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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Ayashi said:
we still have the 8 years military service to do.
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That was to pay off our debt to the sect if I recall correctly, and has thus been waived with our vassalhood to CRX. Now we have military service with them, presumably from conversations with her, on our fief lands. Wherever those are.
 
BungieONI said:
That's kind of the point. Anything is better than the neophyte's blade we have, I think we can all agree. And if we have the option to have a very powerful domain weapon, even if we can't fully use it's potential, "why not take it?", was directly implied. It will be something we can grow into and use however we wish and even if we don't specify anything Yrsillar is not going to let us down on it. I also had some rough math in there of what I expected to get out of it at minimum(+6 dice compared to neophyte's and some other more important stuff).

And to note your point about not getting the first domain o, if we don't, then the Neophyte's Blade will be swinging 11 dice. It will be only a hindrance for maybe a round. In a similar situation bonus dice from elements and passives on an actual D-Weapon, plus whatever special abilities it has doesn't improve that amazingly, but it does mean we won't get shanked by someone on Turn 2 while we are getting TRF up and it might actually be relevant as a supporting piece(not literally a support thing, but as another attacker) for Zhengui.
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"Why not have it" is because there is no signifcant difference between getting it and just getting a random inner sect crafted sword, but there is a significant difference between pretty much anything else we could do with umbral shard.

Basically, 'inner sect crafted sword' => 'cai comission with umbral shard sword' difference is very, very, very low, but the same doesn't apply for most other kind of talismans, including a flute upgrade.

It's basically the equivalent of blowing tens of thousand of dollars for a computer upgrade that will never be used when we don't have enough food to last the week.
 
Arkeus said:
"Why not have it" is because there is no signifcant difference between getting it and just getting a random inner sect crafted sword, but there is a significant difference between pretty much anything else we could do with umbral shard.

Basically, 'inner sect crafted sword' => 'cai comission with umbral shard sword' difference is very, very, very low, but the same doesn't apply for most other kind of talismans, including a flute upgrade.

It's basically the equivalent of blowing tens of thousand of dollars for a computer upgrade that will never be used when we don't have enough food to last the week.
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I don't see a difference either way. I don't have any indications that the same does not apply for most other kinds of talismans.

Can you show me what is giving you this information, please?
 
BungieONI said:
That was to pay off our debt to the sect if I recall correctly, and has thus been waived with our vassalhood to CRX. Now we have military service with them, presumably from conversations with her, on our fief lands. Wherever those are.
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I agree with the first, but not the second.
We'll spend those military service years following CRX at the frontier. I really don't see CRX giving one of her main minions a fief land on the frontier.
Also, remember that she wants us to accompany her around, not stay in our fief defending it from whatever non-imperial barbarians threatens the Province.
If anything she'll give us some lands close to the capital, or some other relatively safe location.


This seems nice, and likely to win as opposed to a flute upgrade. Sadly.
@Klaus Not sure why we'd want a Scythe since it a hilariously impractical weapon. A naked handleless double edge blade or a Morningstar's head seem to make a much better flying weapon.
Maybe a full 360° edged chakram (again no handle: i don't want someone to just catch it) ? That can be crafted to look somewhat like a moon.

[X][Talisman] Sable Smile
-[X] Object Type: War Scythe (Base stats: DV8, AP3)
-[X] Use Umbral Shard
-[X] Dexterity+Expression, Darkness
--[X] Improved initiative
--[X] Bonus dice based on the initiative difference between the sword and the target
--[X] Bonus damage based on the initiative value of the sword(not capped by DV)
--[X] Increased DV
 
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To be blunt, a top class Domain Weapon will last us well into Fourth Realm, and also means that we don't have to risk someone coming at us with a strong one, bashing our regular one apart, and then cutting us to pieces with little recourse.

Hell, it means this is a thing we can do to others.
 
BungieONI said:
I don't see a difference either way. I don't have any indications that the same does not apply for most other kinds of talismans.

Can you show me what is giving you this information, please?
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Sure!

We don't have a domain weapon art right now, so we don't know what kind of domain weapon would be useful for us. Having neither a domain weapon art nor multiple domain weapon dots (ooo+) means that both the domain weapon dice pool is low but also that it doesn't matter if it its because it doesn't have tech effects. As such, while a domain weapon can be of some use, it has a fairly sharp dimnishing return until in 1/2 years or unless Yrsillar decide to make them really powerful once the combat system changes to full narrative combat.

