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Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest

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[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X] [MAIN] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[] [SEC] More Farming.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Cernn)

Settlements because I'm curious if a 15/15 province will give anything. The 12/15 province gave a Passive Policy after all.
It also gives us a bit extra Econ regen now that the Ice Age has gone down.

Support for the Cernn because while they don't need to give up their militia ways, we should at least help them develop some kind of Sacred Warrior to help support their claim of being civilized. Vassals don't seem strong enough for a war right now.

Approval for:
[] [MAIN] More Farming.
[] [MAIN] Build Aqueduct = (Greenbay)

As a way of finishing the Pacifist/Internalist quests quickly instead of needing to hope the Provinces will do MAIN Farming after downgrading to 2 actions.
Decisively supporting the Pacifist demands and pushing for internal development also sends a message.

Although I suppose we could:
[] [MAIN] Academy

Edit:
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Agriculture+Agriculture->Foreign+Glory)
[X] [SEC] Venerate the Goddesses

A bit more focus on external diplomacy and some prestige to make our administrative capabilities less brittle seem fine. As does a light touch on mitigating the fallout of our Cadlon's controversies.
I'm still gunning for getting Greenbay to 15/15 though.
 
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[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X] [MAIN] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] More Farming.
[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Cernn)
 
Ice age is down to 1d6 econ damage and half-temp econ regeneration, so do we still need farming?

[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Caradysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)

small, but necesary steps.

[X] [MAIN] Trade Expedition = Caradysh

or larger steps, for that matter, if the others approve.
 
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[X] [SEC] Explore Lands = Cursed Forest
[X] [SEC] Explore Lands = Southern Lowlands

[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Boarfolk Nomads
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Lowlander Tribes
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = Thurezea

[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Boarfolk Nomads
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Lowlander Tribes
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Bruraysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Diondairysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Fordysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Fornn
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Hamefordysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Sinsearysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Thurezea

[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors

[X] [SEC] Support Subordinate = (Cernn)
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Eastern Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[] [MAIN] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)

Assemble a Grand Coalition to attack the Caradysh from all sides and contact their new conquests to fund rebels.

[] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
 
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I really don't want to go to war with the Caradysh. Their opinion after we didn't go to war is now cautiously optimistic! That's good! It means they don't want war! It has been generations since we fought, they have a new leader, could we please try to play nice? Better to at least see what they are currently like, if they are still really evil, I'm fine with eventually trying something, but give them a chance. Don't be kneejerk reactionary buffoons who start needless wars.
 
We need to do at least a SEC Venerate for stability, preferably a MAIN. 1/3 stability is not enough when multipul factions are calling for war.
 
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Oshha said:
Too many settlements along the Cursed Forest remain unwalled while the numbers of the Catclaws and Cateyes are too few to match the sheer amount of undead that the Caradysh have.
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Which provinces border the cursed forest? Definitely something to work on.

[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Eastern Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Explore Lands = Cursed Forest

Approval:
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Lowlander Tribes
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Bruraysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Diondairysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Hamefordysh
[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = Sinsearysh

Illusion of Eris said:
they have a new leader
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Naivety.

Edit: Strategic Voting to block the poorly thought out venerates.
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X] [MAIN] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
 
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Maybe they don't, but again, don't just assume that they are evil. Please, think about it. They have not done anything bad that we know of for a long time, their opinion of us is now cautiously optimistic after not declaring war, does that really seem like the actions and thoughts of puppy kicking baby eating irredeemable monsters? It doesn't to me. Warring with them is foolish, irresponsible nonsense that could very well collapse our civilization if it goes even the slightest bit wrong. We are still in a Little I've Age for Gods sake! They are extremely powerful, and we are unlikely to win, if you want purely pragmatic reasons to make peace, and work on eliminating our cultural blindness towards the potential for them to do anything not evil. Again, refusing to admit that they could do any good just makes you appear deluded.
 
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noncannon said:
Ice age is down to 1d6 econ damage and half-temp econ regeneration, so do we still need farming?
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Temp Econ at 20 and the Ice Age could intensify again on a bad climate roll.
It seems like a good idea if we plan on doing anything that's heavy on the Temp Econ, like Megaprojects or multi-settlements.

Econ drain from vassals also seems to have increased from 4*4 to 6*3.
 
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nat_401 said:
We need to do at least a SEC Venerate for stability, preferably a MAIN. 1/3 stability is not enough when multipul factions are calling for war.
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We do have some time in that respect, and the Province Policy might end up doing a SEC Venerate + SEC Farming(though it might do a MAIN Farming instead).

