Well at the end of the day the question is this: would you rather have more credits or the flat bonus? Because I'm honestly uncertain that the discount can compare to that.

Paging @Dr. Snark:
I know which one I would prefer, but I'm not sure others would share that opinion.
I'm for the discount on base upgrades. Seems more worth it for the large upkeep cost.
Wookies in hard hats makes me happy for some reason. Them helping out for lower base costs has my full support.
Wookies singing like Oompa-Loompas has all my yes.
I can't speak for the readers who didn't contribute, but the ones who responded were pretty unanimous.

Would you be willing to change the Wookie Engineers reward, or list it as an option? (If you're really worried that the discount couldn't compare to a Learning default bonus, you could always have it provide a 10% discount instead of 5%...)
 
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Fair point; especially with 'Pulling the Strings' this takes on a higher priority.


OTOH, the point of the Training Compound would be to elevate "the best the SSS can offer," so it would boost her security as well. Though the reassurance that Padme will be fine is very appreciated.


Didn't forget it; just wasn't sure if it was a priority, given the expense.

Training Compound costs ~100 credits this turn (cost - income), while Presidium would cost 150 credits. I can swap out the two Karada upgrades for the Training Compound, but the Presidium would take a bit more finessing.

If we went for the Presidium, I'd probably cut the two 'Smuggling' upgrades from Ord Mantell, plus the Karada Medcenter on Cato Neimoidia (100 cost - 50 income = 50 credit savings apiece) to keep things relatively balanced. That would eliminate 150 income, in exchange for a 50 upkeep.

The question is: do we need that information now, or can we wait a turn before it becomes useful? (That's the same question I asked for the Svivreni researchers -- we'll probably pick up cortosis research the turn after next, so we'll pick it up next turn to save upkeep this turn).

Thoughts?
My thoughts are we want it sooner than later since it gives us info on Palpatine's actions and may give us enough of a heads up to blunt the worst of an action aimed at us. Basically it is a partial intrigue action each turn directed at giving us some of Palpatine's action choices for the turn.
 
A/N: Calculations got intense this turn to ensure we don't break the bank. Our upkeep increased by ~150, but our income rose by (roughly) 2000 credits (!), so we should be doing very well with our finances for next turn when we start upgrading Arkania, Corellia, the Arkanian Legacy, the Chu'unthor, and potentially The Foundry... crap, we're adding a lot of bases this turn, aren't we?


Balance Sheet for: Plan Whack-a-Mole

Current Treasury: 442

One-Off Costs -- Actions: 100+250+150+100+50+200+100 =950
One-Off Costs -- Base Purchases: 200
One-Off Costs -- Base Upgrades: 300+500+75+100+75+150+2050+50+100+200+150 =3750
Base Upgrades (Coruscant): 50+150+100 =300
Base Upgrades (Kalee): 100+200+100+100 =500
Base Upgrades (Oracle): 75
Base Upgrades (Mandalore): 100
Base Upgrades (Kiln): 75
Base Upgrades (La'Sombra): 0
Base Upgrades (Nar Shaddaa): 0
Base Upgrades (Castell): 0
Base Upgrades (Muunilist): 0
Base Upgrades (The Home): 0
Base Upgrades (Kashyyyk): 150
Base Upgrades (Taris): 250+150+200+200+200+100+150+150+200+50+250+150 =2050
Base Upgrades (Naboo): 50
Base Upgrades (Cato Neimoidia): 50+50 =100
Base Upgrades (Ord Mantell): 100+100 = 200
Base Upgrades (Dantooine): 50+100 =150
Base Discounts*: 198 (subtracted from costs)

Current Upkeep: 1734
Additional Upkeep: 50 + 50 + 35 +75 + 50 =260
Upkeep Discounts**: 14 + 34 =48 (subtracted from upkeep)


One-Off Rewards***: (?)+(?)

