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Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest

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Andres110 said:
Non-slaughter genocide is still genocide and still an unforgivable sin.
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And it should not be pursued or done for the sake of it.
If it happens as a side-effect of punishing individuals for committing crimes though? That's a different animal altogether.

Also:
Qeqre said:
[X] [War] Make examples of the remaining Zaradysh.
[X] [War] Exile all of the Zarannists.
[X] [War] Relocate all of the Zarannists.

Punish those who sought to harm the people or send those with incompatible beliefs to go live somewhere else.

Purging the Zarannist Maradysh seems too extreme. Breaking them up and spreading them out amongst the Arthwyd is fine, though relocation makes me think "help them get situated somewhere far away" more than the forced assimilation that it is.

I'm not sure if merely outlawing their goddess will do anything but foster resentment and create a source of stabhits for our civ.

At the same time, they started murdering people simply for the right to oppress people. We should not condone this.
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how nice and not-at-all-dishonest of you to take me out of context. /sarcasm

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10ebbor10 said:
And if we go back in time to that post, we see direct word of QM contradicting your post. There were multiple posts of the QM that illustrated this point, that made clear that there were still large numbers of quasi-civilians among the Zaradysh.

As such, your argument has only 2 options
1) You're deliberatly ignoring the QM's words because it's convenient to your argument to decieve
2) You're deliberatly ignoring the QM's words because you think you get to write the story.
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Oshha said:
I would say that for all intents and purposes, they are civilians even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians. Basically, they are de facto civilians even if they may not be de jure civilians.
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Oshha said:
Qeqre said:
You might be conflating the term "Civilian" with "non-combatant."
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Maybe, but I'm not seeing a meaningful difference between them.
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Qeqre said:
Oshha said:
Andres110 said:
Secondly, and more importantly, the belief that we should execute children is abhorrent.
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Just to be clear, this isn't on the table. Any slaves are automatically free and won't be punished for the actions of those that enslaved them while if you choose to kill any groups, any children would be brought to the Arthwyd to be properly raise rather than get killed. If you choose to exile, the children will go with their families.
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I suspected as such for the slaves and those young enough to classify as innocents. But good to have confirmation.
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Word of QM acknowledges my point on them legally not being civilians and contradicts the assertion that actual children would be killed actually.
 
Qeqre said:
Word of QM acknowledges my point on them legally not being civilians and contradicts the assertion that actual children would be killed actually.
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It clarifies that the GM won't give you the option of killing children. It doesn't change anything about the fact that you advocated for the wholesale eradication, and that you explicitly included children in that.

Also, you're severely twisting the GM's words there. You take a sentence which says

I would say that for all intents and purposes, they are civilians even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians. Basically, they are de facto civilians even if they may not be de jure civilians
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and argue that it means that they aren't civilians and that you were right.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
It clarifies that the GM won't give you the option of killing children. It doesn't change anything about the fact that you advocated for the wholesale eradication, and that you explicitly in that.
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I did not advocate for killing the True Zaradysh over relocation or exile. Although I did advocate against the wholesale eradication of the Zarannists when I said that purging the Zarannist Maradysh seems too extreme.

10ebbor10 said:
Also, you're severly twisting the GM's words there. You take a sentence which says

" I would say that for all intents and purposes, they are civilians "
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Oshha said:
I would say that for all intents and purposes, they are civilians even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians. Basically, they are de facto civilians even if they may not be de jure civilians.
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"Even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians."
"Even if they may not be de jure civilians."

QED
 
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Qeqre said:
"Even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians."
"Even if they may not be de jure civilians."

QED
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Do you not know how those words work?

Edit :
If so, let me explain.

Even if X, then Y means that regardless of whether X is true or false, Y is true.
It is not an acknowledgment that X is true. It's a hypothetical that says that if even if we assume X was true, then Y is still true.

So, what the GM is clearly saying in that sentence is :

"Even if you try to argue that they're not de jure civilians, they are still de facto civilians. For all points and purposes, they are civilians."
It's the GM saying that your argument about legality is irrelevant, so there's no point in acknowledging whether it's true or false.
Either way, these are still civilians.
 
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Qeqre said:
Military personnel is not civilian by definition.

It's why I suggested non-combatant way back when.
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And the GM promptly told you that the difference didn't matter.

I don't know why we're having this discussion. You're trying to create 2 different categories when the GM clearly told you that no such difference existed. Your attempt to redefine people as not-civilian was ruled irrelevant.

I would say that for all intents and purposes, they are civilians even if it can be argued that they are technically not civilians. Basically, they are de facto civilians even if they may not be de jure civilians.
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This is the key part of the sentence. For all intents and purposes, they are civilians. You can argue whatever you want, make up as much pointless terminology as you want, but the GM has clearly said that for all points and purpose, this was the case.
 
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I'm still reading the last page, but back then, the families of the Zaradysh warriors were civilians for all intents and purposes as their participation in the war amounted being part of a migrant horde or being camp followers or whatever you call the people who supported an army on the march during pre-industrial warfare. Even if you technically have grounds to say they aren't civilians due to coming along with the army and providing it with logistical support, there is no reasonable or serious argument to claim that they aren't civilians or whatever amounts to civilians in this era.

If you count technically argue that they are part of the army and therefore targets, my understanding of the Geneva Convention is that they would meet the definition of civilians and would not meet the requirements to count as military personnel or even non-combatants. Deliberately killing them would have count both as a war crime and as genocide under modern international laws even if the Arthwyd wouldn't have been that upset or bothered by killing all of those barbarian heathrens due to lacking modern sensibilities when it comes to what is and isn't acceptable in a war.