Other kind of talismans, however, have a direct use for us that's not limited by not having any techs and having a very low ceiling of use. So a powerful offensive dark talisman accessory could not only be an order of magnitude stronger than anything we can get otherwise, but that strength can actually be used rather than just for show.

The same applies for upgrading our shitty flute into something half-decent.

Basically, we can't actually make use of a domain weapon until we go through significant character upgrade, but going through those character upgrade means we'll want a different domain weapon anyway. So getting one that's really powerful is useless in both short and mid term.
 
Ayashi said:
@Klaus Not sure why we'd want a Scythe since it a hilariously impractical weapon. A naked handleless double edge blade or a Morningstar's head seem to make a much better flying weapon.
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Well, I was originally going to go for a nice, practical, Lucerne Hammer, but I thought people would find the scythe more stylish.(I just called it a "war" scythe and gave it the Lucerne Hammer's stats anyway. ;))

I suppose I could switch. I'd ask yrsillar if the having a handle actually made a mechanical difference, but I've asked him a ton of questions about flying swords already.:oops:
 
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Why do people want this glacial pace to continue? Have some confidence in the QM to pick the minors and scenes that will be the most interesting while still advancing the story.
 
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Arkeus said:
Sure!

We don't have a domain weapon art right now, so we don't know what kind of domain weapon would be useful for us. Having neither a domain weapon art nor multiple domain weapon dots (ooo+) means that both the domain weapon dice pool is low but also that it doesn't matter if it its because it doesn't have tech effects. As such, while a domain weapon can be of some use, it has a fairly sharp dimnishing return until in 1/2 years or unless Yrsillar decide to make them really powerful once the combat system changes to full narrative combat.

Other kind of talismans, however, have a direct use for us that's not limited by not having any techs and having a very low ceiling of use. So a powerful offensive dark talisman accessory could not only be an order of magnitude stronger than anything we can get otherwise, but that strength can actually be used rather than just for show.

The same applies for upgrading our shitty flute into something half-decent.

Basically, we can't actually make use of a domain weapon until we go through significant character upgrade, but going through those character upgrade means we'll want a different domain weapon anyway. So getting one that's really powerful is useless in both short and mid term.
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Okay. What are you talking about when you say Domain Weapon Arts? I have seen no indication of these.
 
BungieONI said:
Okay. What are you talking about when you say Domain Weapon Arts? I have seen no indication of these.
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Current domain weapon cannot do anything whatsoever to any peers. Meizhen could attack us with hers for 10 turn straight and it would do nothing whatsoever. They are just too weak both in dicepool and effect.

However, we know that there are specific arts that can influence domain weapon,, as we know that an art has to specify it influence domain weapon for dice increase from an art to apply to domain weapon. As such, there should be domain weapon art.

Without one of those, we just aren't going to do anything whatsoever with a domain weapon.

Now, it's possible that, say, AC gain the ability to use its tech with a domain weapon at AC5.... but guess what, AC is fire/water, so even if it does getting a darkness domain weapon right now is screwing ourself over.
 
Arkeus said:
Current domain weapon cannot do anything whatsoever to any peers. Meizhen could attack us with hers for 10 turn straight and it would do nothing whatsoever. They are just too weak both in dicepool and effect.

However, we know that there are specific arts that can influence domain weapon,, as we know that an art has to specify it influence domain weapon for dice increase from an art to apply to domain weapon. As such, there should be domain weapon art.

Without one of those, we just aren't going to do anything whatsoever with a domain weapon.

Now, it's possible that, say, AC gain the ability to use its tech with a domain weapon at AC5.... but guess what, AC is fire/water, so even if it does getting a darkness domain weapon right now is screwing ourself over.
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Ah okay.

Doesn't honestly change my mind. This is because making the umbral shard domain weapon fits exactly with where I want Ling Qi to go, and now that I know they likely exist I'd choose Domain Weapon Arts which fit the Weapon and not the other way around.
 
You should also check with the GM to see if it's even possible for Domain Weapons to use techniques, because the only mention so far has been passive bonuses and domain weapons being affected only by buffs/debuffs that specifically mention domain weapons.
 
