unfathomable?
And yet, that's exactly what you'll have to do.
It is your duty and you will not be made a liar.
Not today, not ever.
Jaw tighter than a bandaged artery, you turn your burning, teary-eyed gaze to the setting horizon as its oranges, yellows, and reds fill the sky. Passing clouds glow with golden light as the sun lends them its strength. Wind runs fingers through your hair as it plays out behind you like a cloak of crimson.
"Dad," you take a deep breath and close your eyes, "thank you for every you did for me. For encouraging me, for teaching me, for guiding my path. Without you, without the Steinarr in Halla Steinarsdottir, there would be no Halla Sunshine, no Skyfire, Owl-Eyes, or even Longstride. This trail I walk was blazed by you. Find joy in Valhalla, for I shall see you with tales to tell."
Opening your eyes, you greet the setting sun as you pull the drawstring free. Upending the leather bag, its flaps flutter in the wind as the gray ashes fall free. A shower of ashen snow, they float out across the cliffside and descend upon the now respectfully-still oceans. Waves no higher than your palm gently lift and guide your father's remains to all corners of the land he called home.
Droplets of wet splash against your head and shoulders as Gotland weeps for a lost son. Clouds gather in the skies as a storm billows in from the horizon. Lightning strikes as thunder calls, an unwanted frown crossing your face as a sense of... danger rises from deep within.
Your heart beats like the hammer of Thor as dark shapes move beneath the waters. Growing ever larger, five figures breach the surface of the waves with weapons in hand and death in their eyes. Your soul chills as five Jotnar step foot on Gotland shores—the very land beneath your feet screams and trembles with fear.
Heklr smiles as he turns his head skyward, eyes locking with you from the beach far below, "I see your face, Halla Sunshine, I see the faces of those beside you."
"You've come for revenge." It's not a question, but a statement of fact.
"I have," Heklr nods as he runs a hand across a boulder on the shore. The boulder trembles at his touch, "This land of yours truly is beautiful," his fingers squeeze and rock turns to dust, the cliffside weeping at the lost son, "a shame, really, that my brothers and I will have to destroy it."
That horrid laughter fills your ears once again.
"You're pathetic," you spit, slightly surprised by the acidity of your words.
"Perhaps," Heklr shrugs as his brothers fan out, "but your opinion of me deserves little consideration, for who cares of the dead's thoughts?" As one, Heflr and his brothers push off the ground, burst through the air, and land atop the cliff—all in one casual motion. "Not a man among you could stop me!"
His laughter fills the sky as your children whimper with fear. Clinging to their father's legs, the sight of your children's terror-filled faces turns your once-trembling heart to Steel.
"It's a good thing, then," you spit as Sagaseeker purrs in your palm, "that I'm not a man."
Your words only draw snorts from the gathered monsters as your allies draw their weapons for what they know to be their final stand. Heklr shakes his head as he rests his axe on his shoulder, "A woman, a collection of whelps, and an old man are to be our foes?"
...Old man?
"That would be me," comes the familiar voice of kind-hearted Absalom as he lightly taps his staff against the ground, somehow standing right by your side in an instant. "My name is Absalom," he sends a warm smile your way as, though the odds are against you, you can't help but feel like it isn't as bad as it may seem, "but most know me by another name, that of," the staff of hickory spins around in his palm as he takes a win and a low, sweeping bow, "Careful-Stepper."
The Jotnar still at that name, their confidence draining from their bodies as quickly as they came upon these shores. Blackhand chuckles, speaking up for the first time since the Jotnar arrived, 'Absalom... How could I have forgotten your face?'
Looking around, your gathered allies stand with uncertainty in their bodies. They know not what to do, which falls to you to dictate. Glancing back at Careful-Stepper, something tells you that he's got this one handled, so you can focus your efforts on helping your friends and family get away.
What do you do?
[ ] Write in
0~0~0
AN: Not much to say here, other than that sometimes I wish this were a normal fiction rather than a Quest as I had this perfect ending envisioned, but it just doesn't work out in the Questing format.
Alas, such is life.
15-minute moratorium.
Oh, by the way, the names of Heklr's brothers are Bue, Buli, Jirr, and Ridikr
The Jotnar also slipped through the gap made for you by the Norns—the same as Absalom.