Edit: Also yes, the Zaradysh invaders and the Maradysh did have children amongst their ranks because they didn't go celibate just because they were engage in a war.

Edit 2: In summary, the non-warriors that made up the bulk of the True Zaradysh and the Maradysh rebels were civilians under modern laws of war and deliberately killing them would be both a war crime and genocide under modern international law. Now the Arthwyd wouldn't have cared about this and had little qualms with killing the barbarian heathens, especially if they figured it solved the issue of them existing as aggressive and belligerent neighbours, but it would still be genocide and at least a few war crimes under modern international law.
 
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[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
[X] [MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)

Not sure about turning every vote into an ethics debate, seems like it would sap out all the fun pretty quick.
 
On Prestige, the Glory Passive Policy and promoting the Arthwyd Empire and/or Arthwydish culture.

In theory, it is possible to use them to promote good values and beliefs within the Arthwyd and reinforce them. It is equally possible to avoid getting arrogant and hubristic from doing those things. That said, you have to be careful on the subject to make sure you are selling the right message. The line between promoting your values as being good and just promoting yourselves as being good is one that can get blurred just as the line between pride and arrogance is easily blurred. Furthermore, focusing on prestige, pride and glory can potential result in your people just valuing those things on their own, viewing them as the end rather than the means to an end. It can also result in elitism, social stratification and xenophobia as

Now, it is possible to thread the line and to a degree, it is encouraged to do so reinforce your cultural and social beliefs and even spread them to others. However, doing so always runs the risk of going from promoting the reasons that make you good to just promoting yourself as good and similar slippery slopes. You also have to be careful that your people don't even up drinking your own kool aid lest they take your propaganda as the honest truth.

You'll also want to avoid this because it is an easy pitfall to end up in if you aren't careful and vigilant against it:
 
The vote is now closed.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 139 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3466-3533]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: SEC

[X][SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
No. of Votes: 12
[X] argenten
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] demonthese2211
[X] Donkey Hote
[X] Guliang
[X] Ifraka
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] sunrise
[X] UwU

[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 10
[X] argenten
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] demonthese2211
[X] Guliang
[X] Ifraka
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] UwU

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
No. of Votes: 10
[X] argenten
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] demonthese2211
[X] Guliang
[X] Ifraka
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] UwU

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
No. of Votes: 6
[X] argenten
[X] demonthese2211
[X] Ifraka
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] UwU

[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
No. of Votes: 4
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] Guliang

[X][SEC] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Donkey Hote
[X] sunrise


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 7
[X] sunrise
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] demonthese2211
[X] Ifraka
[X] Qeqre
[X] UwU

[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
No. of Votes: 7
[X] Donkey Hote
[X] demonthese2211
[X] nat_401
[X] Qeqre
[X] Random Member
[X] sunrise
[X] UwU

[X][MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 4
[X] Illusion of Eris
[X] Andres110
[X] bobbya1
[X] Guliang

[X][MAIN] Build Aqueduct = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] argenten


Total No. of Voters: 13
 
Rolling for tie-breaker between 1/[MAIN] Expand Econ and 2/[MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors.
Oshha threw 1 2-faced dice. Reason: Tie breaker Total: 2
2 2
 
Oshha said:
Purists (0.9/10) = Goals: No barbarians and their ways, Mood: Concerned, Ability: -1 Diplo per 2 Faction Power, Objective: Make peace with the Caradysh Empire, Success/Failure: +1 Temp Econ/-
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Casual reminder that the xenophobic bigots were the ones calling for peace with the Caradysh back when the priesthood was calling for a holy war in 1910.

Also that doing a double trade expedition means more contact with barbarians and their ways. Which goes against the principle desire of the Purists as a faction.
 
They are still Xenophobic bigots who are only not racists because the word hasn't been invented yet. I despise them and want them to never have any power. Let's not go the way of PoC!
 
Stop: Stop
  • Staff Post
    • stop
    Qeqre said:
    The children in question are the ones old enough to have picked up a weapon and bash someone's head in at the start of the war.
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    Kindly do not argue for the moral legitimacy of genocide (or 'merely' for the moral legitimacy of ethnic cleansing). You can play an evil character path. You may argue for the mechanical advantages of committing atrocities within a game, you may simply vote to do so without explanation. You should not suggest that mass murdering civilians is morally legitimate, nor that attempting to eliminate a culture through forcible assimilation is morally legitimate. You've been infracted for 50 points under rule 2 and given a 3 day threadban.
     
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    2030 AG - The Coughing Plague
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
    [X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
    [X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
    [X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
    [X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)

    Merntir: Roads & Boats
    Maradysh: Walls & Temples
    Caermyr: Roads
    Grythwyd: Walls & Exploring
    Raradysh: Farming & Walls
    Zaradysh: Shrines, Trails & Centralisation
    Tordysh: Farming & Expansion
    Cernn: Walls & Temples
    Lorvysh: Farming & Shrines
    Forluc: Temples & Farming
    Forden: Trading & Farming

    "How many more victims now?" demands Priestess Lynis as she and Priestess Margyd stride through the corridor of the Night's Leaf temple.

    "Seven more in the last dozen days," replies the younger woman, "No one other than Caron has died so far and he was old enough that age could have sent him to the Goddesses instead of the plague."