Current Income: 4375
Additional Income: (?)**** + 75 + 150 + 825 + 25 + 25 + 25 =1125
Base Upgrades (Coruscant): 25+50 =75
Base Upgrades (Kalee): 25+25+50+50 =150
Base Upgrades (Oracle): 0
Base Upgrades (Mandalore): 0
Base Upgrades (Kiln): 0
Base Upgrades (La'Sombra): 0
Base Upgrades (Nar Shaddaa): 0
Base Upgrades (Castell): 0
Base Upgrades (Muunilist): 0
Base Upgrades (The Home): 0
Base Upgrades (Kashyyyk): 0
Base Upgrades (Taris): 100+75+50+100+100+50+50+50+50+25+100+75 =825
Base Upgrades (Naboo): 25
Base Upgrades (Cato Neimoidia): 25
Base Upgrades (Ord Mantell): 25
Base Upgrades (Dantooine): 0

Income Penalty (Investments): -270*****
Income Bonuses (Planet): 15****** + 75****** + 0****** + 825****** = 915
Income Bonus (Organization): 88*******

* 3950 base costs * 5% Wookie Engineer discount = 198 extra credits per turn

** +35 Kiln upkeep * 40% labor-droid discount = extra 14 credits per turn
** +85 Martial upkeep * 40% military-factory discount = extra 34 credits per turn

*** Unknown loot from 'False-Flag Piracy', 'Helping Old Friends', 'Rakata Prime Expedition', and 'Revan's Final Legacy'
*** Unknown salvage from Coruscant, Nar Shaddaa, Taris, Oracle fleet, Ord Mantell, and Dantooine (2 rolls)

**** Unknown income from 'Can I See Your Maps', 'Baobab Merchant Fleet', and 'Fry Industries'

***** +675 investment income * 40% Palpatine 'tax' = 270 fewer credits per turn
50 (Kiln) + 100+75+100+100+50+50+50+25+75 (Taris)

******
+75 Coruscant income * 20% Charity bonus = extra 15 credits per turn
****** +150 Kalee income * 50% Revitalization bonus = extra 75 credits per turn
****** +0 Muunilist income * 80% Recovery/Police bonus = extra 0 credits per turn
****** +825 Taris income * 100% Revitalization bonus = extra 825 credits per turn

******* +1770 subtotal Income * 5% Muun Banker bonus = extra 88 credits per turn (not including any "?" income...)

Total Expenses: 6648
Total Revenue: 6233 (+ unknown loot, salvage, and Action income)
Difference: -415

Next Turn's Balance: 27



Changelog:

  • Replaced two Karada upgrades (on Coruscant) with SSS Training Compound (also on Coruscant)
  • Added Wookie Engineers (on Kashyyyk) and Senatorial Accounts Presidium (on Coruscant) in exchange for two 'smuggling' upgrades (on Ord Mantell) and the Karada Medcenter (on Cato Neimoidia)
  • Replaced Asajj's Hero action (messing with Separatist Senate) with PR-1's (upgrades), shuffled hero support, and removed Arkania base to pay for it.
 
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Few Notes
1) Definitely swap PR-1 and Ventress for Hero Actions. Agreed that we want the political pressure and honestly between some well timed Black Information, the using the Ventress Action as a start of a tree to get the Separatist Senate to collapse, and whatever else (ousting Shu Mai?) we can basically take the CIS down. They're vulnerable enough for it, however I don't think we want that yet. Undermining Dooku politically isn't a huge deal right now. Meanwhile, Upgrading PR-1 should presumably improve his Diplomacy and Stewardship stats, and by a huge extent hopefully. This is super useful because even if we get Talesan Fry as a Hero Unit, the Odds on those essential Stewardship Actions want Heroes with good Stewardship Stats. PR-1 upgrades are an important long term bonus given what we need.

2) In accordance with the above, we'll need to rearrange our Hero Allotments. Silas then joins Thrawn on the Senate Action, and Silas is replaced on the Thyferra Action by the Silencer, and Silencer is replaced on the Maul Action by Ventress. I very much believe that Ventress should be the go-to on Maul, which we kinda voted on. Since she's available again, put her on.

