The Rule of Two was the only way for the Sith to destroy the Jedi and reign supreme over the galaxy. If that meant risking the very existence of the order, then so be it. Better to risk for greatness than settle for mediocrity.
Ey, the old sith occupied half of the known galaxy for thousands of years and all the INSANELY POWERFUL Sith, guys who could have killed Sidious in his prime with a hand behind the back, like Exar Kun, Darth Vitiate, Darth Nihilus or Darth Revan lived in those years.

Much better than conquering the whole galaxy, and have an empire that lasts for less than 30 years until is utterly destroyed.
 
hah no, all e had to do was rewrite the sith code to have a little less backstabbing (personally train some non crazy sith), and he could have kept the empire he DID have, and maby even take the republic. also, the sith reigned supreme for like to decade's and flopped dead. Not a very good empire there.

By the time of Bane the Sith Empire and Order had become pretty much unsalvageable. In a desire to prove themselves they just kept drawing the attention of the Jedi. The Sith needed time to rebuild and the best way for it to work is to make the Galaxy think the Sith are gone.

Do I think it should have branched out after a couple of generations? Yes.
Could they have changed the doctrine to be more pragmatic? Of course.

But, the Sith did well in becoming the shadowy puppet masters, making the galaxy dance to their tune. These Sith were perhaps the best revolutionaries... it's just after he succeeded, Palpatine wasn't very good at ruling the Empire... because he wanted to do more Sith research and had no desire to teach Vader anything useful.

What he did was leave a bunch of ambitious men in charge with a doctrine designed to fester hatred and expected things to go smoothly. Three guesses to how that worked out.

Ey, the old sith occupied half of the known galaxy for thousands of years and all the INSANELY POWERFUL Sith, guys who could have killed Sidious in his prime with a hand behind the back, like Exar Kun, Darth Vitiate, Darth Nihilus or Darth Revan lived in those years.

It doesn't matter how powerful one person is. They can been killed, by time or luck or overwhelming numbers. When they die, a power vacuum occurs and every Sith looking to be the next top Dark Lord jumps into the fray and the result is a weakened Sith Order, followed by the Jedi turning up, killing a few and taking credit for destroying the Sith, when really the Sith fought each other more than there actual enemies,
 
Ey, the old sith occupied half of the known galaxy for thousands of years and all the INSANELY POWERFUL Sith, guys who could have killed Sidious in his prime with a hand behind the back, like Exar Kun, Darth Vitiate, Darth Nihilus or Darth Revan lived in those years.
The Rule of Two meant that each successive Dark Lord of the Sith was more powerful than the last. A thousand years of that tradition - which started with Bane - is what made Darth Sidious canonically the most powerful Sith to ever live. If any of those Sith you mentioned fought Sidious, they'd lose.

Much better than conquering the whole galaxy, and have an empire that lasts for less than 30 years until is utterly destroyed.
The Empire was destroyed because 'Chosen One' trumps everything, not because there was fault with the Sith or the Rule of Two.
 
The Rule of Two meant that each successive Dark Lord of the Sith was more powerful than the last. A thousand years of that tradition - which started with Bane - is what made Darth Sidious canonically the most powerful Sith to ever live. If any of those Sith you mentioned fought Sidious, they'd lose.


The Empire was destroyed because 'Chosen One' trumps everything, not because there was fault with the Sith or the Rule of Two.
so the rule of two killed the sith, the apprentice killed the master and died as the new master, with no apprentice. they were the last bane sith and they died with no successor to there name.
 
The Rule of Two meant that each successive Dark Lord of the Sith was more powerful than the last.
less. Not more.

Every generation was less powerful. Less knowledgeable. Less skilled. No master of the Sith dared teach their apprentice their most secret knowledge because to do so would only accelerate their own death. And so with each generation more knowledge and power was lost.

Bane is why Shatterpoint and Battle Meditation and Force Rage and Sith Alchemy and Force Wail and dozens of other techniques are lost to the Sith, known only from holocrons and the rare hidden sect of Dark Siders that didn't follow his self destructive path.
 
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less. Not more.

Every generation was less powerful. Less knowledgeable. Less skilled. No master of the Sith dared teach their apprentice their most secret knowledge because to do so would only accelerate their own death. And so with each generation more knowledge and power was lost.
This flies completely in the face of Legends, Canon, and the purpose of the Rule of Two. Under the Rule of Two, the apprentice was meant to learn as much as they could from the master and then kill them, the secret knowledge they possessed either being taught to them, recorded in a holocron, or replaced with secret knowledge the new master would learn themselves. So more knowledgeable and more skilled.

As for power, that is where you are most incorrect by far. In order to kill the master, the apprentice had to become more powerful than them. The new master will eventually be killed by their own apprentice, who by necessity would be even more powerful. So on and so forth, with each subsequent master being more powerful than the last by virtue of the fact that they needed to be more powerful than the last to be the master. That is the one of the biggest reasons behind the Rule of Two, and to say they'd become less powerful because of it is to disregard logic and all the lore that says otherwise.