    "Thank the Goddesses for small mercies," says Lynis.

    "Thanking the Goddesses is right," says Margyd, "I am not sure if you have heard, but the only reason that more have not died is because the victims are being treated with Holy magic. Gyrth has made it quite clear that without proper treatment, not all of the victims would recover naturally."

    "I have heard," replies Lynis, "Gyrth has not been quiet about his findings."

    "He is just being prudent in making sure that his discoveries don't go unnoticed, which is good because they are important," says Margyd, "And it ensures that nobody does anything stupid like try to stay at home or hide their sickness to avoid wasting our time and resources."

    "Never underestimate the foolishness of people, especially when it well-intentioned," disagrees Lynis, "I am sure that we will get at least one well-meaning individual who will try to avoid coming to us because they feel that they are strong enough to get through the plague on their own and don't wish for us to waste resources on them. Not that it would be a waste, but that is how they view it."

    "I hope you are wrong Lynis," Margyd tells the older woman.

    "So do I," replies Lynis, "But I fear that I am not. In any case, I still have my duties to attend to."

    "As do I," replies Margyd as Lynis begins to a different route, "May Ymarn's Wisdom be with you."

    "And may Arthryn's Guidance be with you," replies Lynis as she moves out of site.

    Margyd reflects on how things have been going recently. The Coughing Plague has continued to beleaguered the Arthwyd for a good number of seasons now and while it was not anything that Arthryn's chosen could not handle, the Coughing Plague had proven annoying hard to stamp out.

    While the Coughing Plague leaves the victims with severe coughing, headaches and stomach pains, it took time for those symptoms to manifest or so the likes of Gyrth claimed. Whatever the cause, the sickness is able to spread on undetected so while the priesthood is able to deal with the Coughing Plague once a victim is identified to have it, they have been unable to stem the spread of it.

    No one is sure of where it started initially, but the unfortunate reality is that the Coughing Plague has spread across all of the Arthwyd Coast and unless a miracle happens, its spread will extend to the Lowlands, the Western Coast and the North Coast if it hasn't already reached those lands.

    Yet life went on as Margyd only had a small window of time to get some porridge in her belly before she had to meditate a disagreement between two of her neighbours.

    ***​

    The Arthwyd Empire was going through a rougher period compared to the last few generations yet it could take some solace in the fact that the Caradysh Empire was doing worse. While the Coughing Plague was unpleasant thing, it killed few people and thanks to how the Arthwydish government and society is set up, it was more of an annoyance than a threat to the people of the north.

    Meanwhile the Nersondurans had intensified their raids into the Caradysh Empire as more and more of them sought glory and riches in the Lowlands. While the Caradysh Empire was an easily defeated foe, its tactic of overwhelming the invaders with sheer numbers of mindless undead was apparently faring poorly.

    The Bruraysh and Forzea had been hit the worst as the regions of the Caradysh Empire furthest south and therefore the closest to the Far South. While the Caradysh Empire had been able to successfully drive out any Nersonduran attempts to settle in the Lowlands, they had proven unable to stop the raids. The Arthwyd had been unable to determine what this meant, but it did mean that the lowlanders within the Caradysh Empire were quite eager to buy weapons and other items of war as they began to look to their own defence rather than relying upon undead abominations to keep them safe.

    While the Arthwyd themselves did not use them, bronze and copper weaponry were in high demand by foreigners and the barbarian traders seemed to always seek tools of war over anything else. What message to get from that was debatable though the overall thought lean towards it being a result of the warlike nature of uncivilised barbarians. A few brought up the possibility of adopting metal weapons for the Catclaws and Cateyes, but that school of thought soon flickered out as attention was directed towards other pursuits.

    Such as admiring what the ageing Seonaid had done with the Zaradysh as she had turned the Zarannist priesthood within the Zaradysh from a disorganised mess into a proper organisation. The reformed priesthood wielded power and influence that exceeded the local chiefs and could match the Zandis in terms of authority. Most of all, Seonaid was still amongst the living and showed no signs of stopping.

    Meanwhile other regions of the Arthwyd Empire had come to accept peace with the Caradysh Empire as the status quo or at least deemed the possibility of invasion low enough that they were willing to expend time, manpower and resources in other pursuits.