3) My argument for Soresu over Matukai, opportunity to bother Obi-Wan aside, is based on the fact that it's 1) a two-turn action to begin with, and 2) Matukai is Force-based and we should be getting the Chu'unthor operational soon. Matukai is useful, which is why we prioritized it for research like we did, but waiting on Matukai is more acceptable than waiting on Soresu (now that we are getting a proper lightsaber). We've also talked at length about how useful Soresu will be for surviving against Palpatine on account of it, well, being based entirely on not getting skewered in melee. We'll no doubt do both before it's over, but because of the Chu'unthor and the training effects it could allow, I think that waiting another turn on Matukai is a good play.

4) Moving on to Bases. Just hitting some high notes here.
-A) SSS Training Compound and Senatorial Accounts Presidium both sound like important investments. SSS is to protect the Senators we're converting, and the Presidium... I mean I'm not expecting miracles here so since the budget is tight then is what it is, but info on Palpatine and other leverage to use on the Senate is... well that's gold. Uscru and All Planets sound like good options for next turn, though. Edit: SSS has been added.
-B) Good call on waiting for the Megafauna Museum and yeah there's the Materials Research Lab (though that one does hurt), but I think the Commando Droids should go on the chopping block.
-C) Okay so, naturally, we have a lot of money in Taris (again), but heed Vectivus. Something here has to go. Galactic Games Arena seems like a good one, given that we already have a lot of Stewardship Actions built up and I don't think that the Galactic Games are gonna be a priority among what we already have. Plus, are the Games even going on in the middle of a massive war?
-D) Overall, let's not assume that this tax was the end of what Palpatine has in store for now. It's dangerous thinking. We need a bit more fiscal restraint here, even with salvage rolls being a thing.

5) Just popped into my head, but let's not forget the ramifications of the CNS actually suffering from piracy on enough of a scale to justify military expansion, without the immediate "expand the military" action. They're our own pirates (at least this time, not necessarily the pirates that they'll attract by making it look like the CNS is vulnerable again), so we can generally make sure that the money goes back around properly enough, but could also hurt CNS recruitment and whatever else. It's not like a successful roll has never bit us in the ass before (HI THYFERRA). Beyond that, I don't think I have much else to say on the subject of that choice in Martial Action. Obviously we'll be fine regardless of what we take and there's clear benefits to both paths both in this turn and down the road.

That's all I have, I think. Overall we've got it right this turn.
 
One thing I'd mention is that we have two upgrade CNS actions. Best to do the less controversial one, then give us a pretext to do the next one then use one pretext for a series of massive reforms.
 
You're assuming that the reason we're hiring a bunch of massive thugs from Space Russia to complement her already considerable security is for her safety and not Ciaran's entertainment.

"Thog, please put down Senator Binks, he's not a threat... Ivan, no one is going to hide a bomb in the silverware draw- Thog that's Senator Binks again, we just went over this."

Well no one said it couldn't be both. :V

I can't speak for the readers who didn't contribute, but the ones who responded were pretty unanimous.

Would you be willing to change the Wookie Engineers reward, or list it as an option? (If you're really worried that the discount couldn't compare to a Learning default bonus, you could always have it provide a 10% discount instead of 5%...)

Alright, since it seems like people are leaning towards the discount I'll make the change. It'll be the 5% discount.
 
@Publicola, I have one question: why not use more watchers? I know that under your plan we would have at least a 95% chancce of success on all proyects, however, would you consider including some more? My choice would be for the cortosis droids; considering how timesensitive and dramatic it would be, I believe that a +5% chance of a critical would be worth it, so that the Jedi can be better prepared for the attack or go on the offensive. It should make contact with the Sentinels easier at the least.
In general, I'm abiding by the same principle that we've stuck to since Watchers became a thing: save them up for a rainy day.

The cap is 20, so I'm generally aiming to use however many Watchers bring us down to 12-13. With a 60% recovery rate and +2-5 per turn, that's kept us pretty reliably near the cap without exceeding it or dropping too low.

I would also argue for Soresu to be learned first, so that we could synergize that with Anakin, help inicially survive with an impeccable defense, keep Makutai hidden from the Jedi and an easier communication for when an attack takes place.
Not sure what "keep Matukai hidden from the Jedi" means -- they are aware of it, and it's not like Ciaran would be practicing it in front of the 501st. Also: Obi-Wan uses Soresu, but Anakin doesn't -- he may be aware of how the Soresu form works, and can fight along side someone using it, but that's not quite the same. Also: Matukai pushes us to the same level of self-enhancement (Force jumps) that all Jedi have mastered, so that also helps us.

