So you're refusing to clarify on the difference but maintain that I have somehow mischaracterized you. Classy.
If your point is that we are free to do whatever we want because we're strong enough to endure any crisis, why are you arguing that it is important to spend the action scoping out the Lowlands in case there is a crisis brewing in the Lowlands? As opposed to spending the action on replenishing our depleted Temp Econ pool, filling out our maps or improving our understanding of metal/magic.
You said this:
"We are strong, we should be able to handle the next crisis. Information or not. "
In your last post in which we were discussing possible avenues for invasion and I corrected you on the strength of the Zaradysh. By taking this to its logical conclusion, basically any action taken next turn doesn't really matter besides personal preference by your interpretation of us being strong enough to handle any crisis.
Regardless, it seems that nothing more will come out of this but worsening whatever negative opinion you seem to have of me, so I'll bow out here. Take it as a concession if you wish.
Regardless, it seems that nothing more will come out of this but worsening whatever negative opinion you seem to have of me, so I'll bow out here. Take it as a concession if you wish.
From my reading, this is you saying that your post hinges on the assumption that making decisions without information means making decisions without information.
Overall, your post seems to hinge on the assumption that any choice made without up-to-date information on what the other factions are currently doing is automatically bad somehow.
is me inferring assuming that you used that assumption and are operating under the assumption that this is a bad thing. Because you seem to be advocating in against making decisions without up-to-date information.
If you consider my assumption to be incorrect(calling disingenuous assumes intent and I'll in turn thank you to not put words in my mouth)? Please explain how "a guessing game at best" is not a negative judgement about acting without up-to-date information.
You said this:
"We are strong, we should be able to handle the next crisis. Information or not. "
In your last post in which we were discussing possible avenues for invasion and I corrected you on the strength of the Zaradysh. By taking this to its logical conclusion, basically any action taken next turn doesn't really matter besides personal preference by your interpretation of us being strong enough to handle any crisis.
Might not be relevant considering the above, but I'll try to answer anyway.
Next Crisis. Not any Crisis.
Also said in the context of possible avenues of invasion via land. Meaning things like pirate raids by sea(Merntir 2.0) or droughts are not included(Forluc river pirates are a maybe).
Crisis scope was limited.
The Forluc are distant, maintaining friendly contact with them would be difficult even if we weren't 'Northern Demons' and even if they weren't basically a dark mirror of everything the Arthwyd consider good and wholesome. Projecting force this far North would likewise be fairly difficult.
The lack of refugees appears to be evidence of absence with regards to Caradysh/Forluc/Nomad expansion(by force) into the collapsed Lowlands. Because there aren't people fleeing to the Charitable Haven that is Greenbay.
This leaves a new faction rising out from the collapsed Lowlands. Who, going by the True Zaradysh, aren't a threat.
This means that rather than concentrating on what would be useful in response to the crisis, the logical conclusion is that we can focus on what will be useful to the Arthwyd in the long run. Or at least prepare for larger gains next turn.
Basically, it comes down to the same questions:
1. What gain do we hope to gain from getting an update on the Lowlands' political situation?
2. How does this outweigh the opportunity cost of not taking an extra action to innovate on metal/magic? Or the opportunity cost of doing an Econ grab(with a chance of innovation) to setup for a Megaproject?
Vote is still open and will likely remain open for another day or two. Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 24 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 583-612] ##### NetTally 2.2.0
Task: Mega
[X][Mega] The Census allows two local discoveries to gain prominence. (Gain two Innovations) No. of Votes: 12
[X][Mega] The Census allows two local discoveries to gain prominence. (Gain two Innovations)
[X][React] They send an expedition to assess the current status of the lowlands.
Tech is nice, and i'd rather not go all in on another megaproject if we're not sure we have breathing room. So let's take a look at our neighbors.
[X][Mega] The Census allows two local discoveries to gain prominence. (Gain two Innovations)
[X][React] They send an expedition to assess the current status of the lowlands.
[X][Mega] The Census allows two local discoveries to gain prominence. (Gain two Innovations)
[X][Mega] The Census can be taken a major step further. (Unlocks the Code of Laws megaproject)
[X][React] They send an expedition to assess the current status of the lowlands.
[X] [Mega] The Census allows two local discoveries to gain prominence. (Gain two Innovations)
[X] [React] They send an expedition to assess the current status of the lowlands.
The last generation had been a good one for the Arthwyd. Metal was becoming and more common place as knowledge of how to work copper spreads throughout the Arthwyd whilst magic knowledges continues to increase with the talented Eurwyn leading the way in that area.