    Conservatives (9/10) = Goals: Stability and the status quo, Mood: Neutral, Ability: +1 Passive Policy per 4 Faction Power, Objective: Build 6 Roads in 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Colony/Temp Econ----
    Gerontocrats (1/10) = Goals: Empowerment of the Elders, Mood: Angry, Ability: Econ+ per 1 Faction Power, Objective: Support the Grythwyd within 2 Turns, Success/Failure: -/Temp Econ-
    Theocrats (4.3/20) = Goals: Empowerment of the Priesthood, Mood: Very Happy, Ability: +1 to Mystic per 1 Faction Power, Objective: Build 2 Libraries in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Study Magic/-
    Monarchists (7.1/10) = Goals: Empowerment of the Cadlon, Mood: Satisfied, Ability: Free Secondary Action per 5 Faction Power, Objective: Empower the Cadlon in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Temp Econ++/-
    Centralists (7.2/10) = Goals: Increased centralisation, Mood: Neutral, Ability: +1 to Upper Centralisation Limit per 3 Faction Power, Objective: Build 5 Roads in 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Road/Temp Econ--
    Localists (5.2/10) = Goals: Decreased centralisation, Mood: Happy, Ability: -1 to Lower Centralisation Limit per 3 Faction Power, Objective: Build 2 Aqueducts in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Road/-
    Militarists (3.1/10) = Goals: Stronger military and increased warfare, Mood: Pleased, Ability: Martial+ per 2 Faction Power, Objective: Build 3 Walls in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Road/-
    Isolationists (1.1/10) = Goals: No interactions with foreigners and their lands, Mood: Upset, Ability: Diplo- per 2 Faction Power, Objective: Avoid contact with the Nersondur for 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Temp Econ+/-
    Explorists (8/10) = Goals: Exploration of the world, Mood: Neutral, Ability: +1 to Exploration Rolls per 1 Faction Power, Objective: Make contact with a new people in 5 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Stability/Temp Wealth--
    Traderists (7.1/10) = Goals: Thriving trade networks, Mood: Appeased, Ability: Wealth+ per 1 Faction Power, Objective: 2 Build Boats in 2 Turns, Success/Failure: Temp Wealth+/Temp Wealth-
    Internalists (5.1/10) = Goals: Internal development, Mood: Pleased, Ability: +1 Econ per 1 Faction Power, Objective: Build 2 Aqueducts in 3 Turns, Success/Failure: Free Sacred Forest/-
    Pacifists (7.3/10) = Goals: No violence or offensive wars, Mood: Pleased, Ability: Chance relative to faction power to negate Stability loss while at peace, Objective: Build 1 Libraries within 1 Turns, Success/Failure: Free More Messengers/-
    Purists (1.3/10) = Goals: No barbarians and their ways, Mood: Pleased, Ability: Diplo- per 2 Faction Power, Objective: Build 3 Walls within 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Temp Econ+/-
    Action List You have one Main Action and four Secondary Actions. Two Secondary Actions make a single Main Action. No plan voting or write-ins.
    Please tag actions as [SEC] & [MAIN].

    You will want to get more Temp Econ than you lose to avoid Bad ThingsTM.

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Build Boats
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Diplo+, Temp Wealth++, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Econ--, Temp Diplo+, Temp Wealth++, Additional Effects, Chance of Innovation,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Build Aqueduct = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ--, +1 Aqueduct (Econ+ per 3 Aqueducts),
    M: Temp Econ---, +2 Aqueducts (Econ+ per 3 Aqueducts),
    -Possible Targets: Greenbay (3/15), Rockbay (0/6), Sunrise Bay (1/6), Northern Sunset Plains (0/6), Eastern Rock River (0/6), Western Rock River (0/4)

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Build Library = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, Temp Culture-, +1 Library (Tech+ per Library)
    M: Temp Econ----, Temp Mystic-, Temp Culture-, +2 Libraries (Tech++ per Library),
    -Possible Targets: Greenbay (2/15), Rockbay (1/6), Sunrise Bay (0/6), Northern Sunset Plains (0/6), Eastern Rock River (0/6), Western Rock River (0/4)

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Build Roads = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Mystic+, +1 Road,
    M: Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic+, +2 Roads,
    -Possible Targets: Greenbay (2/15), Rockbay (1/6), Sunrise Bay (1/6), Northern Sunset Plains (0/6), Eastern Rock River (0/6), Western Rock River (0/4)

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Build Wall = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ--, +1 Small Wall,
    M: Temp Econ--, +1 Large Wall,
    -Possible Targets: Greenbay (Small: 7/15, Large: 0/15), Rockbay (Small: 6/6, Large: 0/6), Sunrise Bay (Small: 3/6, Large: 0/6), Northern Sunset Plains (Small: 6/6, Large: 0/6), Eastern Rock River (Small: 6/6, Large: 0/6), Western Rock River (Small: 3/4, Large: 0/4)

    [] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (11/11)
    -Agriculture = Temp Econ++ every turn.
    -Arts = Temp Culture+ every turn.
    -Diplomacy = Temp Diplo+ every turn.
    -Education = Temp Tech+ every Turn.
    -Empire = Increases Subordinate loyalty while active. (2)
    -Expansion = +0.5 Settlement Progress every turn.
    -Exploration = Free Exploration roll every turn.
    -Foreign = Free Diplomatic Outreach every turn. (1)
    -Forestry = 0.5 Sacred Forest Progress every     turn. (1)
    -Fortifications = +1 Wall Progress every turn.
    -Glory = +1 Prestige every turn. (1)
    -Infrastructure = +1 regular infrastructure progress every turn. (6)
    -Megaproject = +0.25 Megaproject progress per turn.
    -Military = Temp Martial+ every turn.
    -Religion = Temp Mystic+ every turn.
    -Study = Free Innovation roll every turn.
    -Trade = Free Trade Expedition every turn.
    -Wealth = Temp Wealth+ every turn.
    -War = Free War Party every turn.

