To me it sounds like it might have been a spirit that followed Blackhand back from Finland and murdered and replaced our house-spirit.
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Keep the poem (+7 Orthstirr)
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Alright, would you guys like to OOC know the rules for making runes?
Obviously, Halla wouldn't know them in character, yet, but I figure that we might as well start thinking on it.
Obviously, Halla wouldn't know them in character, yet, but I figure that we might as well start thinking on it.
Yes, I'm always up for some lore and magic mechanics.
[X] Keep the poem (+7 Orthstirr)
keeping up Ort generation to empower us as we stride across the known world and conquer it! BWHAHAHA!
So many things to do, so little actions to do them with smh. haha thanks for the update man.
keeping up Ort generation to empower us as we stride across the known world and conquer it! BWHAHAHA!
So many things to do, so little actions to do them with smh. haha thanks for the update man.
Rules for Runes
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
First and foremost, you must understand that runes have no intrinsic power. There is nothing inherently magical about runes. You're not going to bring wealth to your house by simply carving fé into your door. That's not how this works.
However, words do have power. Doubly so when written down. Runes are a delivery method, a vehicle for magic, but they are not magic themselves. Though they are divine... in a sense, but that's not really relevant to this.
But before we can talk about the process of making a runic inscription, we must first talk about what makes one inscription stronger than another.
The Variables
Not all runic inscriptions are created equal.
The more 'permanent' and 'unchanging' the writing surface, the stronger the effect. Paper is near worthless for making inscriptions while a specially prepared boulder — a runestone — is perfect. Wood is the most common material runes are carved into, as it is both readily available and easy to work with. You could take your work knife and use it on the wood if you wanted to. This doesn't make it strong, but it does make it useful for recording dealings and 'I-O-U's.
The wording is also very important, potentially the most important part of making inscriptions. The more complicated the wording is, the stronger it will be. However, if it's too complicated it will be too vague and the effects will be unknowable. Much like poetry, runic inscriptions are puzzles. (for the love of gods old and new, please state the intended effects clearly for me. Having to puzzle my way through puzzle-poems isn't going to help my writing speed)
And speaking of puzzles, the Norse loved puzzles more than any old grandma could ever hope to. So much so that they would often make and hide codes in potentially stylistic flourishes, amongst other things. Oh, you thought those were just pictures of a boat? No! Those were runes in disguise! This too has an impact on the strength of a rune. The better hidden, the stronger the runes. (this doesn't really mean all that much mechanics-wise, as it's rather difficult to convey visual puzzles in a text-based story in a satisfying manner. However, I will try my best with what I have)
How good at reading you are is, in my opinion, the single most important part of inscribing runes. As Egill Skallagrímsson once said, "No man should carve runes unless he can read them well." How are you supposed to know that, in trying to ensnare their love, you didn't curse them with illness if you can't read what you wrote? A single misplaced comma can be the difference between sorrow and splendor.
There is a reason why acts of magic are called spells.
The Process
Now that that's out of the way, we can talk about the process by which runic inscriptions work.
Rule 1. They must be carved. Not painted, drawn, or stamped. Carved. Fortunately, Imaging covers this. If the runes are not carved into the material, it won't work. Why? Because of rule 2. Also because it's more permanent this way.
Rule 2. They must be colored. Blood is best for powerful magical workings, but paint is sufficient for all but the most major of actions. If the runes are not colored, then it won't work. And if there's nowhere for the color to fill (ie; carved out shapes) then it won't work either. Rule 2 only applies if the runes are meant to have any kind of effect. If they're just meant to record information, then you don't need to color them. In fact it's probably best you don't.
However, words do have power. Doubly so when written down. Runes are a delivery method, a vehicle for magic, but they are not magic themselves. Though they are divine... in a sense, but that's not really relevant to this.
But before we can talk about the process of making a runic inscription, we must first talk about what makes one inscription stronger than another.
The Variables
Not all runic inscriptions are created equal.
