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May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)

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Andres110 said:
I don't understand why people are so averse to the idea of playing a bad person. That's the only reason I can think of for why people try to justify some of the things Ciaran has done. I have seen people seriously argue that "Doing bad things to people isn't evil if it makes you happy" just so they can say that Ciaran isn't a bad person. It is the definition of denialist.
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But we aren't playing as a bad person, we are playing as an Ayn Rand protagonist.
 
ThoughtMaster said:
But we aren't playing as a bad person, we are playing as an Ayn Rand protagonist.
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Ayn Rand probably isn't the best comparison (believed Native Americans didn't have the right to live in America just because they were born there), Ciaran's more like a pre-fall Andrew Ryan (keeping a colourful cast of characters together by sheer presence, charisma and generous paycheques).
 
MonkeyTypewriter said:
She's complex, and trying to pidgin hole her as a "good" or bad guy is doing a disservice. She is hardly pure as driven snow, but your insistence that she's fundamentally a criminal is mistaken. She was originally a criminal yes, and certainly likes money. But she's never been involved in the slave trade, selling heavy narcotics like death-sticks or prostitution.
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No, she just sticks to blackmail and murder mostly, with a side business in war profiteering.
 
In terms of Ciaran's sense of values/morals, I think of her as being similar to Darth Vectivus in that regard.

Think ruthless, pragmatic businessperson, who takes good care of her employees, and has lines that she won't cross.
 
Incidentally, would anyone be interested in a post Order 66 Quest that is a lot of things, except a fun filled curbstomp of the setting like this good, old Quest? At least once I managed to figure out SOME kind off system for the quest.

*may or may not have played XCOM 2 a bit too much*
 
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Teron said:
Incidentally, would anyone be interested in a post Order 66 Quest that is a lot of things, except a fun filled curbstomp of the setting like this good, old Quest? At least once I managed to figure out SOME kind off system for the quest.

*may or may not have played XCOM 2 a bit too much*
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UbeOne said:
Sounds cool.
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Renars said:
*Interest intensifies*
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If you want an idea, you could revive/rework the abandoned Moff Quest.
 
Andres110 said:
She doesn't care that much. Remember, she was and is still a criminal at heart. She has lines she won't cross but those lines aren't "hurt innocent people for nothing more than personal profit". She prefers making profit by helping people but her priority is still on making profit, so if she had to choose between not hurting an innocent person and making a profit, she'd choose the latter every single time. Ciaran is not good. Themes of "it was for the greater good" should not apply to her. Don't try and post-facto justify her actions just because you can't stomach the thought that your PC is actually a bad guy.
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Have you ever met or read about a bad person who thought that they were bad?

As it happens, I agree that Ciaran is by any objective measure an evil person. I disagree that she would see herself as an evil person though.

Publicola said:
the 'incredibly minor narcotic that's legal to sell' variety (cf. marijuana, at least if you're in certain US states; alcohol might be a better analogy).
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And yet, look at what prohibition unleashed in the US. Not only in terms of the criminal enterprises it fed, but also in terms of the unhealthy consumption habits people adopted in reaction to the new situation.

Teron said:
Darra is a terrible person to use for comparisions in this case. In canon she has been dead for several years by now.
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Hah! Well that is ironic.

Floom said:
Okay. Some people don't see it that way. And that's probably why it seems so weird. After all, we only have one pair of eyes with which we can look at things with. Some people don't think that what Ciaran does is bad. Some people think it's somewhere in between. Some people think it's bad. Admittedly, that same controversy is likely part of why people like Ciaran's character. It's a complex moral situation portrayed well in writing, that doesn't come with it's own judgement on what's good or bad. That's a rare thing to read. Kudos to Dr. Snark, for that sort of characterization.
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Really? 'Cuz since Dr. Snark took over I have felt that the moral ambiguity of Ciaran has been rather neglected.