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Cultivate Medical Plants.
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Mystic+, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Econ-, Temp Martial+, Temp Mystic+, Chance of Innovation,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Develop Mine = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ--, +1 Mine, Chance of Additional Effects,
    M: Temp Econ---, +2 Mines, Chance of Additional Effects,
    -Possible Targets: Sunrise Mountains (Bismuth: 0/1, Lead/Silver: 2/2, Tin: 2/2), Sunset Mountains (Copper/Silver: 1/1, Lead/Silver: 1/1, Nickel: 0/1), Rock River (Copper: 1/1, Gold: 1/1)

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Diplomatic Outreach = (Target)
    S: Temp Wealth--, Temp Diplo+, Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
    M: Temp Wealth----, Temp Diplo++, Improved Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
    -Possible Targets: Caermyr, Cernn, Grythwyd, Merntir, Maradysh, Raradysh, Tordysh, Zaradysh, Achland (Requires Main), Boarfolk Nomads, Bruraysh, Caradysh, Diondairysh, Forden, Fordysh, Forluc, Fornn, Hamefordysh, Hielwald (Requires Main), Lochanysh, Lorvysh, Nersondur (Requires Main), Sinsearysh,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Empower Cadlon
    S: Temp Mystic-, +1 Centralisation,
    M: Temp Mystic--, +2 Centralisation

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Expand Econ.
    S: Temp Econ++++, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Econ++, Econ+ (6/43), Improved Chance of Innovation,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Explore Lands = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Martial-, Chance of new discovery,
    M: Temp Econ-, Temp Martial-, Improved Chance of new discovery,
    -Possible Targets: Arth Coast, Cursed Forest, Far East (Requires Main), Far South (Requires Main), Great Mountain, North Coast, Northern Lowlands, Sea, Southern Lowlands, Sunset Mountains, Sunrise Mountains, Western Coast,

    [] [MAIN] Found Colony = (Target)
    M: Temp Econ---, Temp Martial-, Temp Mystic-, Temp Culture-, +1 Colony
    -Possible Targets: Sunrise Mountains, Sunset Mountains, Far East

    [] [SEC/MAIN] More Messengers.
    S: Temp Econ-, +1 Messengers, (7/43),
    M: Temp Econ--, +2 Messengers, (7/43),

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Plant Cash Crops.
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Wealth++, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Econ-, Temp Econ-, Wealth+, Temp Wealth+, Improved Chance of Innovation

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Plant Sacred Forests
    S: Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic-, +0.5 Sacred Forest,
    M: Temp Econ----, -2 Temp Mystic-, +1 Sacred Forest,
    -Sacred Forests = 11

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Settle Land = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ----, Temp Martial-, Econ+ Temp Mystic+, +1 Settlement Progress (Mystic++ per 3 Progress in a province, Mystic ++ per Progress in Province),
    M: Temp Econ-------, Temp Martial-, Econ++ Temp Mystic+, +2 Settlement Progress (Mystic++ per 3 Progress in a province, Mystic ++ per Progress in Province),
    -Possible Targets: Greenbay (15/15), Rockbay (6/15), Eastern Rock River (6/15), Western Rock River (4/15), Sunrise Bay (6/15), Northern Sunset Plains (6/15), North-West Sunrise Plains (0/15), Eastern Sunset Plains (0/15), Southern Sunset Plains (0/15),

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Study Magic.
    S: Temp Mystic-, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Mystic--, Improved Chance of Innovation

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Study Metal.
    S: Temp Mystic-, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Mystic--, Improved Chance of Innovation

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Study Nature.
    S: Temp Mystic-, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Temp Mystic--, Improved Chance of Innovation

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Support Subordinate = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ-, Chance of relationship change,
    M: Temp Econ--, Improved Chance of relationship change,
    -Possible Targets: Caermyr, Cernn, Forluc, Forden, Grythwyd, Lorvysh, Merntir, Maradysh, Raradysh, Tordysh, Zaradysh

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Trade Expedition = (Target)
    S: Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth+, Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
    M: Temp Diplo-, Temp Wealth++, Improved Chance of increased relationship, more knowledge about the outside world,
    -Possible Targets: Caermyr, Cernn, Grythwyd, Merntir, Maradysh, Raradysh, Tordysh, Zaradysh, Achland (Requires Main), Boarfolk Nomads, Bruraysh, Caradysh, Diondairysh, Forden, Fordysh, Forluc, Fornn, Hamefordysh, Hielwald (Requires Main), Lochanysh, Lorvysh, Nersondur (Requires Main), Sinsearysh,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Mystic-, Temp Martial+, Chance of Innovation,
    M: Econ-, Temp Mystic-, Martial+, Temp Martial+, Improved Chance of Innovation,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Venerate the Goddesses
    S: Temp Econ-, Temp Mystic++, Temp Culture+, Chance of +1 Stability, Chance of +1 Legitimacy,
    M: Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic+++, Temp Culture+, Improved Chance of +1 Stability, Improved Chance of +1 Legitimacy,

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Wage War = (Target)
    S: Temp Econ-, Chance of damaging target, Chance of losing up to Temp Martial+,
    M: Temp Econ--, Temp Martial+, Greater chance of damaging target, Chance of losing up to Temp Martial++,
    -Possible Targets: -Possible Targets: Achland, Boarfolk Nomads, Bruraysh, Caradysh, Diondairysh, East Men, Fordysh, Fornn, Hamefordysh, Hielwald, Lochanysh, Nersondur, Sinsearysh,

    Mega-Projects
    [] [SEC/MAIN] Academy
    S: Temp Econ--, Temp Martial-, Temp Mystic----, +2 Progress
    M: Temp Econ----, Temp Martial--, Temp Mystic--------, +4 Progress
    -Progress: 0/???

    [] [SEC/MAIN] Sewers
    S: Temp Econ--, Temp Mystic--, Temp Wealth----, +2 Progress
    M: Temp Econ----, Temp Mystic----, Temp Wealth--------, +4 Progress
    -Progress: 0/???