The more 'permanent' and 'unchanging' the writing surface, the stronger the effect. Paper is near worthless for making inscriptions while a specially prepared boulder — a runestone — is perfect. Wood is the most common material runes are carved into, as it is both readily available and easy to work with. You could take your work knife and use it on the wood if you wanted to. This doesn't make it strong, but it does make it useful for recording dealings and 'I-O-U's.
The wording is also very important, potentially the most important part of making inscriptions. The more complicated the wording is, the stronger it will be. However, if it's too complicated it will be too vague and the effects will be unknowable. Much like poetry, runic inscriptions are puzzles. (for the love of gods old and new, please state the intended effects clearly for me. Having to puzzle my way through puzzle-poems isn't going to help my writing speed)
And speaking of puzzles, the Norse loved puzzles more than any old grandma could ever hope to. So much so that they would often make and hide codes in potentially stylistic flourishes, amongst other things. Oh, you thought those were just pictures of a boat? No! Those were runes in disguise! This too has an impact on the strength of a rune. The better hidden, the stronger the runes. (this doesn't really mean all that much mechanics-wise, as it's rather difficult to convey visual puzzles in a text-based story in a satisfying manner. However, I will try my best with what I have)
How good at reading you are is, in my opinion, the single most important part of inscribing runes. As Egill Skallagrímsson once said, "No man should carve runes unless he can read them well." How are you supposed to know that, in trying to ensnare their love, you didn't curse them with illness if you can't read what you wrote? A single misplaced comma can be the difference between sorrow and splendor.
There is a reason why acts of magic are called spells.
The Process
Now that that's out of the way, we can talk about the process by which runic inscriptions work.
Rule 1. They must be carved. Not painted, drawn, or stamped. Carved. Fortunately, Imaging covers this. If the runes are not carved into the material, it won't work. Why? Because of rule 2. Also because it's more permanent this way.
Rule 2. They must be colored. Blood is best for powerful magical workings, but paint is sufficient for all but the most major of actions. If the runes are not colored, then it won't work. And if there's nowhere for the color to fill (ie; carved out shapes) then it won't work either. Rule 2 only applies if the runes are meant to have any kind of effect. If they're just meant to record information, then you don't need to color them. In fact it's probably best you don't.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Huh, that seems to imply the reason Sten's leery about Steel is because he's got to blend his own Blood and Orthstirr into it, which'll probably significantly weaken him for a good period of time--probably can't just flex that kind of sacrifice off like Norse can do normal wounds.
I'm suddenly reminded of Viking bone-steel. I, uh, hope Sten can use some spirit animal's bones instead of having to dig up one of our ancestors or like, sacrifice someone living for it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Born of Fire isn't that hardcore, is the thing. It's certainly good, but in the end it's probably not as good for advancement as having a good sparring partner is (+2 training dice is easily on par with its benefits most turns, and better if you haven't yet picked up any fire based hugareida). Its biggest effect is honestly making us more likely to get fire hugareida, which is nice but doesn't really help someone who doesn't have the resources to work at learning the tricks. Like, in terms of advantages passed onto our descendant, becoming extremely rich or a jarl or something and thus having more people around to train the kid is probably a bigger (if more transitory) advantage. It's a boon, but calling it a cheat boon is overselling it, I think.
Having Hallr in our head is the part that's ridiculous, cheat-y, and accumulative, and that part isn't nearly as easy to duplicate and seems to be one person per generation, not the whole family. Also, Hallr did some absurd stuff to get it...duplicating even the Born of Fire stuff is gonna involve God-level artifacts or the equivalent, I think. Not impossible, but not easy.
Probably not given the timeline. It could be Sten's enemies from Finland since he's got more recent history there, but I still think this is probably still Horra. It makes too much sense for it to be him.