Random Member said:
The only reason they don't eat babies is because it's more efficient to turn them into zombies!

Also they don't kick puppies because Urth likes dogs.... but I bet they kick kittens!
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Nah. It's more efficient/sustainable to raise the babies to adulthood and produce offspring before using them as a sacrifice to power some kind of ritual. That way, you get a skeleton, secular magic fuel and the start of another skeleton and more secular magic fuel.
 
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors

Helps keep several factions content.

[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses

Good chance of improving our stability, if we want to talk to the Caradysh we will want to stabalize first.

[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Sunrise bay)

Also helps calm down factions.

We just shocked the population several times in some pretty fundamental areas, we should settle our civs population and let them get used the the new status quo before putting them through more.
 
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nat_401 said:
[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors

Helps keep several factions content.

[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses

Good chance of improving our stability, if we want to talk to the Caradysh we will want to stabalize first.

[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Sunrise bay)

Also helps calm down factions.

We just shocked the population several times in some pretty fundamental areas, we should settle our civs population and let them get used the the new status quo before putting them through more.
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The Train Sacred Warriors quests have 4 turn timers. With the Purists being somewhat pleased and the militarists likely to advocate for war with the Caradysh if/when their quest is completed/failed before we make nice with the Caradysh.

If you want to wall up and make factions happy? I'd recommend SEC Build Wall in four different provinces(and downgrade to a SEC Venerate). Finishes the Localist quest for the free expedition(which might hit the Catfolk for the Explorist quest and/or discover a new trade partner to distract the Traderists, balancing out the completion of yet another Isolationist quest).
Donkey Hote said:
The Rock River provinces are the ones that are exposed and so would be a better target for wall building.
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Sunrise might be useful if the Youkai come south or if something bad spills out of the Boarlands.
 
Peace with the Caradysh is the best path forward but that doesn't mean it's an effortless path forward. We need to put in the work to build a strong non-aggression relationship. Also, we need to have some sort of contact with them in order to take their values, which we REALLY want. The little ice age is ending and we don't want to have to take values from the Cernn or any civilisation other than the Caradysh's.

[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Agriculture+Agriculture->Foreign+Glory)

We are at our maximum vassal cap and we're at Prestige 60. If we lose even a single point of Prestige, we'll lose a vassal and that'll cause a crisis. BWe should switch on the Glory passive to build up a Prestige buffer in case something causes us to lose any.

With the little ice age ending, we don't need to worry about temp econ anymore so it's safe to switch out the Agriculture policies. In addition to Glory, we should reinstate Foreign policy so that things run smoothly with our neighbours.

It is highly important that we get our Stability up. We need that buffer to do things that are unpopular in our civilisation but nevertheless necessary. Main+Sec means a high chance of getting at least a little of that buffer back and might be able to get us back to max Stability, which means a full buffer and it continues the golden age counter.
 
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[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Venerate the Goddesses
[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Agriculture+Agriculture->Foreign+Glory)
 
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Andres110 said:
Peace with the Caradysh is the best path forward but that doesn't mean it's an effortless path forward. We need to put in the work to build a strong non-aggression relationship. Also, we need to have some sort of contact with them in order to take their values, which we REALLY want. The little ice age is ending and we don't want to have to take values from the Cernn or any civilisation other than the Caradysh's.

[X] [SEC] Diplomatic Expedition = (Caradysh)
[X] [MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Venerate the Goddesses
[X] [SEC] Switch Province Policy = (Megaproject)

The megaproject province policy is important and not for shinies. We are at our maximum vassal cap and we're at Prestige 60. If we lose even a single point of Prestige, we'll lose a vassal and that'll cause a crisis. Building megaprojects is our most reliable method of increasing Prestige so we should do that and get a good Prestige buffer in case something causes us to lose any.

If we don't have the stats to pay for a megaproject, the Megaproject policy will not take us to the negatives, it'll instead do actions that increase the required stats, so it's safe. Even if it didn't, between our current stats and our income from our passive policy and other sources, we can afford to complete all the megaprojects this turn even taking into account the other actions we're taking. There's no need to worry.

It is highly important that we get our Stability up. We need that buffer to do things that are unpopular in our civilisation but nevertheless necessary. Main+Sec means a high chance of getting at least a little of that buffer back and might be able to get us back to max Stability, which means a full buffer and it continues the golden age counter.
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MAIN + SEC Venerate while continuing to make controversial decisions while propping up governmental authority with grand monuments does not seem healthy on a cultural level.