Bane is why Shatterpoint and Battle Meditation and Force Rage and Force Wail and Battle Rage and dozens of other techniques are lost to the Sith, known only from holocrons and the rare hidden sect of Dark Siders that didn't follow his self destructive path.
Actually, the reason why the modern Sith have lost all that knowledge was explained to have been the result of Darth Gravid who intentionally destroyed most of that knowledge after he went insane from trying to master both the Dark Side and the Light Side. Despite that loss of knowledge, the Sith continued to get more powerful, which is really all that matters as far as the Sith are concerned.
 
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This flies completely in the face of Legends, Canon, and the purpose of the Rule of Two. Under the Rule of Two, the apprentice was meant to learn as much as they could from the master and then kill them, the secret knowledge they possessed either being taught to them, recorded in a holocron, or replaced with secret knowledge the new master would learn themselves. So more knowledgeable and more skilled.

As for power, that is where you are most incorrect by far. In order to kill the master, the apprentice had to become more powerful than them. The new master will eventually be killed by their own apprentice, who by necessity would be even more powerful. So on and so forth, with each subsequent master being more powerful than the last by virtue of the fact that they needed to be more powerful than the last to be the master. That is the one of the biggest reasons behind the Rule of Two, and to say they'd become less powerful because of it is to disregard logic and all the lore that says otherwise.


Actually, the reason why the modern Sith have lost all that knowledge was explained to have been the result of Darth Gravid who intentionally destroyed most of that knowledge after he went insane from trying to master both the Dark Side and the Light Side. Despite that loss of knowledge, the Sith continued to get more powerful, which is really all that matters as far as the Sith are concerned.
saying palpatine could kill even half of those names mentioned is kinda insulting by proxy. beside's what bane thought was true, sith are cowards and will most likely take the easy option. like poison, or a malfunctioning hyperdrive.
 
*spends far too long trying to figure out whether Vibroblades can rust*
Actually, the reason why the modern Sith have lost all that knowledge was explained to have been the result of Darth Gravid who intentionally destroyed most of that knowledge after he went insane from trying to master both the Dark Side and the Light Side. Despite that loss of knowledge, the Sith continued to get more powerful, which is really all that matters as far as the Sith are concerned.
And if there had been more Sith just...around, knowing those things, they wouldn't have been lost.
 
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As for as training Ciaran goes, I accept that he has nothing really to offer in terms of using the Force, but that doesn't mean he has nothing to offer her. As mentioned before, Vectivus spent his life studying Sith lore, lore that would've mostly been irrevocably destroyed by Darth Gravid in his insanity. That is a massive amount of lore that Ciaran would never have gained or had access to without meeting Vectivus. Even though he's a dry well when it comes to techniques and abilities, in terms of actual lore he is an untapped goldmine, and for that reason he would be able to increase Ciaran's Lore.

Hmm...that's all well and good and it's possible that it could be a thing if people insisted on it, but my concern is that as valuable as said historical knowledge would be it'd be dull as hell from a gameplay perspective. Taking currently possible actions into account: would you rather get history lessons or learn how to alter the future with your mind?

It's not like I'm leaving him out in the lurch though. Like I said I'm totally interested in having him lend his business acumen for Stewardship lessons since there aren't really any trainers for Ciaran in that field, and there's honestly more room for interesting character interactions with that.

You say that he helps the Agents train at the Home, but we have never received any indication that that was the case. The chance of promotion hasn't gone up and no new training actions have been unlocked.

...Did you not read the part where Vectivus was present at Kygeetu's promotion?

As for promotion chances in general, there was no way for them to get promoted until the facility was built at the Home. For training actions...exactly what would that entail specifically? Aside from your suggestion later I don't really have an idea of how that would actually work.

@Dr. Snark, I'd like to suggest that we get a new Lore action, similar to the Archaeological action we have - a Vectivus action. He wouldn't be able to do actions that require him to leave the Home like Brother's Lament or Research Alternative Force Schools, but ones such as Force Research and Incorporate X Techniques he would be able to do.

Urgh..okay look. Adding another action runs the risk of taking away tension from the turn decisions since you'd have 3 actions for a category that's never really been that full to begin with.

That being said, this:

... Wait. We already have force compatible mechanical prosthetics. Is there a chance we could make a some sort of full body prosthetic, so to speak, that he could possess? @Dr. Snark, any thoughts on this?

-is a thing that may or may not be possible in the near future, especially given the results of this turn.

[] Personal Tutoring (Apprentices or Agents): With some extra dedicated time, you can substantially increase the skill of your Force Users and thus improve their odds of promotion. Reward: This turn, +30% Apprentice promotion chance or +15% Agent promotion chance

I think I can make that a thing, sure.
 