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[X] Keep the poem (+7 Orthstirr)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Imperial Fister so, I have a few mechanics questions for post boss fight stuff. None are urgent, but all would be good to know:
#1: We can put non-hugareida tricks in the fylgja IIRC, and even many hugareida ones use combat pool...what determines its combat pool, is it just Command? Or does it just share ours with us? What if it's out on its own away from us, can it still use our combat pool or what?
#2: Does the fylgja need to borrow Skill-Tricks to use them? Like, say we get the Stealth Skill-Trick and want to send the fylgja scouting (or take it with us scouting, for that matter...ideally we'd both have it for that), does that work with us just having the trick, or do we need to put the trick in its capacity? I'd assume just having it is enough (unlike on non-skill tricks) but thought I'd check.
#3: Relatedly, what does the fylgja roll for things like scouting? I'd assume it either uses Command or our own stats, but which is it?
#4: Would mom's bonus to teaching us Housecraft also apply to learning Housecraft Tricks? Specifically, the Household Skill-Trick? Because we need that for real self-sufficiency in crafting and it seems like her bonus should apply to that.
#1: We can put non-hugareida tricks in the fylgja IIRC, and even many hugareida ones use combat pool...what determines its combat pool, is it just Command? Or does it just share ours with us? What if it's out on its own away from us, can it still use our combat pool or what?
#2: Does the fylgja need to borrow Skill-Tricks to use them? Like, say we get the Stealth Skill-Trick and want to send the fylgja scouting (or take it with us scouting, for that matter...ideally we'd both have it for that), does that work with us just having the trick, or do we need to put the trick in its capacity? I'd assume just having it is enough (unlike on non-skill tricks) but thought I'd check.
#3: Relatedly, what does the fylgja roll for things like scouting? I'd assume it either uses Command or our own stats, but which is it?
#4: Would mom's bonus to teaching us Housecraft also apply to learning Housecraft Tricks? Specifically, the Household Skill-Trick? Because we need that for real self-sufficiency in crafting and it seems like her bonus should apply to that.
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Kind of like if you learned it while at your first campfire, far from home on raiding?
Eternal_0bserver
(Unverified Bookworm)
- Location
- Earth, Northern Europe
Actually, didn't Abjorn get a pretty good sword, Wanderlust, from Halfdan? It's not necessarily as good as what Sten can do with steel, but I'd think a good shield or helmet would make more sense in the circumstances.
Computerprogramming = Magic
Is this 'not stamped' just about the 'use a formed tool to reproducibly applying ink/paint' kind of stamping (which wouldn't work because of not causing grooves to fill for rule 2) or also about the 'use a formed tool to reproducibly press down parts of the material you are working on' (think stamped metal, coin minting)?
The way it is written implies the first, but if the manual labour is ritualistic, it could also be the second.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Several factors leap to mind:
#1: Shields are disposable. Even if you made one out of pure metal (not something that almost ever occurred in the real world...most were basically plywood with metal reinforcing at the edges), their whole point is to get hit until they break. A good sword will last generations, a good shield lasts maybe two or three battles if you're lucky, and usually less. Going through several in one battle was pretty normal (holmgang, if I'm recalling correctly, often had limits on how many shields you could bring). So that's why not a shield. It's making a consumable rather than a permanent item.
#2: As for a helmet...per the crafting rules this is almost twice as much material (30 oz to 18 oz...both might be higher for Abjorn, due to the size of him, but presumably proportionally so)...which is probably about accurate percentage wise to real life (swords weighed 2-4 lbs and helmets often weighed twice that). Swords are surprisingly light and helmets are heavy. I also don't know exactly what a helmet does in this system (we should look into that at Asvir next time we go...we never got prices or stats on helmets), but I bet the difference between an iron and a steel one is less significant than between an iron and steel sword (Abjorn's current sword is +3d6, which is about standard for a Good quality one of decent materials...I'd be shocked if a steel one made by Sten isn't at least +6d6 and likely other cool stuff to boot).
