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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)

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Omniatrix said:
No no no, the truth is just the setup for the proper lie here - that this was the result of meddling on the part of moderate members of the HCC as opposed to an actual attack from the CIS. We just can't say the lie up front. We have to plant all the evidence first. It's like a normal lie, just with more steps, which is totally in Ciaran's wheelhouse.
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Technically, our initial response would be entirely true: Admiral Trench went off the reservation, and we received advanced warning from a high-level member of the CIS government. The lie is one of omission -- we don't mention our source was Dooku.

At that point, it's up to Palpatine (and his patsies in the CIS) to investigate and figure out who the source was, while we plant evidence and drop hints to lead them to the wrong conclusion. My preference would be to pin the blame on give credit (for the heads-up, not the attack) to the HCC, for the reasons I give above. It'd probably take an Intrigue action next turn if we want to ensure Palpatine takes the bait, but Intrigue actions are a lot more affordable than Diplomacy actions at this point.
 
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Publicola said:
Technically, our initial response would be entirely true: Admiral Trench went off the reservation, and we received advanced warning from a high-level member of the CIS government. The lie is one of omission -- we don't mention our source was Dooku.

At that point, it's up to Palpatine (and his patsies in the CIS) to investigate and figure out who the source was, while we plant evidence and drop hints to lead them to the wrong conclusion. My preference would be to pin the blame on give credit (for the heads-up, not the attack) to the HCC., for the reasons I give above. It'd probably take an Intrigue action next turn if we want to ensure Palpatine takes the bait, but Intrigue actions are a lot more affordable than Diplomacy actions at this point.
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Can't we even add a little lie?
 
Omniatrix said:
No no no, the truth is just the setup for the proper lie here - that this was the result of meddling on the part of moderate members of the HCC as opposed to an actual attack from the CIS. We just can't say the lie up front. We have to plant all the evidence first. It's like a normal lie, just with more steps, which is totally in Ciaran's wheelhouse.
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Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Continue.
 
Publicola said:
Okay, hear me out, I just had a crazy idea for a write-in.

Palpatine is a grade-A certified master manipulator, right? Sith Lord, his every word is a lie, all that rot. Have we ever considered, just... telling the truth?

Fact #1: Admiral Trench was in charge of Separatist military assets
Fact #2: Admiral Trench went rogue, and was no longer responding to orders from Dooku or the Separatist Council
Fact #3: We were warned of this invasion by Dooku certain unnamed sympathetic voices within the Separatist government
Fact #4: This attack showed all the signs of a false-flag set-up, trying to draw the CNS into armed conflict

Easy peasy. Now Palpatine is on the look-out for parties unknown within the CIS who defied his and/or Dooku's orders. Specifically, he'd probably order Dooku to investigate -- Republic Intelligence has been defanged, so he may not have assets of his own to do the job. At that point, we could pin the blame on whatever group is most convenient to us. Perhaps we might credit the Commerce Guild, seeing as we ousted Shu Mai and replaced her with one of our associates (SoroSuub will probably be joining Neutral Space in the near future, after all). Or we might plant evidence that the leak came from the Corporate Alliance, one of the few megacorps in the CIS that we don't have in our pocket.