My thoughts are we want it sooner than later since it gives us info on Palpatine's actions and may give us enough of a heads up to blunt the worst of an action aimed at us. Basically it is a partial intrigue action each turn directed at giving us some of Palpatine's action choices for the turn.
...Very good point, and that would be a very useful asset.

Definitely swap PR-1 and Ventress for Hero Actions.
...Dammit you make good points. I really wanted Ventress to 1) come in to her own and 2) undermine Dooku's control of the Separatist systems that aren't megalomaniacs, but you're right that it's not as timely as the rest.

Upgrading PR-1 should presumably improve his Diplomacy and Stewardship stats
And boosting PR-1's Stewardship stats could very well be critical.

I very much believe that Ventress should be the go-to on Maul, which we kinda voted on.
And this is pretty much exactly what we decided, so that works even better. So yeah, you've pretty much convinced me.

Anyone want to give a counter-argument? Otherwise I'll go ahead and swap the actions + hero support as he suggested.

because of the Chu'unthor and the training effects it could allow, I think that waiting another turn on Matukai is a good play.
I agree that the Chu'unthor might/should provide training effects, but that would be for our Abyss Agents and Force-sect allies. The current action would be Ciaran learning Matukai for herself. I can't see how the Chu'unthor would affect that.

I'm not expecting miracles here so since the budget is tight then is what it is, but info on Palpatine and other leverage to use on the Senate is... well that's gold.
...Yet miracles are expected. <sighs heavily> I'll go ahead and change it, though I may need to remove four income upgrades to ensure we don't go into negative numbers.

I think the Commando Droids should go on the chopping block.
I'd really like to keep those commando droids. I forget who initially posted it, but this video makes it clear that commando droids can outfight even elite clone troopers, and give even Jedi conniptions. It costs 75 credits, but the upkeep is basically nil once you factor in Kiln & Military discounts. I'd like to start building up our forces sooner rather than later.

I don't think that the Galactic Games are gonna be a priority among what we already have. Plus, are the Games even going on in the middle of a massive war?
I think it was @Andres110 who pointed out that the Galactic Games would be a phenomenal opportunity for positive PR as well as income. Plus, we are based in Neutral Space; it makes sense to advertise our neutrality and the benefits of peace...
 
So we basically need to watch out for Maul, while at the same time be able to counter Palpatine on multiple fronts without tipping our hand or going bankrupt in the process.
[X] Plan Whack-a-Mole
 
[X] Plan Whack-a-Mole

Hope our financial side won't be as bleak as last time *remembers Vectivus' lecture* brrrrrrr
 
@Publicola Personally, I would rather have:
[] Preying Mantises: The Mantis Syndicate chapter of the Bounty Hunters Guild specializes in large-scale anti-piracy operations. How perfectly convenient, given the CNS's interest in fighting pirates around the galaxy. Extend an offer of support in exchange for a cut of the loot. Chance of Success: 60% Cost: 100 Reward: +50 Military income, per-turn loot roll, CNS space secured against pirates (slightly increased odds for CNS recruitment), Mantis Syndicate added as anti-Palpatine asset

Instead of the piracy thing. It adds income, a loot roll, and an anti-Palpatine asset. Also, if I'm being honest, I just don't like the piracy idea, it feels like something Palpatine would do... actually that is exactly what he did to Naboo, just not as big as what he did. It's something that bugs me a bit.

[X] Watchers of the Dark: Chance of Success: 50% Reward: Maul tracked at all times
-[X] The Silencer

I also really don't like having the Silencer on this. Fluff wise, this is a mission entirely unsuited to him.

Other than those points, I think your plan is fine.

Edit: Do you ever look back at something you posted and realize you could have worded something better? I've edited this post 6 times because I keep seeing something wrong every time I look at it.
 
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And this is pretty much exactly what we decided, so that works even better. So yeah, you've pretty much convinced me.