#3: We don't know what steel actually does in the system or how it works with magic. It's plausible it's a lot more effective and relevant in terms of weapons than it is for non-plate armor. That's arguably true in real life depending on who you ask (at least until we start talking plate armor).
#4: Making armor and making weapons are completely separate skills in this system. I'm sure Sten has both of them, and at decent ratings, but his Weaponcraft being notably higher is not only plausible, but pretty likely. Which means the quality of a weapon he makes is likely notably higher than that of any armor would be.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Meanwhile, in Denmark
(yes yes, I know Norway also has these kinds of Nisse, but trust me, this is what 80% of Danes reading this thread will think of)
I think it has to do with the fact you only inherit a portion of ancestor's power, if you never surpass your parents, your children will have even less starting power than you did, it may even get to point where traits passed down to children lose their auto pass down but still give the rest of the benefits.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Command determines the complexity of orders that can be given in a turn — as you're splitting your attention between yourself and yourself-but-bird. You can either focus on human-you or bird-you. Your combat pool is split between bird and you.
Owls come with Stealth baked in. Otherwise you don't need to stick it in there.
Your own stuff
Yes, it does
The first, mostly. Mass-produced runes could never be as powerful as a uniquely created masterpiece.
The exchanging of swords (and or other weapons) is a marriage ritual. The groom's family gives the bride's family a sword (oftentimes dug up out of an ancestral barrow) and the bride's family gives the groom a sword. The sword given to the bride's family is, essentially, to make up for the lack of hands that the giving away of the daughter will create. The sword given to the groom is so that he can defend the family both very literally and also on the field of honor.
This, plus the social aspects. The more impressive your parents, the bigger the expectations placed on you will be. Failing to meet those, while not giving nid... isn't going to be generating much orthstirr, either.
Ok, so mass producing runes is possible (as long as they have grooves and those grooves are then painted), but less effective.
So mass produced explosive pottery to be used as arrow heads should be possible.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Voting will be called in an hour and a half
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Wait a second. Hold on here
...I'm an idiot. Whoops.
Guess we're calling it early then
...I'm an idiot. Whoops.
Guess we're calling it early then
Dang, it was so close!
Ryumancer
Dragons Are Romance
Regarding this whole chain of thought... It seems to me like a possible solution would basically be... well, clans and branch clans. As being named after a powerful and famous ancestor grants boons, it seems like you could do a thing where by properly sequencing named-after-ancestor boons and limiting them to one or two children per name per generation, you could generate a reputation for the lineage being Good At Thing and stack that with the 'traditional' named-after-ancestor thing. And... the more people you can get to marry into the family who themselves would be worth having their name passed down, or children who didn't get to inherit a name but did become powerful and famous, the more inheritances the clan has available to be passed down as boons, and can lead to branch clans becoming famous for Thing Adjacent to what the Main Clan is Good At.
Of course, this does rely on enough of the clan living up to expectations that the bloodline as a whole doesn't lose power in subsequent generations.
...Oh boy. I have a fair bundle from back when I was doing a rune mage for a Nasuverse RP way back when. I wonder how many would be usable here? Merkstave runes (runes that are inverted/rotated/etc to invert the meanings of that rune) are marked with / before the rune. The incantation chunks themselves can be kinda ignored because that's more of a Nasuverse thing and not a thing for this Quest, but they are composed of the meanings of each rune in-order, and thus, help define what the spell actually does.
Unfortunately, these were mostly designed as single-use spells and not permanent enchantments, though a few of them could be used as such anyways. Furthermore, I... appear to have lost a significant chunk of my rune compositions due to my younger self being an idiot and saving them by screenshot instead of actually writing them down. Naturally, those screenshots are dead now. Shame, I remember having a really fun setup for "Become Dragon Shape" and I don't recall whether I used Standa Ormslíki or Gøra Ormslíki for it.
ᚺᛚᛁᚾ = Hlín
"Trial of Renewal, Turn inward and wait for what is to come, Resist for the purpose of gaining strength"
Absorbs damage up to a threshold, then reflects the damage.
