NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Better idea, go for Semi-Halting Vortex, Sword Guards might not be able to stop the water, but Semi-Halting Vortex nails it as long as it's made of something physical.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This seems really risky at the high end. We're gonna gamble rolling 10d against 10d? I think that's a bad call. If they have Hamr 7-8 maybe, but not more.
EWC is not a defense and cannot be used as one by default. We need to combine it with an actual defense like Backstep. Which we should indeed do for our anti-AoE thing.
I'm pretty sure that's not the scale that IF is using, though we should probably ask, I guess. Like 20d is not what I would describe as 'weak' that's pretty standard at our level. You need way less than that to be considered weak.
Leaping Cleave leaves us completely vulnerable while we do it. Contested Movement probably keeps the victim from taking advantage, but vs. a pack it seems like a bad move. Skewer Flick is better in this situation and does only slightly less damage.
Semi-Halting auto-fails against anything that costs more Orthstirr than it has. That's not something I want to risk against elemental attacks (which may well cost the equivalent) unless we burn, like, 50 Orthstirr on it, and I'm not inclined to burn that on this, I don't think.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay, so, we have a bunch of questions we need answered before we can really make a good plan here, I think:
@Imperial Fister
1. How does Atgeir Counter Stab work?
2. What Dice Pool and Hamr do we think the wolves have?
3. What does 'weak' mean in terms of their defenses? Like, is 10d 'weak'? What about 20d? Because I hear weak and I think 'basic attacks are a valid option here' and am imagining under 10d each, but other people seem to have a very different impression.
@Imperial Fister
1. How does Atgeir Counter Stab work?
2. What Dice Pool and Hamr do we think the wolves have?
3. What does 'weak' mean in terms of their defenses? Like, is 10d 'weak'? What about 20d? Because I hear weak and I think 'basic attacks are a valid option here' and am imagining under 10d each, but other people seem to have a very different impression.
I feel that might have been true a while ago, but consider that it's a continually moving target. This tripped us up during the Gabriel fight, it was the only place where we misjudged the number of dice to use.
Like, the Shadow Bear, despite being disarmed and caught entirely by surprise, was throwing a 20d6 defence against our attacks when we caught up to it at the spring. (Actually closer to 21d6 if you divide the average of the scores by 3.5, but whatever.) If we want our attacks to hit, and I think there's no reason we don't want them to, then I think we want to aim to make them a bit stronger than our estimation of the enemy defence, so they reliably get through.
So if the wolves are in the 15d6-20d6 range, we want to be throwing at least 20d6, maybe a bit more. Also keep in mind the number of dice that Steinarr throws on his basic attacks; this isn't that much all things considered.
Hmmm, I was assuming Contested Movement keeps us safe full stop, but fair point.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Right, I'm not saying animals can't have powerful defenses, but under no circumstances would I call the 21 Hamr Bear 'weak', and our internal commentary certainly didn't either. These are being called 'weak', which to me says they're rolling, like, half the bear's dice at most. If they work the same way as the bear and are just rolling their Hamr for everything I definitely think we're talking 10d at most (plus Frenzy). Now, their attacks are not being called weak and might be higher, but I'm dubious of their defenses being better than that.
And they're being called 'weak' by Halla's own standards, so Steinarr's aren't relevant, I don't think.
Yeah, I'd rather not risk it.
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Our standard for a strong rolled defence is a 60d6 Sword Guard.
That's what I mean by this being relative.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No it isn't. That's a strong defense, but I'm pretty sure Halla would also describe a 40d6-45d6 defense as 'strong'...that's the level Steinarr was mostly using against us and his basic stuff is definitely still worth calling strong. There's also a long distance between 'strong' and 'weak' with mediocre in the middle...the Shadow-Bear was never described as 'weak' and it was rolling 21d6 on stuff. I think that means you need to be well below 20d6 before you start getting called 'weak'.
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Arisen!
For that reference, I'll confirm that wolves deal double damage.
You get attacked, it attacks back. You can use other atgeir tricks through it which does include Skewer Flick. Otherwise, it defaults to basic attacks.
Likely not beyond 25d6 individually. However, wolves are pack hunters in a way not too dissimilar to dwarves. Considerably less hamr then you have.
'Weak' in this instance means that they aren't putting much effort into defending themselves, instead they've put most of their eggs into attack.
Good sniffers, wolves have
Okay, so that's a smaller dice pool than I was imagining.
If they're putting more resources into attack, then I think that means they're putting 15-20d6 into offence, and 5-10d6 into offence.
So a 12d6 Basic Attack reliably gets through anything they have.
I think Deadman mean how do we put dice in it, and does it remain sitting around like our Atgier Bodyguard, or do we need to put more dice in for every counterattack?
If they're putting more resources into attack, then I think that means they're putting 15-20d6 into offence, and 5-10d6 into offence.
So a 12d6 Basic Attack reliably gets through anything they have.
I think Deadman mean how do we put dice in it, and does it remain sitting around like our Atgier Bodyguard, or do we need to put more dice in for every counterattack?
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
It sits around like bodyguard. You give it a pool of dice to work with as well as the amount of dice it can use in one go. Once it's out of dice, you need to re-summon it.