Or, better yet, we could blame the Hyper-Communications Cartel. Frankly, looking at the wiki, the HCC look perfect for our purposes.
  • They're another CIS megacorp we don't have in our pocket
  • They're responsible for broadcasting Separatist propaganda via the CIS Shadowfeed (the Corporate Alliance owns the hardware for the Shadowfeed, but the HCC determines the content).
  • Their headquarters are located on the planet of Ando, next door to Admiral Trench's homeworld of Secundus Ando.
  • The HCC is staffed by Aqualish, who are distantly related to the Harch (Trench's species). Notably, the Aqualish and the Harch don't get along.
  • The Ando sector was absolutely ravaged 30 years before by the Andoan Civil War, when Admiral Trench won his stripes by defeating the Andoan Free Worlds in battle. Plenty of time for local resentments to build up, and for Aqualish sympathizers to infiltrate the HCC.
  • Ando was one of the first sectors to join the Separatist movement, specifically because the Republic intervened in their Civil War and forced the entire sector to demilitarize. Why did the Republic intervene? Because Admiral Trench was so reckless, ruthless, and brutal in the final Battle of Raquish (going out of his way to target Andoan civilians and non-combatants), that the Republic felt obligated to step in and impose peace on the Andoan government.
Basically: Admiral Trench is a military hero to the general public of Ando, but his excesses were directly responsible for the unsatisfactory end to the war, in the eyes of the Andoan government and upper class. His tactical success was in fact a strategic blunder, and the governing elite know it.

If Po Nudo or other high-level members of the HCC had discovered Admiral Trench bent on making the same farking error that he made in the last war, it's certainly plausible that they'd reach out to try to mitigate the fallout. Plant evidence that this actually occurred, and the HCC will either moderate its propaganda (making it easier to recruit them for the CNS down the road) or devour itself in a bloody purge of any moderate voices (making it easier for our new media network to establish itself while its main competitor is distracted).
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I've heard you out, and I agree, just format this into a vote.
 
[] "'This brutal and unprovoked attack was committed with a Separatist fleet, yes, but this was not a Separatist attack. We were warned by a high-level source within the CIS government, that Admiral Trench had gone rogue and was no longer responding to commands from the Separatist Council or Parliament. It was because of that warning that we were able to prepare for and defeat Trench's attack here on Kalee. It is not clear whose orders Trench was following, but we are confident they did not come from the Confederacy of Independent Systems.' We take a strong stand, laying no blame on the CIS and using our media outlets to tamp down on the calls for war, while we dangle bait in front of Palpatine by revealing that we have allies and assets within the Separatist government. That way, he'll have to commit some of his agents to investigate the leak, while we plant evidence and lead them by the nose to the wrong conclusion."

@ everyone, this sound good?
 
Why mention that the source is high-level? It might narrow down the scope of what Palpatine would have to sort through before he can find out it's Dooku.
 
What if we say a high level source in the republic informed us that a high level source in the CIS had told them all that about Trench .....

It's the most confusing argument, therefore the best.
 
UbeOne said:
Why mention that the source is high-level? It might narrow down the scope of what Palpatine would have to sort through before he can find out it's Dooku.
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I figured, blaming a low-level contact within the HCC would have little to no effect on the Separatist government (and it's not clear how a 'low level' anything could have gotten the information about Trench in the first place). If we want to upset the apple cart, we should aim for the top -- if not Po Nudo himself, then at least one of his top aides (or the Andoan senator, or one of their staff, with ties to the HCC).

Plus, it reinforces the message that the attack did not originate from the CIS government. A 'low level' informant might just be a whistleblower in CYA mode, or giving the CIS plausible deniability. A 'high-level' informant indicates to the galaxy (and especially to the Neutral systems that are braying for war) that the CIS government was aware that Trench had gone rogue, and was not happy about it.

Dark as Silver said:
What if we say a high level source in the republic informed us that a high level source in the CIS had told them all that about Trench .....
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Ironically, this is even a little bit true:
Dr. Snark said:
Lady Ciaran,

Our people have received word that Admiral Trench has taken a significant fleet with him and gone completely dark, and all of our efforts to track him have so far failed. While under normal circumstances I would expect him to strike at a Republic world recent events have led both myself and Commander Tano to believe that he has been ordered to strike at a Council world given our interference with the Jedi Acts and presumably other actions on your part. Regrettably we can provide no other information aside from that - we will do whatever we can to locate him but I would recommend that you expect the worst. Trench is an incredibly devious being and there is no telling what his plans may be.
...
-Wullf Yularen
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But we really don't want to draw attention to our allies and assets within the Republic military. Much better to draw attention to our Separatist sources, so Palpatine has to worry about losing control over his puppet rebellion, and so the megacorp baddies tear themselves apart.
 