While Eurwyn spend her final seasons refining her prior discoveries as she made the memory stones and curing of diseases more efficient. Memory stones could contain more details within them and at smaller sizes whilst healing an illness is less taxing whilst also being more effective.
Of course, that wasn't the only discovery made by the Arthwyd between the completion of the census and Eurwyn's death. In one village, the local priesthood has the bright idea of using memory stones to record information that isn't easily written down but can be recorded as a memory within a memory stone. Another village had its priesthood find ways to greatly refine their truth detection abilities and while they hadn't found a way to get with the usual pitfalls, the priests and priestesses in that village had taken the spell to a degree that it could be used with minimal focus or energy. These two discoveries were quickly proved to be extremely useful to the Arthwyd as a whole and matters were only improved when Eurwyn made her improvements to the memory stones.
Beyond matters of magic and administration, this generation of peace oversaw another major change. For countless generations, the Arthwyd had their cats just as the Caradysh had their dogs and the Boarfolk had their boars. Now the Arthwyd had not just cats, but also birds.
The redwings were a regular sight amongst the wildlife and a staple amongst the kills that the hunters bring home. Bigger than a cat, but smaller than a wolf, the redwings had a decent amount of meat and good feathers for arrows, but were agile little creatures and while they couldn't fly well, they flew well enough to into trees and other high places to avoid land-based predators.
Now they lived amongst the Arthwyd as pets. It wasn't an overnight thing, but it slowly happened over time. It started with a village or there feeding some of the wild bird and then the redwings got used to the humans. They began to move amongst the buildings of the village like the cats once did and the villagers accepted them as part of life even if they were less eager to let them into their actual homes like they do with cats.
***
Blodwyn is of the Arthwyd, but as one of the Birdfolk, she knows that some of her ancestors were once lowlanders. And just as her ancient ancestors once walked these lands, so does Blodwyn.
When Cadlon Carys first announced the expeditions into the lowlands, Blodwyn was too young to go along as the woman was still in the middle of her training as a Cateye. Seasons had gone by whilst Blodwyn had missed the first expedition, she was more than capable of going on the second one, having more than proved her worth as a Cateye.
Being so far away from civilisation is both incredibly exciting and terrifying for Blodwyn. It is one thing to be in the wilderness when an Arthwydish village isn't that far away, but here in the lowlands, it is a full journey to get back to Arthwydish territory.
With no way to reach home quickly or easily, the expedition is entirely dependent on what supplies they brought with them and what they can find out here in a mixture of wild lands and barbarian lands.
This is the seventh expedition that the Arthwyd have sent to the lowlands, the sixth expedition that Blodwyn has taken part in and third that she has been put in charge of. At this point, the winged woman feels both confident and comfortable being in the lowlands and so far away from civilisation.
On this expedition, they have made their way down the Green River, stopping at the point where the Boar River of the east and the Lake River of the south merged to form the Green River, where it would flow all the way down to Green Bay and the sea.
Setting up camp as this conflux, the expedition branched out as they explored the lands around them and made contact with the locals. That last bit was easier these days as while there would always be at least a few fools amongst the barbarians, the majority had learnt not to mess with the sacred warriors of Arthryn and her Daughters. Those that did not learnt the hard way why they shouldn't do that, such as the barbarians that had previously been living at the conflux.
Taking a bit of her smoked fish with her beak and adjusting her wings, Blodwyn turns to the other leaders within the expedition as they gathered around the campfire to both eat their meals and discuss all that they have uncovered.
"The Zaradysh?" inquires Blodwyn once she has shallowed, glancing towards Arryn as he has been the one investigating what remains of the Zaradysh.
Whilst some remain amongst the Maradysh, other survivors of Zaradysh had chosen to flee back into the lowlands following the failures of Zandis Brianna. Taking up some of their ancestral lands, they currently reside east of the Green River, north of the Boar River and north-east of the conflux where the expedition current resides.
"Barely worth the name," answers Arryn, "They only stand out because they got some manner of organisation and social cohesion. Basically, a collection of barbarian villages who all call themselves the Zaradysh and fight other barbarians instead of each other. No Zandis, no high chief and no anything for proper leadership."
"Do they propose a threat?" asks Blodwyn.
"No," answers Arryn without hesitation, "They are like the rest of the barbarians in the lowlands except with more organisation and well-known history. They would be crushed by anyone more significant than these lowlanders."
"I see," says Blodwyn before turning her attention to the rest of those around the campfire, "And our more troublesome concerns?"