If we are to seek peace in our time, it would make more narrative sense for the Cadlon to throw her support behind the Pacifists with a MAIN More Farming and tone it down with the grand festivals aimed at smothering critique of the government.

Passive Policy Glory is also a fairly reliable way of building Prestige if you're feeling insecure on that front.
 
Qeqre said:
MAIN + SEC Venerate while continuing to make controversial decisions while propping up governmental authority with grand monuments does not seem healthy on a cultural level.

If we are to seek peace in our time, it would make more narrative sense for the Cadlon to throw her support behind the Pacifists with a MAIN More Farming and tone it down with the grand festivals aimed at smothering critique of the government.

Passive Policy Glory is also a fairly reliable way of building Prestige if you're feeling insecure on that front.
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Venerate the Goddesses is appeasing people through celebration and festivities while also educating people on the will of the goddesses and the way of the Arthwyd. When people are angry and scared when they shouldn't be, when they believe that war is the morally or religiously correct thing to do when it isn't, Venerate the Goddesses is not only good on a mechanical level, it's also ideal on a narrative front. It's the culturally healthiest way to get people on board. Bumping up a faction by 0.1 while leaving our people are angry and unsure why we're pursuing peace is neither effective nor healthy.

You make a good point for Glory. I'll change my vote to change 2 Agriculture passive policies to 1 Glory and 1 Foreign. With the little ice age ending we don't need the extra temp econ so it's safe to switch back that old passive policy and keep us continuously involved in the outside world.

EDIT: Changed my vote. Also, because it's still on Economy policy, it'll do Main More Farming which'll finish the Pacifists quest.
 
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Andres110 said:
Venerate the Goddesses is appeasing people through celebration and festivities while also educating people on the will of the goddesses and the way of the Arthwyd. When people are angry and scared when they shouldn't be, when they believe that war is the morally or religiously correct thing to do when it isn't, Venerate the Goddesses is not only good on a mechanical level, it's also ideal on a narrative front. It's the culturally healthiest way to get people on board. Bumping up a faction by 0.1 while leaving our people are angry and unsure why we're pursuing peace is neither effective nor healthy.

You make a good point for Glory. I'll change my vote to change 2 Agriculture passive policies to 1 Glory and 1 Foreign. With the little ice age ending we don't need the extra temp econ so it's safe to switch back that old passive policy and keep us continuously involved in the outside world.
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People are concerned about the Caradysh having a large populace while the settlements bordering the Cursed Forest lack walls and the Cadlon is betting on the Caradysh no longer being evil. This is not an unreasonable concern, even if the Caradysh have changed.

Religiously speaking, Urth(and by proxy the Caradysh) are considered evil abominations that some of our goddesses waged war against.
Rather than being founded on morals, the actual will of the Goddesses or religious tradition, our peace with the Caradysh is based on the understanding that the foresters have been a force for good for the Lowlanders, their apparent desire for peace and the pragmatic understanding that the Caradysh are too powerful for our Cateyes to defeat in their current state.

I'm not saying you should abandon all attempts to Venerate. I'm saying it would be healthier to tone it down to a SEC Venerate for a lighter touch at getting people on board while using the other two SEC actions to elevate the voices calling for peace.

That aside, outright dismissing the concerns of our populace and refusing to do anything to soothe their fears beyond educating them on why their opinions are wrong and invalid seems a bit nasty.

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Andres110 said:
EDIT: Changed my vote. Also, because it's still on Economy policy, it'll do Main More Farming which'll finish the Pacifists quest.
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Ah, I did not know the Province Stance had a delayed effect.
...yeah, might be better to do something other than MAIN farming in that case. Maybe helping our subordinates with their farming efforts via Support Subordinate. Or sending an expedition to the Catfolk to normalize trade / build aqueducts as part of our internal development to underline Cadlon Calwyn's controversies with a tone of wisdom and foresight . Or doing something to help ease the concerns by adding some walls to add an element of mercy and compassion to her reign.

EditEdit: Wait, derp. Province Economy + Passive Glory. I see what you did now. My bad.
Not sure if Provinces will do MAIN Farming, but there's 3 turns on it so I'd be willing to make a leap of faith so to speak.
 
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Umm, I don't see how what the undead did was kind, they basically just farmed bodies from them. That's exactly what a long term thinking evil empire would do.
 
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