Why, yes, I did just revise how it worked.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Do the bonus dice from Hugareida add to the initial pool, or to the individual counterattacks?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I think IAT-locking down of one or more wolves will dramatically improve our odds here.
When we unleash a trick from a Fast, can we multitarget, or only single target?
I think we mostly need a good answer to big water attac ks, after that we can just spam the Contested-Stoker plan.
When we unleash a trick from a Fast, can we multitarget, or only single target?
I think we mostly need a good answer to big water attac ks, after that we can just spam the Contested-Stoker plan.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Individual counterattacks
- Pronouns
- He/Him
How durable is the summoned atgeir for purposes of Sharpen?
I mean, IAT does that better, I think.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Let's Try Stoker State
-[X] Before combat, de-assign Heated Shroud and assign Atgeir Counter-Stab
-[X] Invest 2 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting, 5 in Wildcraft (-16 Orthstirr)
-[X] 31d6 Attack (22d6 tricks)
-[X] 73d6 Defense (73d6 tricks)
-[X] 0d6 Intercept
-[X] Put 5 Orthstirr into 10 layers of Reinforce Shield before the combat begins (-5 Orthstirr) and Explosive-Reactive Armor (-9 Orthstirr) just in case
-[X] Activate Stage 3 Stoker State (-9 Orthstirr), Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr), and take to the air with Ember-Wing-Cloak (-6 Orthstirr, all numbers below include the +1d6 from Skyfire)
-[X] Put up a 75d6+9 (w/Hugareida) Orthstirr-Enhanced x5 Sword Guard (-15 Orthstirr) and activate an Atgeir Counter Stab (-16 Orthstirr) with a pool of 4d6 to attack those who attack us, using 13d6+5 (w/Hugareida) Sharpened x5 Basic Attacks to counterattack (-5 Orthstirr, -1d6 from pool each).
-[X] Open up with a 18d6+5 (w/Hugareida) Orthstirr-Enhanced x14 Inertia-Arresting Throw (-20 Orthstirr) to catch the wolf trying to flank us and use another identical one (also -20 Orthstirr) to trap any other wolves who join in beyond the two we know about already (or to trap the flanking one again if it gets free), or to stop any from escaping.
-[X] Make a total of three 24d6+5 Sharpenedx8 Lightning-Charged Stoking Strike attacks using 6 Stoker Dice, 3 Stoker Dice, and 0 Stoker Dice respectively (-15 Orthstirr each) to test out how those work and what different amounts of power into them do, following each of the three up with an instant follow-up Sharpened x4 (+8d6 on top of their free dice pool) Sword Strike (-12 Orthstirr each) and then proceed with nine 12d6+5 Sharpened x5 Lightning-Charged Basic Attacks (-6 Orthstirr each).
-[X] Against any melee attacks use Contested Movement to defend against them, adding one use of Fight of Our Life if we need to do so before we've made our first two Stoking Strikes (or otherwise need to do so without having Stoker Dice) and adding any Stoker State dice we possess after we've made said first two Stoking Strikes (-3 Orthstirr, 8d6+5, plus either 7d6 from Fight Of Our Life or Stoker State dice) and counterattacking with Sharpened Lightning-Charged Skewer-Flick attacks (-6 Orthstirr) and if that fails to defend us use Focus Guard (-14 Orthstirr) or Sidestep (-2 Orthstirr) as appropriate to avoid harm.
-[X] When not able to use Contested Movement or against ranged attacks use Sword Guard to defend against everything. In response to anything that gets through Sword Guard use Halting Vortex (-4 Orthstirr), and if something gets through that use up to five 75d6+9 Reinforcedx73 Sway defenses (-75 Orthstirr each).
-[X] Stoke Frami if our Orthstirr drops below 100 (+202 Orthstirr)
-[X] If targeted with an AoE too big to use Halting Vortex against, use Backstep combined with Ember-Wing Cloak to dodge (-15 Orthstirr total for both of them).
-[X] Tactics – So the idea here is to put up a big defense (suitable for stopping three or four wolves adding their attacks together), trap one wolf, then move into melee and kill at least one other while the first one is trapped, and then finish off the remaining one or two. This plan also involves a lot of counterattacking with both Atgeir Counter Stab and Contested Movement as double-counterattacking is also a very solid tactic. We definitely move on to attacking other wolves after we finish off our three if that becomes a viable option, though we'll try not to actually kill-steal (ie: killing wolves attacking someone else is fine, killing wolves they are attacking is less so).
So, we need to try out Stoking Strike sometime, and this seems like a good opportunity (it also tries out various other tactics we don't use all that much). Other than that, this is basically lots of basic attacks and counterattacks. The Atgeir Counter-Stab is a trifle tentative until we know how durable it is for purposes of Sharpen, but it'd just move a few dice around to get more or less attacks with that.
EDIT: Fixed a minor dice issue, added Fight Of Our Life to Contested Movement if we need to use it without Stoker Dice.