    ***​

    A variety of things this turn. The Zaradysh continue their reforms while the Nersondur continue to successful raid the Lowlands. You got a plague outbreak while the Arthwyd Empire finally begins to accept peace with the Caradysh Empire as the new status quo. Otherwise, not too much to say except your metal weapons are high demand for everyone, but the Arthwyd themselves.

    Please point out any spelling or grammar mistakes that you spot. Please quote them in the thread and explain what you think is wrong so I know what you are referring to. Feel to ask questions for more details and information.

    The Arthwyd
    Ancient Theocratic Elective Monarchy
    Upper Centralisation Limit: 8
    Lower Centralisation Limit: -2
    Admin Strain Free Provinces: 6
    Penalty Accumulation: Additional +2 Lower Centralisation required per 1 Province
    Player Actions: 1 Main Action + 1 Secondary Action +1 Secondary Action per 2 Provinces
    Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
    Subordinates: 2 + Prestige/10
    Special: Gain Crisis Resistance+ per Province
    Special: Free Subordinate Slot for Subordinates that share the same religion per a point of Legitimacy.
    Special: Monarchs are more likely to be competent.

    Early Ancient Palace Economy
    Crisis Damage: Event, Crisis Damage- per 1 Centralisation.
    Wealth Generation: 1 per Dominant.
    Passive Policies: 1 +1 per 2 Provinces.
    Additional Actions: None
    Special: Negative Centralisation or lower than Minimum Centralisation will lead to collapse.

    Stats
    Diplo    : Decent (Very High)
    Econ: Immense Farms and Manpower (Very Low)
    Martial: Good (Below Average)
    Mystic: Effectively Limitless (Below Average)
    Culture: Low (Extremely High)
    Tech: Low (Above Average)

    Wealth: Very Wealth (Extremely High)
    Legitimacy: 3/3
    Stability: 2/3
    Centralisation: 6 (1/11)
    Hierarchy: 4

    Statuses
    Centre of Trade (Caermyr): Temp Wealth+ every Turn.
    Centre of Trade (Greenbay): Temp Wealth+ every Turn.
    Coughing Plague (Medium Plague): d6 Crisis every Turn.
    Expensive Free Labour: All Wealth Costs are greatly increased, +2 to Innovation Rolls,
    King of the Hill: Temp Diplo+ at the start of every Turn.
    Trade Dominance (Bronze Goods): Wealth++
    Trade Dominance (Copper Goods): Wealth+
    Trade Dominance (Gold Goods): Wealth++
    Trade Dominance (Silver Goods): Wealth+
    Trade Deficit (Honey): Wealth--

    Prestige Ranking
    Arthwyd    : 71
    Nersondur = 57
    Maradysh = 46
    Caradysh = 42
    Merntir = 43
    Caermyr = 32
    Forluc = 28
    Grythwyd = 25
    Cernn = 24
    Achland = 22
    Hielwald = 21
    Boarfolk Nomads = 20
    Zaradysh = 18
    Forden = 15
    Tordysh = 14
    Raradysh = 13
    Lorvysh = 12
    Fordysh = 11
    Fornn = 11
    Forzea = 9
    Lochanysh = 8
    Diondairysh = 7
    Hamefordysh = 6
    Sinsearysh = 6
    Bruraysh = 5

    Diplomatic Relations
    Status/Frequency of Contact
    Achland = Independent/None
    -Your Opinion 4/10
    -Their Opinion = 4/10
    Boarfolk Nomads = Independent/High
    -Your Opinion 8.5/10
    -Their Opinion = 8.5/10
    Bruraysh = Caradysh Vassal/None
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 5/10
    Caradysh = Independent/None
    -Your Opinion 2/10
    -Their Opinion = 6/10
    Diondairysh = Caradysh Vassal/None
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 5/10
    Fordysh = Caradysh Vassal/Limited
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 7.2/10
    Fornn = Caradysh Vassal/None
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 7/10
    Forzea = Caradysh Vassal/None
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 7/10
    Hamefordysh = Caradysh Vassal/Some
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 5.5/10
    Hielwald = Independent/None
    -Your Opinion 4/10
    -Their Opinion = 4/10
    Lochanysh = Independent/None
    -Your Opinion 2/10
    -Their Opinion = 2/10
    Nersondur = Independent/None
    -Your Opinion 4/10
    -Their Opinion = 5/10
    Sinsearysh = Caradysh Vassal/Limited
    -Your Opinion 3/10
    -Their Opinion = 5/10

    Subordinates
    7/9 Subordinates
    3/3 Religious Subordinates
    1/1 Colony

    Type/Dependence
    Caermyr = Religious Trade Post/Very Low
    -Your Opinion 9/10
    -Their Opinion = 10/10
    Cernn = Religious Vassal/Very Low
    -Your Opinion 7/10
    -Their Opinion = 10/10
    Forden = Vassal/Middling
    -Your Opinion 6/10
    -Their Opinion = 8/10
    Forluc = Vassal/Middling
    -Your Opinion 6/10
    -Their Opinion = 8/10
    Grythwyd = Religious Colony/Very Low
    -Your Opinion 9/10
    -Their Opinion = 10/10
    Lorvysh = Vassal/Middling
    -Your Opinion 4/10
    -Their Opinion = 9/10
    Maradysh = Religious Vassal/Very Low
    -Your Opinion 8/10
    -Their Opinion = 10/10
    Merntir = Religious Vassal/Very Low
    -Your Opinion 9.5/10
    -Their Opinion = 10/10
    Raradysh = Colony/Middling
    -Your Opinion 6/10
    -Their Opinion = 9/10
    Tordysh = Vassal/Middling
    -Your Opinion 6/10
    -Their Opinion = 9/10
    Zaradysh = Colony/Middling
    -Your Opinion 6/10
    -Their Opinion = 9/10