BungieONI said:
And the list goes on and on from there. CRX will handle a very good chunk of that, but we are going to want freedom of spending in the initial ridiculously expensive set up phase and first few years. If Meizhen says that the mirror is good funding for our fief, then it must be [insert adjective of amplification] valuable.

And that fief is only 14 months away now, and the Inner Sect's Time Line will be shorter than here. I recall discussions of two weeks to a month every turn.

So yeah. I'm concerned about selling it and spending it on anything other than the fief.
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Honestly, our return on investment is crazy high. At the very least, anything that we would buy over the course of the next year is something we should go ahead and buy now.

Making it into the inner sect opens up new opportunities to make money. At the very least, it offers access to more difficult and rewarding missions (we hit the cap on outer sect mission difficulty and payout a while ago). It also offers access to a whole new peer group with the corresponding chance for fruitful cooperation or alternative methods of wealth acquisition.

We get bonuses for finishing higher up in the top ten as well, if memory serves.

Any purchase that improves our chances to make it to the Inner Sect is a purchase we should make.

If anything we should be borrowing rather than saving. Look at our income graph over time. Imagine if we had been able to borrow 100 red spirit stones in week one to be repaid at the end of the year. At that time it would have had a huge impact on our cultivation speed for months and would also have been a daunting sum to repay. Fast forward to now and spending less than 100 red spirit stones on cultivation is a light week.
 
Klaus said:
Well, I was originally going to go for a nice, practical, Lucerne Hammer, but I thought people would find the scythe more stylish.(I just called it a "war" scythe and gave it the Lucerne Hammer's stats anyway. ;))

If enough people prefer, I'm happy to switch back.
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I think it would be better if our flying weapon didn't have safe parts for the enemy to hold it with.
Let alone over two thirds of the whole weapon.


it's understandably hard to find weapons without that particular weakness, but here are my favorites:
 
Arkeus said:
Current domain weapon cannot do anything whatsoever to any peers. Meizhen could attack us with hers for 10 turn straight and it would do nothing whatsoever. They are just too weak both in dicepool and effect.

However, we know that there are specific arts that can influence domain weapon,, as we know that an art has to specify it influence domain weapon for dice increase from an art to apply to domain weapon. As such, there should be domain weapon art.

Without one of those, we just aren't going to do anything whatsoever with a domain weapon.

Now, it's possible that, say, AC gain the ability to use its tech with a domain weapon at AC5.... but guess what, AC is fire/water, so even if it does getting a darkness domain weapon right now is screwing ourself over.
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I'm... not sure where you are getting that? Under the current paradigm Meizhen's sword calcs would look something like...

(7+7)x2+10, for 38 dice, that... not exactly useless I think even disregarding potential passive bonuses, weapon abilities or if she hits domain 2 before the tourney
 
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I wanted to use Minor actions to try getting the dragon, and now we won't get to pick them :cry:

Kinda worried about us apparently having to fund our own fief from the start. Our cultivation is about to grind to a halt, methinks. Maybe we could try learning some sort of beuracracy cultivation art.

Either way, unless there is some reason not to, we should go back for more treasures just for funding. Maybe use our domain weapon to try getting the spear, considering its origins.

jacobk said:
Honestly, our return on investment is crazy high. At the very least, anything that we would buy over the course of the next year is something we should go ahead and buy now.

Making it into the inner sect opens up new opportunities to make money. At the very least, it offers access to more difficult and rewarding missions (we hit the cap on outer sect mission difficulty and payout a while ago). It also offers access to a whole new peer group with the corresponding chance for fruitful cooperation or alternative methods of wealth acquisition.

We get bonuses for finishing higher up in the top ten as well, if memory serves.

Any purchase that improves our chances to make it to the Inner Sect is a purchase we should make.

If anything we should be borrowing rather than saving. Look at our income graph over time. Imagine if we had been able to borrow 100 red spirit stones in week one to be repaid at the end of the year. At that time it would have had a huge impact on our cultivation speed for months and would also have been a daunting sum to repay. Fast forward to now and spending less than 100 red spirit stones on cultivation is a light week.
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Except it wouldn't be paying back a hundred, it'd be more like a thousand or something. And they'd come calling for it armed and with the law on their side, likely around about now if someone calls in some favours or something.
 