Whumbly said:
Objectivism (the ideology most known by playing Bioshock because the books are too dry) says that people don't give money because it's the right thing to do, we do it because it gives us this warm fuzzy feeling inside called happiness. It makes us feel as though we fulfilled so karmic quota so that we can do a bad thing later on. Ciaran's selfishness might be responsible for some bad things, but it's also responsible for a lot of good (Taris and Kalee being the best example).
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People have run experiments to test if anyone actually thinks in objectivist terms. So far, the evidence is that only sociopaths do.

Now not all sociopaths are socially unacceptable - for example, there is a very high prevalence of sociopaths among the ranks corporate CEOs and politicians.

Whumbly said:
That's called being a businesswoman. Greedy, yes? Corrupt, oh definitely? But that doesn't qualify her for evil, just self-centred.
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See, I would say that greed and corruption are evil. Especially corruption is enormously hurtful to other human beings. If someone is self-centered in a way that leads to intentionally inflicting great harm to their fellows, there is no "just" about it. No matter how good someone who indulges in such things is, when they give into their greed or their corruption, they are still doing evil acts.

It's just a different sort of evil from puppy murdering evil or sadistic evil.

dredloki said:
its like this CIARAN IS NEITHER BLACK OR WHITE
she's grey, in starwars, the epitome of black and white thinking.
its kinda wierd and also very cool to see a bad person do good things.
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See, what I like about Ciaran is that she is definitely a bad person, but she is a smart bad person who places limits on herself rather than the sort of character who goes "well, I am profiting from a brutal and bloody war, I guess I should go commit genocide now", which is especially common in Star Wars.

fasquardon
 
fasquardon said:
Really? 'Cuz since Dr. Snark took over I have felt that the moral ambiguity of Ciaran has been rather neglected.
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In all sincerity that might have something to do with the fact that her primary opposition (Palpatine) is so unbelievably, completely, irredeemably EEEEEVIIILLLL that anyone would look like a saint in comparison, and any actions taken against him have the obvious justifications of "if nothing then Order 66 and galaxy-wide tyranny under a psychopathic Sith Lord."

You can definitely play the "But what is evil?" card with Ciaran, but not so much with him.
 
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Dr. Snark said:
In all sincerity that might have something to do with the fact that her primary opposition (Palpatine) is so unbelievably, completely, irredeemably EEEEEVIIILLLL that anyone would look like a saint in comparison, and any actions taken against him have the obvious justifications of "if nothing then Order 66 and galaxy-wide tyranny under a psychopathic Sith Lord."

You can definitely play the "But what is evil?" card with Ciaran, but not so much with him.
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Well that tears it. Get outa the way Palps! You're ruining our bad guy vibe!

fasquardon
 
Side note: Can we set up a base in Alpheridies or just Miralukian space generally? Because I'm pretty sure that our force compatible cybernetics will be popular with a species that requires the force to see. To put it mildly. Plus, we could try to put up an agent recruiting station.
 
Renars said:
*Interest intensifies*
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Whumbly said:
If you want an idea, you could revive/rework the abandoned Moff Quest.
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UbeOne said:
That's the one where the Moff was assigned to Wild Space, right? That was nice to read while it lasted...
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Temes1066 said:
I would defiantly read that, as I did enjoy the original one.
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I may have to disappoint you since I HAD something else in mind, as made evident by me mentioning XCOM 2. *stares at the concept of Rebel/Resistance Cells and also struggles with finding/coming up with a system*
 
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Teron said:
I may have to disappoint you since I HAD something else in mind, as made evident by me mentioning XCOM 2. *stares at the concept of Rebell/Resistance Cells and also struggles with finding/coming up with a system*
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Kyr'am said:
Well, it's based off of EU rather than 2, but you might want to check this quest out:

Vigilo Invictus
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Teron said:
Cell. Not singular rebell.

*despair intensifies*
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There is also this Star Wars quest by @EarthScorpion - (In the Imperial Shadow)
 
Teron said:
The quest you linked is useless as inspiration for any kind of system since it focuses on ONE person. I intend to write a quest with an entire Rebell Cell.
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Ah, I see. Well, in that case, if I see any Rebel Cell quests/stories I'll let you know.

Also, rebel only has one l (not trying to be a dick, spelling and grammar is just one of the things I get a bit OCD about).
 
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