Hmm...that's all well and good and it's possible that it could be a thing if people insisted on it, but my concern is that as valuable as said historical knowledge would be it'd be dull as hell from a gameplay perspective. Taking currently possible actions into account: would you rather get history lessons or learn how to alter the future with your mind?
Just as the Martial stat represents personal combat ability as well as leadership skills, the Lore stat represents knowledge as well as Force power. It would be a simple increase in Lore without any real trait, but the sheer quantity and scarcity of lore we have access to with Vectivus would make it a large increase in the stat. I'll admit it's not particularly interlude-worthy, but not everything has to be, and it doesn't mean it wouldn't be worth taking.

...Did you not read the part where Vectivus was present at Kygeetu's promotion?

As for promotion chances in general, there was no way for them to get promoted until the facility was built at the Home.
I should clarify what I meant. I didn't mean that Vectivus has been doing nothing, per se, just that it was never indicated that there were any tangible effects on Agent training, when you'd expect there would be. The closest thing to tangible effects were narrative; the greatest piece of narrative showcasing Vectivus as a trainer was during Kygeetu's promotion, where he had a single line of dialogue.

As for our Force Users being able to be promoted beyond Tier 1 thanks to him, I didn't know about that. It wasn't mentioned in the update and I started following this quest only after the events of that update. But yeah, I can appreciate that.

For training actions...exactly what would that entail specifically? Aside from your suggestion later I don't really have an idea of how that would actually work.
Well, Ciaran can't learn techniques such as Force Lightning because it's a generic technique and Ciaran already learned a technique from Vectivus' holocron, but that doesn't mean our other Force Users can't. We can have Vectivus train some Apprentices in a different way to how Tyro trains them, which would result in a new type of Force User, transforming the promotion path into a promotion tree. (The result would be something like the Guardian/Consular/Sentinel split.)

Instead of...
Abyss Apprentice > Abyss Agent > Abyss Walker
We'd have...
Abyss Apprentice > Abyss Agent > Abyss Walker
.............................> Abyss Acolyte > Abyss Knight

You gotta admit, 'Abyss Knight' sounds cool. :cool:

If you don't like that, he could teach our Agents how to build actual lightsabers instead of the cheap (actually very expensive) knockoffs they have now. Or he could give us an "Incorporate Sith Techniques" action. Or perhaps an action to get a Walker to Tier 4, and this action would be the only way possible for a Walker to reach that rank. (For balance, I'm thinking a low chance of success and a multi-turn requirement.)

Another potential training action is for him to fully instruct Asajj Ventress in the ways of the Sith. She was a mere Sith Assassin when she left, not even a Sith Apprentice. If Ventress became Vectivus' apprentice, she wouldn't be receiving training from a mere Sith Apprentice (Dooku), but from a proper Sith Lord. And unlike Ciaran, traditional training would work on her, since that's what she's used to.

Though on thinking about it, that seems more like a multi-turn Hero action than a Lore action.
 
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I can't even imagine what Coruscant is going to be like -- it took me practically all day just to finish the Corellian sector!
Well, I no longer have to imagine what Coruscant is like -- it took four days to finish the survey for the planet.

Coruscant is... something else. There may be other 'ecumenopolis' planets in the galaxy, with a single city completely covering the land. The difference, however, is that most of those city worlds are cities, that just happen to be much wider than usual. Coruscant covered the whole planet... and then it started building up. There's only a single point where natural rock appears anywhere on the planet -- a mountain peak called Umate, with maybe a dozen feet of actual rock showing -- and it's in the middle of Monument Plaza, surrounded by thousand-story apartment complexes.

If you've seen the trailer for the cancelled "Level 1313" FPS game, you may remember that Coruscant goes down a long way. That game would have been set int he Coruscant Underworld on Level 1313 -- that is, one thousand three hundred and thirteen levels (slightly larger than the 'story' of a building) above the bedrock on Level 1. The problem is, Level 1313 is nowhere near the surface. The actual 'surface' Level of the city -- the lowest point you can go before hitting the Coruscant Underworld, the point at which most major skyscrapers have their foundations -- is on Level 5127.

So yeah. Coruscant is big.
 
Honestly Coruscant is so big and has so much stuff on/in it I wouldn't be surprised if it had a small sith empire in it somewhere
 
The logistics of Coruscant intrigue me. Even with near 100% recycling, the volume of imports ought to be astronomical. Then there are the industrial areas to consider for local production. And as I recall there is quite a bit of unrecycleable trash they simply dump it the sun.

What is the food production like on Coruscant? Protein factories? Hydroponic farm skyscrapers?
 
The logistics of Coruscant intrigue me. Even with near 100% recycling, the volume of imports ought to be astronomical. Then there are the industrial areas to consider for local production. And as I recall there is quite a bit of unrecycleable trash they simply dump it the sun.

What is the food production like on Coruscant? Protein factories? Hydroponic farm skyscrapers?

It works on the logic of "don't think about it too hard." We're in a setting where space wizards lead armies of clones to battle droids across the entire galaxy. Don't brings things like physics and common sense into this.

Relevant reading:

Irregular Webcomic! #386

Irregular Webcomic! #396
 
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