Publicola said:
Technically, our initial response would be entirely true: Admiral Trench went off the reservation, and we received advanced warning from a high-level member of the CIS government. The lie is one of omission -- we don't mention our source was Dooku.

At that point, it's up to Palpatine (and his patsies in the CIS) to investigate and figure out who the source was, while we plant evidence and drop hints to lead them to the wrong conclusion. My preference would be to pin the blame on give credit (for the heads-up, not the attack) to the HCC, for the reasons I give above. It'd probably take an Intrigue action next turn if we want to ensure Palpatine takes the bait, but Intrigue actions are a lot more affordable than Diplomacy actions at this point.
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It actually makes a fair amount of sense that it couldn't be Dooku- cause it kinda wasn't. Yeah, he gave us a hint that he had no clue where Trench was, but that's why Palpatine won't think it's him, because Palpatine never told Dooku where Trench was going, we had to figure that out ourselves. However, with Dooku not able to give them order, that means Palpatine likely would have had a secure line to send his orders to Trench. And since he's got the Communications Cartel under his thumb, he'd probably use their channels to make it happen, except now it looks like his lines might not be secure. It's a good way to deflect and get him to waste time/resources looking into it, while we make our moves.

18scsc said:
With another 2-3 turns to consolidate power and convince Dooku and Anakin to fully buy into our conspiracy we will have a solid chance of beating Palpatine short of a major curveball.
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I'm not sure we should wait that long. Anakin is pretty much already in, and we've cleared everything Dooku needs to join us. With everything we've managed this turn, we'll likely see a huge jump in our chance when the next turn voting comes around. If we leave it for too long, Palpatine is going to activate Order 66 (which is really bad). The war is already nearing it's end, Palpatine doesn't have much reason to further the fighting at this point. His power has been consolidated, the Senate and people love him (despite the well known mishaps of some of his agents, he's been looking good), and a lot of the Separatist forces have been defeated by this point. I think we could take one more round to get everything ready, but after that we might really want to consider pressing the button, even if there's still a fair degree of risk involved.
 
Blueshift said:
I'm not sure we should wait that long. Anakin is pretty much already in, and we've cleared everything Dooku needs to join us. With everything we've managed this turn, we'll likely see a huge jump in our chance when the next turn voting comes around. If we leave it for too long, Palpatine is going to activate Order 66 (which is really bad). The war is already nearing it's end, Palpatine doesn't have much reason to further the fighting at this point. His power has been consolidated, the Senate and people love him (despite the well known mishaps of some of his agents, he's been looking good), and a lot of the Separatist forces have been defeated by this point. I think we could take one more round to get everything ready, but after that we might really want to consider pressing the button, even if there's still a fair degree of risk involved.
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Above all else, we need to use these preparation turns to have Ciaran master at least 1 saber style, and at least 2 combat-based Force powers. Remember: for all her experience, she is still only adept in Soresu and Makashi, and her Force powers are usually either based on utility or stealth, with the exception of Blazing Chains, which is still highly ineffective against Sith or Force users in general. We don't even know Force Drain, Force Lightning/Electric Judgement, Force Choke, or Force Fire.
 
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XenonPrime said:
Don't forget the Force Wound on Coruscant, the Jedi Council, and thus Mace Windu, aren't reliable for an attack anymore.
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While no longer 100% reliable, I'm sure we could take advantage of the paranoia and fear to get some kind of response from the Corusant Jedi, ideally synchronized to when we off Palpatine.
Even if they act without restraint and get Unlimited Powered like flies, better them than our characters.

Better they die unsung heroes to the galaxy than mutilated husks of the force.
 