Ayashi said:
I think it would be better if our flying weapon didn't have safe parts for the enemy to hold it with.
Let alone over two thirds of the whole weapon.
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Well, let's find out, I guess, since yrsillar is here.

@yrsillar, does chosing a flying weapon with a handle actually have negative consequences, or is the weapon's looks just fluff that won't hurt us?
 
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@Klaus as ggod as that is, the +Dv is rather useless for an already high DV weapon, plus you don't take advantage of the Shard's unique qi drain properties. I can't in good conscience support that.

I'll try my hand at crafting an alternative in just a sec
 
I would think that the ideal modifiers for our domain weapon would be qi drain, armor piercing, and semi perfect bonus damage. I would leave the fourth slot to be determined by anything else the weapon and material naturally lean towards, thus providing the crafter and yrsillar a free hand for the last slot.
 
You can try to hold onto a flying sword, but its the same as trying to grapple a person mechanically, handle or no handle, people can do crazy shit like catching a blade between their fingers after all.
 
jacobk said:
Honestly, our return on investment is crazy high. At the very least, anything that we would buy over the course of the next year is something we should go ahead and buy now.

Making it into the inner sect opens up new opportunities to make money. At the very least, it offers access to more difficult and rewarding missions (we hit the cap on outer sect mission difficulty and payout a while ago). It also offers access to a whole new peer group with the corresponding chance for fruitful cooperation or alternative methods of wealth acquisition.

We get bonuses for finishing higher up in the top ten as well, if memory serves.

Any purchase that improves our chances to make it to the Inner Sect is a purchase we should make.

If anything we should be borrowing rather than saving. Look at our income graph over time. Imagine if we had been able to borrow 100 red spirit stones in week one to be repaid at the end of the year. At that time it would have had a huge impact on our cultivation speed for months and would also have been a daunting sum to repay. Fast forward to now and spending less than 100 red spirit stones on cultivation is a light week.
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Indeed.

And now, some context for folks as to why I am so intense about this. To the point that, yeah, it could look like fear mongering even though I don't intend it to be so. This reason is that I play a lot of civilization type games, and study the resource flows and expenses involved with running systems at that level and lower, and also play quite a few civ quests on this forum. I have particularly intense experience with resource crunches, they are pure molten salt and I do not want to deal with it.

A/N said:
I wanted to use Minor actions to try getting the dragon, and now we won't get to pick them :cry:

Kinda worried about us apparently having to fund our own fief from the start. Our cultivation is about to grind to a halt, methinks. Maybe we could try learning some sort of beuracracy cultivation art.

Either way, unless there is some reason not to, we should go back for more treasures just for funding. Maybe use our domain weapon to try getting the spear, considering its origins.
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For these concerns:

Heizui will not show up if we don't vote to give him more screen time but he will if we vote for him(That's what I understand Yrsillar's statement at the end of the update to mean). Now, I will be honest and say we may not choose to vote for him, but there is a pretty decent population of people(me included actually to a limited, mostly curious, degree) who are interested in binding him so he is still in the cards. Don't loose hope!

We won't, or very well shouldn't need to entirely fund our own fief out of pocket, that's just bad business. However, having resources to use is going to be a godsend. And I do not mean this lightly. Having a nest egg is something I actually put as about as important as getting a solid position in the top 8 in the tourney.

I do think our cultivation is going to slow pretty precipitously in the initial set up of our fief, just due to the weight on our time that's going to be. Not unsurmountable with careful planning and optimization of time, which this thread is really really good at.

The spear... is a really big risk. As in, I don't think that even if we could that we should. That smells like Protag bait, of the kind where they need their ass pulled out of the fire by the Heavens.
 
Klaus said:
Well, I was originally going to go for a nice, practical, Lucerne Hammer, but I thought people would find the scythe more stylish.(I just called it a "war" scythe and gave it the Lucerne Hammer's stats anyway. ;))
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A war scythe is an actual thing, typically reforged from regular scythes and used by peasants.

So, the established nobility might look down on us for using one, but do we actually care?

That said polearms generally aren't considered quick weapons so if we want something initiave based a dagger might be more fitting.
 
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