Anyone want to give a counter-argument? Otherwise I'll go ahead and swap the actions + hero support as he suggested.
Of course, now that I said that I found at least one problem: the PR-1 upgrade costs 100 credits. So now I'll have to figure out how to pay for that... which frankly means I'll probably be removing the last two upgrades from Cato Neimoidia, since the wiretaps only give 25 income but force us to spend 100 credits (for the upgrade itself + the defense grid for the facility). If we're okay sitting on the line of 0 credits, that should be enough, but otherwise I can cut out the Naboo wiretaps for another 25 credits and be done with it.

EDIT: or I could just cut the new base on Arkania and plan to purchase that next turn. That'd let us focus our spending next turn on the four other new bases.... Thoughts?

Instead of the piracy thing. It adds income, a loot roll, and an anti-Palpatine asset and to be honest I just don't like the piracy idea, feels like something Palpatine would do... actually that is exactly what he did to Naboo, just not as big as what he did. It's just something that bugs me a bit.
Fair point, and I really like that action, but the 'false flag' stuff is necessary to justify any sort of military build-up within the CNS (including simply training our troops and integrating our new allies, including Muunilist with its IGBC fleet, Corellia with its paramilitary, and the many shipyards we gained last turn). Basically, it looks like Palpatine intends to force us to choose one side or the other, so I'd prefer to get our military up and running ASAP lest disaster strikes. Once the pirates give us an excuse, then we'll collaborate with the Mantis Syndicate -- that might even be next turn's pick.
 
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Fair point, and I really like that action, but the 'false flag' stuff is necessary to justify any sort of military build-up within the CNS (including simply training our troops and integrating our new allies, including Muunilist with its IGBC fleet, Corellia with its paramilitary, and the many shipyards we gained last turn). Basically, it looks like Palpatine intends to force us to choose one side or the other, so I'd prefer to get our military up and running ASAP lest disaster strikes. Once the pirates give us an excuse, then we'll collaborate with the Mantis Syndicate -- that might even be next turn's pick.

I don't doubt that we'll pass the action and I understand where you're coming from, but it's just really shifty.

I'll sleep on it. See guys in ~6-7 hours.
 
Of course, now that I said that I found at least one problem: the PR-1 upgrade costs 100 credits. So now I'll have to figure out how to pay for that... which frankly means I'll probably be removing the last two upgrades from Cato Neimoidia, since the wiretaps only give 25 income but force us to spend 100 credits (for the upgrade itself + the defense grid for the facility). If we're okay sitting on the line of 0 credits, that should be enough, but otherwise I can cut out the Naboo wiretaps for another 25 credits and be done with it.
I say remove Nemoidia and Naboo upgrades, having a little more money saved just in case is worth it.
[X] Plan Whack-a-Mole
 
"Sentient" Droids (aka Iron Knights):
Mainstay Jedi thought processes are primitive, As Kreya said they are truly blind.
 
EDIT: or I could just cut the new base on Arkania and plan to purchase that next turn. That'd let us focus our spending next turn on the four other new bases.... Thoughts?
I'm feeling increasingly inclined to KISS and just remove the Arkania base, in order to afford the PR-1 Upgrade. As much as I want those geneticists (plus ice dragons, y'all), we're already picking up the Arkanian Legacy next turn, which should cover most of the medical upgrades we might have been looking at.

Thoughts?
 
I'm feeling increasingly inclined to KISS and just remove the Arkania base, in order to afford the PR-1 Upgrade. As much as I want those geneticists (plus ice dragons, y'all), we're already picking up the Arkanian Legacy next turn, which should cover most of the medical upgrades we might have been looking at.

Thoughts?
That sounds like a good idea. We already have a lot of bases, and upgrading them already takes a lot of our resources.
 
We might as well remove the base since we got a great amount already. If anything we are just moving everything into a really awesome spaceship.
 
Also, saying it now, but next turn when we raid Tipoca City with Skirata we should bring Jango. Not only does Jango know the City well, but the guy can disguise himself perfectly, and as Mand'alor he's in an excellent position to convince Skirata that he can trust Ciaran. Treasury Records, please.
 
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