-[X] Before combat, de-assign Heated Shroud and assign Atgeir Counter-Stab
-[X] Invest 2 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting, 5 in Wildcraft (-16 Orthstirr)
-[X] 31d6 Attack (22d6 tricks)
-[X] 73d6 Defense (73d6 tricks)
-[X] 0d6 Intercept
-[X] Put 5 Orthstirr into 10 layers of Reinforce Shield before the combat begins (-5 Orthstirr) and Explosive-Reactive Armor (-9 Orthstirr) just in case
-[X] Activate Stage 3 Stoker State (-9 Orthstirr), Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr), and take to the air with Ember-Wing-Cloak (-6 Orthstirr, all numbers below include the +1d6 from Skyfire)
-[X] Put up a 75d6+9 (w/Hugareida) Orthstirr-Enhanced x5 Sword Guard (-15 Orthstirr) and activate an Atgeir Counter Stab (-16 Orthstirr) with a pool of 4d6 to attack those who attack us, using 13d6+5 (w/Hugareida) Sharpened x5 Basic Attacks to counterattack (-5 Orthstirr, -1d6 from pool each).
-[X] Open up with a 18d6+5 (w/Hugareida) Orthstirr-Enhanced x14 Inertia-Arresting Throw (-20 Orthstirr) to catch the wolf trying to flank us and use another identical one (also -20 Orthstirr) to trap any other wolves who join in beyond the two we know about already (or to trap the flanking one again if it gets free), or to stop any from escaping.
-[X] Make a total of three 24d6+5 Sharpenedx8 Lightning-Charged Stoking Strike attacks using 6 Stoker Dice, 3 Stoker Dice, and 0 Stoker Dice respectively (-15 Orthstirr each) to test out how those work and what different amounts of power into them do, following each of the three up with an instant follow-up Sharpened x4 (+8d6 on top of their free dice pool) Sword Strike (-12 Orthstirr each) and then proceed with nine 12d6+5 Sharpened x5 Lightning-Charged Basic Attacks (-6 Orthstirr each).
-[X] Against any melee attacks use Contested Movement to defend against them, adding one use of Fight of Our Life if we need to do so before we've made our first two Stoking Strikes (or otherwise need to do so without having Stoker Dice) and adding any Stoker State dice we possess after we've made said first two Stoking Strikes (-3 Orthstirr, 8d6+5, plus either 7d6 from Fight Of Our Life or Stoker State dice) and counterattacking with Sharpened Lightning-Charged Skewer-Flick attacks (-6 Orthstirr) and if that fails to defend us use Focus Guard (-14 Orthstirr) or Sidestep (-2 Orthstirr) as appropriate to avoid harm.
-[X] When not able to use Contested Movement or against ranged attacks use Sword Guard to defend against everything. In response to anything that gets through Sword Guard use Halting Vortex (-4 Orthstirr), and if something gets through that use up to five 75d6+9 Reinforcedx73 Sway defenses (-75 Orthstirr each).
-[X] Stoke Frami if our Orthstirr drops below 100 (+202 Orthstirr)
-[X] If targeted with an AoE too big to use Halting Vortex against, use Backstep combined with Ember-Wing Cloak to dodge (-15 Orthstirr total for both of them).
-[X] Tactics – So the idea here is to put up a big defense (suitable for stopping three or four wolves adding their attacks together), trap one wolf, then move into melee and kill at least one other while the first one is trapped, and then finish off the remaining one or two. This plan also involves a lot of counterattacking with both Atgeir Counter Stab and Contested Movement as double-counterattacking is also a very solid tactic. We definitely move on to attacking other wolves after we finish off our three if that becomes a viable option, though we'll try not to actually kill-steal (ie: killing wolves attacking someone else is fine, killing wolves they are attacking is less so).
So, we need to try out Stoking Strike sometime, and this seems like a good opportunity (it also tries out various other tactics we don't use all that much). Other than that, this is basically lots of basic attacks and counterattacks. The Atgeir Counter-Stab is a trifle tentative until we know how durable it is for purposes of Sharpen, but it'd just move a few dice around to get more or less attacks with that.
EDIT: Fixed a minor dice issue, added Fight Of Our Life to Contested Movement if we need to use it without Stoker Dice.
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- Location
- San Ramon, CA
[X] Plan Let's Try Stoker State
Blinks
You mean, like, in universe because we're cultivators, or also IRL?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They have much lower Hamr than us and we can't use only some Stoker State dice on Contested Movement so our initial 15 are largely wasted if we put them all into one Contested Movement (it adds +15 dice, but anything beyond +6 or so is wasted...even +6 may be excessive). Also, those aren't on normal attacks, they're on Stoking Strikes which are explicitly powered up by putting more Stoker State dice into it, and I'd like to know how much it powers it up and what the damage is.
It's an experiment to determine how Stoking Strike works.
That one's true in real life, IIRC. Their horses weren't super well suited to cavalry and a lot of their battles were them going somewhere on a boat anyway, so them bringing horses was awkward.
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- Location
- some computer lab
[X] Plan Let's Try Stoker State
They didn't only have access to their native horses, though, and often fought amongst themselves, or carved out space in foreign lands (like Russia or England). If they saw rival warriors riding about, did they just never…?