    Values & Legacies
    Agricultural Innovators: +1 Temp Econ to Farming actions.
    Ancient Bureaucracy: +2 Passive Policies
    Ancient Centre of Civilisation (Great Bay): Extra Innovation Roll at the start of each turn.
    Blessing of Bronwyn: Gain +1 to all Diplomacy Rolls.
    Blessing of Mairyn: Gain +2 to all Exploration Rolls.
    Bronze Blooded: +2 Temp Econ to Econ Generation Actions.
    Chosen of Arthryn: Gain +1 to all Innovation Rolls.
    Colonial Empire: +1 Colony Slot.
    Rush Builders: Extended Projects take less actions, but each action is more expensive.
    Tech Discoverers: +1 Temp Tech to Tech generating actions
    Wealth Discoverers: +1 Temp Wealth to Wealth generating actions

    Born Equal
    While the choices of a person and the world around them can make a person greater or lesser, everyone is born equal to each other.
    Pros: Decreased social stratification,
    Cons: Decreased social stratification,

    Bloodied, but Unbowed (Linked to Charitable Haven) Your people have suffered great loss, but you survive and you will recover. Blows that would break others merely leave you limping and your people have suffered enough of such blows to know how to recover and that they can recover.
    Pros: Better at surviving and getting by in hard times, Bonus to dealing with disasters, Better resilience and recovery after suffering losses,
    Cons: Harsher and ruthless,

    Caretakers of Nature
    The Arthwyd are the guardians of their land and that means looking after the place that they call home. They will safeguard and preserve their lands lest they fail in their duty.
    Pros: Bonus to land management projects,
    Cons: Additional consequences for harming the land,

    Charitable Haven
    The lands of the Arthwyd are prosperous and peaceful. Free from war, slavery and other forms of suffering, many seek sanctuary in Arthwyd lands in times of turmoil and the Arthwyd are more than happy to grant it.
    Pros: Increased Idea Spread, Increased Refugee Arrivals, Gain a Value from current or historical neighbour,
    Cons: Reduced Social Cohesion, Many think you weak,

    Communal Mandate
    As per the words of the goddess, loyalty and kindness to one's people is of the highest importance and even when times are tough or when it is not personally beneficial, one should stick by their community.
    Pros: Reduced Internal Discontent, Increased Resistance to Foreign Intrigue,
    Cons: Increase stability loss from taking actions which harm the People,

    Pioneering Ways
    The world is wonderous and ripe for the taking. The Arthwyd regularly seek out new lands to make them their own as they funnel their plentiful population into the frontier to settle the wilderness.
    Pros: Increased Population Growth, Common Independent Exploration, Common Independent Expansion,
    Cons: More mouths to feed, Common Uncontrolled Expansion,

    Sacred Defence
    The People do not abandon their own for it is their sacred duty to protect each other. They stand by their neighbours and community through thick and thin and do not yield when it comes to protecting their fellows for that is their duty as commanded by the goddesses.
    Pros: Increased Unity during times of crisis, Sacred Warriors, Increased loyalty from religious subordinates,
    Cons: Legitimacy loss when abandoning members of the People to harm and danger, increased Legitimacy loss when the threat is from those with conflicting beliefs,

    Completed Megaprojects
    The Aqueduct
    A series of waterways built throughout the city of Greenbay, the aqueduct allows easy access to fresh, clean water for all those within Greenbay.
    Effects: Reduces True City Upkeep for Greenbay, Bonus to Greenbay's rolls,

    Arthrynite First Temple
    A large stone building that resides on a hill overlooking Greenbay, the Arthrynite Temple is the first temple in the known world. With a centre piece built around stone statues of Arthryn and her Daughters, this temple is one of the holiest places in the world.
    Effects: Increased Stability Gains from Venerating the Goddesses, Temp Mysticism+ every Turn.

    Arthrynite Grand Temple (Tier 2)
    Built in the heart of Greenbay, the Arthrynite Grand Temple is the largest building of its time. Equal in size to a village or neighbourhood, the Grand Temple is both a massive centre of worship for the Arthrynite religion, an extensive administrative centre for the Arthrynite priesthood and a nexus for the power of Arthryn and her Daughters.
    Effects: Enhances the Faction Power of the Theocrats, Doubles of the Mystic Gains of religious actions, Boosts diplomacy with Arthrynites.

    The Census (Bronze Age) (Tier 2)
    A grand administrative project to give the Cadlon information about the population such as how many people there are, where they are and what they need to get by in life.
    Effects: Temp Econ+ every Turn, Temp Wealth+ every Turn, Crisis Resistance++,

    Code of Laws (Bronze Age)
    A standardised set of laws that all of the Arthwyd must follow, these laws are focused on following the teachings and guidance of Arthryn and her Daughters.
    Effects: Increased Loyalty from Religious Subordinates, Reduced Internal Discontent from Arthrynites.