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*Reads through everything*
Allright, I have two things to say:
1. YAY! An update!
2. As always, when in doubt vote for Publicolas plans. Total mastermind.
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
Above all else, we need to use these preparation turns to have Serras master at least 1 saber style, and at least 2 combat-based Force powers. Remember: for all her experience, she is still only adept in Soresu and Makashi, and her Force powers are usually either based on utility or stealth, with the exception of Blazing Chains, which is still highly ineffective against Sith or Force users in general. We don't even know Force Drain, Force Lightning/Electric Judgement, Force Choke, or Force Fire.
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Serras? Did you mean Ciaran? I don't think we should focus too much on trying to make her good enough to 1v1 Palpatine. She's a good fighter but Palpatine is going to be beat by us out planning him and taking him down with other powerful fighters. I don't think there's any way we have the time to master the skills you're proposing.

XenonPrime said:
Don't forget the Force Wound on Coruscant, the Jedi Council, and thus Mace Windu, aren't reliable for an attack anymore.
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I haven't forgotten about it, I just never really felt we needed to rely on them too much anyways. We already have some masters and powerful Jedi on our side and in the know. The council being more unreliable hurts, but I don't see any quick fixes to the problem at the moment (or pretty much any idea how to fix it) and waiting so long to save them that Order 66 gets initiated is a bad plan.
 
Blueshift said:
Serras? Did you mean Ciaran? I don't think we should focus too much on trying to make her good enough to 1v1 Palpatine. She's a good fighter but Palpatine is going to be beat by us out planning him and taking him down with other powerful fighters. I don't think there's any way we have the time to master the skills you're proposing.
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Autocorrect was being quite annoying. Anyway, I'm not expecting Ciaran to be able to beat Sidious in a 1v1, but she should at least be able to survive him for a time. In case he catches wind of this or survives the assassination attempt, I want Ciaran to be able to at least bring it to a draw with herself and Asajj or Dooku.
 
Publicola said:
Okay, hear me out, I just had a crazy idea for a write-in.

Palpatine is a grade-A certified master manipulator, right? Sith Lord, his every word is a lie, all that rot. Have we ever considered, just... telling the truth?

Fact #1: Admiral Trench was in charge of Separatist military assets
Fact #2: Admiral Trench went rogue, and was no longer responding to orders from Dooku or the Separatist Council
Fact #3: We were warned of this invasion by Dooku certain unnamed sympathetic voices within the Separatist government
Fact #4: This attack showed all the signs of a false-flag set-up, trying to draw the CNS into armed conflict

Easy peasy. Now Palpatine is on the look-out for parties unknown within the CIS who defied his and/or Dooku's orders. Specifically, he'd probably order Dooku to investigate -- Republic Intelligence has been defanged, so he may not have assets of his own to do the job. At that point, we could pin the blame on whatever group is most convenient to us. Perhaps we might credit the Commerce Guild, seeing as we ousted Shu Mai and replaced her with one of our associates (SoroSuub will probably be joining Neutral Space in the near future, after all). Or we might plant evidence that the leak came from the Corporate Alliance, one of the few megacorps in the CIS that we don't have in our pocket.

Or, better yet, we could blame the Hyper-Communications Cartel. Frankly, looking at the wiki, the HCC look perfect for our purposes.
  • They're another CIS megacorp we don't have in our pocket
  • They're responsible for broadcasting Separatist propaganda via the CIS Shadowfeed (the Corporate Alliance owns the hardware for the Shadowfeed, but the HCC determines the content).
  • Their headquarters are located on the planet of Ando, next door to Admiral Trench's homeworld of Secundus Ando.
  • The HCC is staffed by Aqualish, who are distantly related to the Harch (Trench's species). Notably, the Aqualish and the Harch don't get along.
  • The Ando sector was absolutely ravaged 30 years before by the Andoan Civil War, when Admiral Trench won his stripes by defeating the Andoan Free Worlds in battle. Plenty of time for local resentments to build up, and for Aqualish sympathizers to infiltrate the HCC.
  • Ando was one of the first sectors to join the Separatist movement, specifically because the Republic intervened in their Civil War and forced the entire sector to demilitarize. Why did the Republic intervene? Because Admiral Trench was so reckless, ruthless, and brutal in the final Battle of Raquish (going out of his way to target Andoan civilians and non-combatants), that the Republic felt obligated to step in and impose peace on the Andoan government.
Basically: Admiral Trench is a military hero to the general public of Ando, but his excesses were directly responsible for the unsatisfactory end to the war, in the eyes of the Andoan government and upper class. His tactical success was in fact a strategic blunder, and the governing elite know it.