ᚦᛟᚱ = Thor
"Direct a force of destruction and defense with abundance, and make the correct move"
Area of effect energy attack (probably electrical, but could also be blunt force with a hammer, or a mixture of the two)
ᛏᛃᚱ = Tyr
"For victory, break through stagnancy and evolve!"
...This one is probably way too vague to be usable in-Quest.
ᚨᚢᚲᚨ = Auka (add; increase, augment; exceed, surpass)
"Bless a time of great energy and health, technical ability, and true vision"
effectively, HP + Stamina regen, and two accuracy buffs
/ᚲ/ᚨ/ᚱ/ᛗ/ᚨ = Karma
"False Hope, Misunderstanding, Stasis. Expect no help as you're manipulated by others!"
A curse! One intended to scale based on someone's negative Karma, but uh, probably not usable in this quest because Karma isn't exactly a Norse word.
ᛚᛁᛞ = lið (troops)
"Water, reinforce the power of change directed by my will!"
Water golems.
ᛊᚨᚠᚾᚨ = Safna (Gather/Collect)
"Wholeness and the power of words, with abundance, initiate change and harmonize."
This was... intended to be used in more complex arrays to gather energy and put it to whatever other use the array defined.
ᛊᚲᚨᛚᛗ = skálm
"Sword of Flame, harness the power of words and flow with skill."
Makes a sword out of fire. Fairly obvious. Probably something we can actually use in-Quest.
ᚷᛖᛁᛊᛚ =Geisl (Beam of light)
"Give movement and seek clarity, achieve my goal and succeed in travel."
Teleportation via beam of light.
"Trial of Renewal, Turn inward and wait for what is to come, Resist for the purpose of gaining strength"
Absorbs damage up to a threshold, then reflects the damage.
ᚦᛟᚱ = Thor
"Direct a force of destruction and defense with abundance, and make the correct move"
Area of effect energy attack (probably electrical, but could also be blunt force with a hammer, or a mixture of the two)
ᛏᛃᚱ = Tyr
"For victory, break through stagnancy and evolve!"
...This one is probably way too vague to be usable in-Quest.
ᚨᚢᚲᚨ = Auka (add; increase, augment; exceed, surpass)
"Bless a time of great energy and health, technical ability, and true vision"
effectively, HP + Stamina regen, and two accuracy buffs
/ᚲ/ᚨ/ᚱ/ᛗ/ᚨ = Karma
"False Hope, Misunderstanding, Stasis. Expect no help as you're manipulated by others!"
A curse! One intended to scale based on someone's negative Karma, but uh, probably not usable in this quest because Karma isn't exactly a Norse word.
ᛚᛁᛞ = lið (troops)
"Water, reinforce the power of change directed by my will!"
Water golems.
ᛊᚨᚠᚾᚨ = Safna (Gather/Collect)
"Wholeness and the power of words, with abundance, initiate change and harmonize."
This was... intended to be used in more complex arrays to gather energy and put it to whatever other use the array defined.
ᛊᚲᚨᛚᛗ = skálm
"Sword of Flame, harness the power of words and flow with skill."
Makes a sword out of fire. Fairly obvious. Probably something we can actually use in-Quest.
ᚷᛖᛁᛊᛚ =Geisl (Beam of light)
"Give movement and seek clarity, achieve my goal and succeed in travel."
Teleportation via beam of light.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think what Hallr did is common enough or easy enough to repeat to make this a thing in Norse society as a whole...we could do it if we get famous and powerful enough, but getting as powerful as Hallr is a very large ambition to have. Very large indeed.
It's also worth noting that Born of Fire appears to actually already be a bloodline thing not restricted to the name in question, which is worth noting in terms of inherited power. As I mention above it's not the most powerful bonus ever, but it's certainly a lot better than nothing, and as near as we can tell everyone in the family gets it.
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