"The Boarfolk are uninvolved in the lowlands in any significant force," says Tedwyr, "You got a handful of small tribes wandering about and a few traders from beyond the Sunrise Mountains, but I doubt that is more than a thousand of them in the lowlands at any point."
"I would say that the Forluc are a bigger concerns," says Eryn as Tedwyr finishes, "Whilst their empire in the north collapsed between the drought and the plague, the Forluc themselves endured it well enough and whilst the southern half of their empire was the weaker half, it has survived. And now that things have calmed down, they are looking to reclaim the northern half of their empire except they are doing it themselves instead of using other barbarians."
"How so?" inquires Blodwyn, giving Eryn her full attention.
"They are expanding into the northern lowlanders using their own people," answers Eryn as she as meets Blodwyn's gaze, "They drive out any other lowlanders they come across and then found their own settlements full of Forlucans. They haven't gotten far, but that is only a matter of time."
Blodwyn has to admit that the news is concerning. They have only really had second hand information on the Forluc at best, but all of it indicates that the Forluc are arrogant, immoral barbarians who have deluded themselves into thinking they are civilised due to having the trappings of proper civilisation. With divine magic that lets them wield light as a weapon and having both tamed wild beasts and given said beasts magical power, it is clear that the Forluc are a far more dangerous breed of barbarians.
"I have equally bad news," says Cranrog, "The Caradysh are doing the same as the Forluc except they are expanding to their east rather than to their north."
"How?" demands Blodwyn sharply as Cranrog gets everyone's attention with his words and different possibilities race through Blodwyn's mind.
"Lies and trickery," answers Cranrog, "At some point, those Urth-taken monsters took a bunch of lowlanders captive and then raised the children from them. Those children are brainwashed into believing that the Caradysh are all moral and right because that is all they are taught growing up and they don't know better. The Caradysh are using them as proxies to expand into the lowlands. From what we discovered, the Caradysh claim to provide them with protection and leadership and in exchange, their servants just have to give up their bodies to them when they die. Which is apparently the Caradysh being very generous and benevolent."
"Monsters," growls someone and Blodwyn wholeheartedly agrees.
***
What does Cadlon Carys have Blodwyn do in the lowlands?
[] [Diplo] Blodwyn reaches out to the Zaradysh.
[] [Diplo] Blodwyn reaches out to the Forluc.
[] [Diplo] Blodwyn establishes a trading outpost at the conflux.
Priests (5) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Mystic, Objective: Build the Temple in 4 Turns, Success/Failure: +3 Temp Econ/-
Elders (2 (3)) = Mood: Uncertain, Ability: Add half of their faction power to another faction, Objective: Build one more Palisade in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: +2 Temp Econ/-1 Temp Econ
Warriors (5) = Mood: Pleased, Ability: Add half of faction power to Martial, Objective: Increase Martial within 4 Turns, Success/Failure: +1 Palisade/-
Farmers (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Econ, Objective: More Farming, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
Crafters (1) = Mood: Happy, Ability: Add half of faction power to Culture, Objective: Venerate the Goddesses, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
You have two Secondary Actions. Two Secondary Actions make a single Main Action. No plan voting or write-ins.
Please tag actions as [SEC] & [MAIN].
You got some more information on what is going on in the lowlands and a diplo hero to go along with it. I will post a map shortly so you got an up to date one to reference. In summary, a remnant of the Zaradysh is holding on while the Forluc and Caradysh are both expanding into the northern lowlands.
You also got a bunch of magical innovations, mostly upgrades to stuff that you already got. Another innovation that you got which is non-magical is some poultry or at least tamed birds. If you try to look up what redwings are, you aren't going to be able to because I made them up and they are original to this setting.
On another note, we are back to Admin hero free main turns so you get to see the action list again.
Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.
The Arthwyd Early Ancient Theocratic Elective Monarchy UpperCentralisationLimit: 8 Lower CentralisationLimit: -2 Admin Strain Free Provinces: 4 Penalty Accumulation: Additional +2 Lower Centralisation required per 1 Province Player Actions: 2 Secondary Actions +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces Province Actions: 1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces. Subordinates: 1 Special: -1 Temp Econ Damage per a Province Special: Free Subordinate Slot for Subordinates that share the same religion per a point of Legitimacy. Special: Monarchs are more likely to be competent.
Early Ancient Palace Economy Temp Econ Damage: Event, -1 per 1 Centralisation. Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant. Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces. Additional Actions: None Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse. Special: Increased polity size will raise the level of Minimum Centralisation required.