If Po Nudo or other high-level members of the HCC had discovered Admiral Trench bent on making the same farking error that he made in the last war, it's certainly plausible that they'd reach out to try to mitigate the fallout. Plant evidence that this actually occurred, and the HCC will either moderate its propaganda (making it easier to recruit them for the CNS down the road) or devour itself in a bloody purge of any moderate voices (making it easier for our new media network to establish itself while its main competitor is distracted).
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Publicola, I think this qualifies you for the Ciaran Medal Of Truly Outrageous Sneaky Shenaniganry. Wear it with pride. I'll vote for it. :D
 
Nicholas Brooks said:
Autocorrect was being quite annoying. Anyway, I'm not expecting Ciaran to be able to beat Sidious in a 1v1, but she should at least be able to survive him for a time. In case he catches wind of this or survives the assassination attempt, I want Ciaran to be able to at least bring it to a draw with herself and Asajj or Dooku.
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Blueshift said:
Serras? Did you mean Ciaran?
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Nicholas Brooks said:
Autocorrect
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Autocorrect? Sure I know your in that quest too just remember the guy with ridiculous plz-nerf powers trying to become emperor of the galaxy with a pro-human bias is the BAD guy here.
 
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XenonPrime said:
Don't forget the Force Wound on Coruscant, the Jedi Council, and thus Mace Windu, aren't reliable for an attack anymore.
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Except for Yoda who keeps on going off world because he knows something is wrong but is not sure. And honestly, Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan is a very solid strike force by themselves. Then add Ciaran and Asajj plus Vos. Meanwhile Ahoska and the Walkers can hold off any acolytes of Palpatine (and HK-47 would be very useful here as well).
 
i really just want to send HK on say a clean up mission hitting targets of opportunity.
give him an open ended mission and just let him do things!

not totally sure if that would help long term but it keep him working and somewhat happy.
and who knows what kind of interesting ppl would go "missing"
 
Blueshift said:
I'm not sure we should wait that long. Anakin is pretty much already in, and we've cleared everything Dooku needs to join us. With everything we've managed this turn, we'll likely see a huge jump in our chance when the next turn voting comes around. If we leave it for too long, Palpatine is going to activate Order 66 (which is really bad). The war is already nearing it's end, Palpatine doesn't have much reason to further the fighting at this point. His power has been consolidated, the Senate and people love him (despite the well known mishaps of some of his agents, he's been looking good), and a lot of the Separatist forces have been defeated by this point. I think we could take one more round to get everything ready, but after that we might really want to consider pressing the button, even if there's still a fair degree of risk involved.
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Not really.
The thing is that Palps cannot afford to Stop the War at this point.

When he activated the order 66 he did it because he had troops in every planet and the local population was too battered to resist.

In this case, he has basically the whole galactic Rim unified, getting stronger and which was basically untouched by the war. The CNS is too powerful to for an easy victory, and that is what he wants, plus literally, every Jedi survivor would flee to the CNS, making the Order 66 significantly less effective and creating basically thousands of Exiled Jedi ready to take Coruscant back

So no I don´t think we are on tight schedule here I think our best option is to wait as much as possible while we try to get Assets, and if we can do it in 5 turn good, if we can do it in 7 even better and so on.
 
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