    The Evalynite Walls
    The Evalynite Walls are the first stone walls in the known world and are devoted to Evalyn, the Arthrynite Goddess of Battle. They stand guard around the ancient capital of the Arthwyd and the religious centre of the Arthrynite religion.
    Effects: Bonus to defending walled settlements, Bonus to defending Greenbay,

    First Library
    The Library of Greenbay is the greatest collection of information in the world and the first library. Containing almost countless records, this was the first great collection of information that is semi-available to all.
    Effects: +1 to Innovation Rolls

    Grand Sacred Forest
    A grand forest planted throughout the settlement of Greenbay, this forest is the supposed to be the opposite of the Cursed Forest and is sacred to Arthryn and her Daughters.
    Effects: Additional Temp Mystic+ from Venerate the Goddesses, Bonus to Study Nature,

    Greenbay Palace
    While not as impressive as the Forlucan Royal Palace, the Greenbay Palace does its job just as well. Acting as a centre of administration for the vast Arthwyd Empire, the palace is a boon for any Cadlon.
    Effects: +1 Upper Centralisation Limit, +1 Admin Strain Free Provinces, Crisis Resistance+

    Extended Sunrise Mountain Passage
    A grand pathway through the Sunrise Mountains, this passage was carved out over generations with hard work and divine aid. Now it stands completing, forging a safe route overland between the Arthwyd in the south and the Merntir in the north.
    Effects: Gain Temp Mysticism+ whenever a travel-based infrastructure project is completed,

    Technologies
    Carts
    Lye
    Straw/Reed Rope
    Sustainability
    Wheel
    Wicker

    Agriculture
    Basic Fertiliser (Compost, Manure & Nightsoil)
    Basic Irrigation
    Proto-Black Soil
    Seasonal Crops
    Soil Fertility
    Two-Field Crop Rotation

    Animals
    Cats
    Cows
    Dogs
    Donkeys
    Fowls
    Griffins
    Sheep

    Construction
    Mortar
    Surveying

    Fishing & Boats
    Canoes
    Fishing Nets
    Longships
    Outrigger Canoes
    Rafts
    Sails
    Walnut Oil
    Waterproofing

    Hunting
    Baits
    Live Trapping
    Snares
    Trapping

    Materials
    Bone
    Bronze
    Charcoal
    Coal
    Fired Bricks
    Copper
    Gold
    Silver
    Tin
    Stone
    Wood

    Medicine
    Dosage
    Herbalism
    Proto-Human Anatomy
    Painkillers
    Poisons
    Redstar

    Metallurgy
    Alloys
    Bronze Smelting
    Copper Smelting
    Gold Smelting
    Kilns
    Lead Smelting
    Silver Smelting
    Tin Smelting
    Administration
    Archiving
    Dedicated Messengers
    Memory Stone Record Keeping
    Proto-Indexing
    Planned Settlements
    Stone Record Keeping
    Tally Marks

    Arts
    Earthenware Pottery
    Glazing
    Metal Jewellery
    Stone Carvings
    Vocal Storytelling

    Diplomacy
    Charity
    Expeditions
    Gifting
    Immigrants
    Negotiations
    Refugees
    Trade

    Languages
    Arthwydish (Oral/Written = Logograms)
    Boarfolk (Oral)
    Forluc (Oral)
    Lowlander (Oral)
    Merntirish (Oral/Written = Logograms)

    Leadership
    Big Man
    Cadlons
    Elders
    Elections
    Local Leadership Delegation
    Priests

    Religion
    Priests
    Sacred Animals
    Shrines
    Temples
    Tribute
    Defences
    Palisade
    Stone Walls

    Personal Protection
    Gambeson
    Hide Shields
    Wicker Shields
    Wood Shields

    Organisation
    Dedicated Scouts
    Formal Hierarchy
    Hunting Groups
    Sacred Warriors

    Theory
    Ambush Tactics
    Anti-Boarfolk Training
    Attrition
    Logistics
    Shield Walls

    Weapons
    Bows & Arrows
    Javelins
    Lead Balls
    Maces
    Slings
    Spears
    Divine Magic
    General
    Divine Blessing
    Divine Magic

    All-Seerist Divine Magic
    Future Seeing (Crude Limited)
    Guided Attacks (Basic/Refined)
    Increased Accuracy (Expert/Refined)
    Scrying (Limited)
    Truth Detecting (Expert)

    Arthrynite Divine Magic
    Stone Manipulation (Advanced/Refined)
    Stone Skin (Basic)
    Trait Self-Boosting (Basic)

    Wyrnite Divine Magic
    Inspire (Limited)
    Memory Stones (Expert/Refined)

    Ymarnite Divine Magic
    Disease Cure (Basic/Refined)
    Human Fertility Boost (Limited)
    Increased Weapon Skill (Basic/Refined)
    Plant Fertility Boost (Limited)
    Plant Growth (Basic)
    Wound Healing (Expert/Refined)
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Oshha said:
    Meanwhile the Nersondurans had intensified their raids into the Caradysh Empire as more and more of them sought glory and riches in the Lowlands. While the Caradysh Empire was an easily defeated foe, its tactic of overwhelming the invaders with sheer numbers of mindless undead was apparently faring poorly.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Ouch...
    I guess their zombie hordes doctrine does not do well against small group fights...
    Which honestly is an interesting juxtaposition with our large scale battle problems...
    Oshha said:
    Purists (1.3/10) = Goals: No barbarians and their ways, Mood: Pleased, Ability: Diplo- per 2 Faction Power, Objective: Build 3 Walls within 4 Turns, Success/Failure: Temp Econ+/-
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    On the other hand, looks like the purists are prioritizing defense at the moment, which could make things a little problematic while trying to limit their growth...
     
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