Values & Legacies Agricultural Innovators: +1 Temp Econ to Farming actions. Ancient Centre of Civilisation (Great Bay): Extra Innovation Roll at the start of each turn, Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls. Rush Builders: Extended Projects take less actions, but each action is more expensive.
Born Equal While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
Pros: Decreased social stratification,
Cons: Decreased social stratification,
Charitable Haven The lands of the Arthwyd are prosperous and peaceful. Free from war, slavery and other forms of suffering, many seek sanctuary in Arthwyd lands in times of turmoil and the Arthwyd are more than happy to grant it.
Pros: Increased Idea Spread, Increased Refugee Arrivals, Gain a Value from current or historical neighbour,
Cons: Reduced Social Cohesion, Many think you weak,
Communal Mandate As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,
Marital Prowess (Linked to Charitable Haven) Your people are renowned for common pregnancies and the resulting large families. Men are encouraged to get women pregnant while women are encouraged to produce plenty of offspring.
Pros: Increased Population Growth, Value familial unit more,
Cons: More mouths to feed,
Sacred Defence The People do not abandon their own for it is their sacred duty to protect each other. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows for that is their duty as commanded by the goddesses.
Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis, Sacred Warriors, Increased loyalty from religious subordinates,
Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger, increased Legitimacy loss when the threat is from those with conflicting beliefs,
Completed Megaprojects
The Census (Neolithic) A grand administrative project to give the Cadlon information about the population such as how many people there are, where they are and what they need to get by in life.
Effects: +2 Temp Stats each Main Turn, -1 Temp Econ Damage,
Extended Sunrise Mountain Passage A grand pathway through the Sunrise Mountains, this passage was carved out over generations with hard work and divine aid. Now it stands completing, forging a safe route overland between the Arthwyd in the south and the Merntir in the north.
Effects: +1 Temp Mysticism whenever a travel-based infrastructure project is completed,
Technologies
Carts
Straw/Reed Rope
Wheel
Wicker
Agriculture
Basic Fertiliser (Primitive Compost & Manure)
Basic Irrigation
Primitive Concept of Growth Energy
Two-Field Crop Rotation
Doing this nets us an additional Province, our second Province, which will in turn net us, if I'm reading the civ sheet right, an additional SEC action and 2 passive actions. This is huge for us.
Edit: It will also get us a Province action which I... don't quite remember how they function. I think they're actions that just kind of happen based on what we've already done but we don't get to pick them. Like a passive action that isn't tied to any particular policy.
[X] [Diplo] Blodwyn establishes a trading post at the conflux.
Doing this nets us an additional Province, our second Province, which will in turn net us, if I'm reading the civ sheet right, an additional SEC action and 2 passive actions. This is huge for us.
Edit: It will also get us a Province action which I... don't quite remember how they function. I think they're actions that just kind of happen based on what we've already done but we don't get to pick them. Like a passive action that isn't tied to any particular policy.
A province action works like a regular action except it is chosen by the QM based on how the civ would try to fulfil the province policy that is currently set.
@Oshha, can we set up the trading post as a cadlon action rather than a hero action? I think it'd be better because Heroic Diplomacy is best used doing proper diplomacy and setting up a settlement is more of a cadlon's thing anyway.
[X] [Diplo] Blodwyn establishes a trading outpost at the conflux.
[X] [MAIN] Settle Land = (Rockbay)
I was already aiming to get two provinces.
[X] [MAIN] Support Subordinate = (Maradysh)
[X] [SEC] Temple
[X] [SEC] More Farming.
Approval for these. Using our Diplo hero to charm the Maradysh sounds like it has a decent chance of outright annexing/integrating our vassal. And starting the Temple while we have a Diplo hero might make it a stronger symbol of pan-Arthrynite unity(SEC and SEC Farming because we lack the Econ for Main Temple. Farming due to Farmer Faction Quest and Agricultural Innovator bonus).
@Oshha, can we set up the trading post as a cadlon action rather than a hero action? I think it'd be better because Heroic Diplomacy is best used doing proper diplomacy and setting up a settlement is more of a cadlon's thing anyway.
The Diplo vote is more of a free thing because Blodwyn is down there in the lowlands and she is giving you that opportunity not Cadlon Carys or the rest of the Arthwyd. It is also not something I am going to add to the Action List because it is a special opportunity that your Diplo Hero is giving you due to the current circumstances. She sets it up now or it doesn't get set up.
If you want to do the outpost and do a trade expedition, vote the trading outpost in the Diplo vote and then vote for a trade expedition as part of the regular vote.
