Even if it only gets us to Very Low, that's enough to greatly restrict our options next turn. We don't know how much we'll need next turn and that could bite us very hard. We should get enough temp econ so that no matter what happens, we can afford the solutions without any worries. Best case scenario, nothing happens and we can freely spend as much temp econ as we want without any fear of crippling our ability to respond to crises.
Mate, we dropped from Low to Very Low on temp econ------------------(18) drain between 1970 AG and 1990 AG. I consider it very unlikely that we'll drop below Very Low for 2030 AG on a temp econ---------(9) plan.

As for the great restrictions? It basically means we can't afford to Megaproject or Settle without taking Expand Economy to support the action. And the combination of MAIN aqueducts, SEC wall, two trade expeditions and our x6 infrastructure passives should leave us with a lot of happy factions next turn, so I doubt there'd be a lot of issues on that front.

Swapping MAIN Aqueducts to MAIN Farming would be a +5 temp econ swing, but that will probably leave us with the Theocrat and Centralist quests uncompleted at 1 remaining piece of infrastructure next turn, which could lock up two SEC actions on subsequent turns if the other factions continue asking for Walls, Mines and/or Aqueducts.

The Purists currently don't have the power to make trouble, and giving them what they want when the don't have the ability gives them it. They are not a faction we want to have power.
While true, 1.2 faction power isn't particularly concerning either.

If we want to worry about the smaller factions? I'd be more concerned about the Isolationists quietly pushing for us to avoid further interaction with the Caradysh Empire. Because we don't particularly like the Caradysh or their vassals anyway.
 
So, should we try and get some more study actions in? We seem to have been relatively stagnant on that stuff for awhile now.
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
[X] [MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)

This plan is pretty much a straight up improvement of Qeqre's plan.

11.6: 2 libraries (complete)
10.3: 3 aqueducts (complete)
8.9: 1 mine (complete)
7.1: 3 roads (complete)
7: 1 wall (complete)
4.3 (11.6): 3 libraries (2/3 complete)
This is what the infrastructure end point for both of our plans will look like no matter what, but there is a difference. By doing Main Build Roads instead of Main Build Aqueducts, we get the same infrastructure built but my plan saves us a point of temp econ.

Additionally, we still do 2 trade expeditions and we still increase trade with the Caradysh vassals (if admittedly not by as much), but crucially it saves us a Secondary action. Two trade expeditions and changed passive policy for two actions, compared to Qeqre's plan which requires 3, and in exchange only gives us a single point of Prestige that we are very far from needing. Now, not doing maximum trade with Caradysh vassals is a bit of a downside, but an extra Secondary next turn more than makes up for it.
 
So, should we try and get some more study actions in? We seem to have been relatively stagnant on that stuff for awhile now.
We got a couple of improvements last turn. And the current Theocrat quest reward gives us a free Study Magic.
Militarists are also offering a free innovation roll, on an action that itself has an innovation chance.
Or we could build boats. Maybe the additional effects of MAIN are an increase in trade range.

[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
[X] [MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)

This plan is pretty much a straight up improvement of Qeqre's plan.


This is what the infrastructure end point for both of our plans will look like no matter what, but there is a difference. By doing Main Build Roads instead of Main Build Aqueducts, we get the same infrastructure built but my plan saves us a point of temp econ.

Additionally, we still do 2 trade expeditions and we still increase trade with the Caradysh vassals (if admittedly not by as much), but crucially it saves us a Secondary action. Two trade expeditions and changed passive policy for two actions, compared to Qeqre's plan which requires 3, and in exchange only gives us a single point of Prestige that we are very far from needing. Now, not doing maximum trade with Caradysh vassals is a bit of a downside, but an extra Secondary next turn more than makes up for it.
Keeping a trickle of Glory running is probably useful for future poaching of Caradysh vassals or setting up new Arthwydish colonies. Even if we have some leeway at the moment. It's the same reason we have that Forestry Passive: We don't want to run low when actually need it.
High prestige might also be useful for dealing with Glory cultures like the Nersondurans(and possibly our Zarannist vassals).

Fair enough on the Roads. +Temp Econ is more obviously useful than the narrative effects of the Cadlon prioritizing aqueducts for improving inner city food growth(which could steer the next monarchist quest).
Unsurprised you didn't switch the Hamefordysh trade to a non-Caradysh target. Would've been better for temp econ, but I guess you really don't like the Isolationist/Purist factions.
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
[X] [MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
 
Keeping a trickle of Glory running is probably useful for future poaching of Caradysh vassals or setting up new Arthwydish colonies. Even if we have some leeway at the moment. It's the same reason we have that Forestry Passive: We don't want to run low when actually need it.
High prestige might also be useful for dealing with Glory cultures like the Nersondurans(and possibly our Zarannist vassals).
The passive policies aren't purely about numbers. They change our civilisation's culture over time and, as we found out when questioning about it during the Caradysh war, to a greater extent than manual actions. Glory passive policy was an emergency measure. Leaving it on will make our civilisation care more and more about glory and prestige, which means they become bigger assholes. Putting them on Trade will instead have the Arthwyd making connections and exchanges with other civilisations, which is a good thing.

We'll get enough Prestige from megaprojects, maximising infrastructure (Oshha said we got Prestige for getting full temples), and the wars we'll inevitably have to fight.

EDIT: Not that Trade is sub-optimal when it comes to numbers. The extra information and relations with other civilisations will be very useful in the long term for the Arthwyd.

Fair enough on the Roads. +Temp Econ is more obviously useful than the narrative effects of the Cadlon prioritizing aqueducts for improving inner city food growth(which could steer the next monarchist quest).
Unsurprised you didn't switch the Hamefordysh trade to a non-Caradysh target. Would've been better for temp econ, but I guess you really don't like the Isolationist/Purist factions.
If we're talking narrative, we're best served improving connectivity throughout our burgeoning empire and reaping all the many associated benefits. Empowering the ability for the empire to function as a whole will give greater rewards and long-term stability than focusing on building up the core.

And yeah I quite dislike the Isolationists/Purists, but I also want to further normalise relations with the Caradysh. The more stable our relationship with them, the better.
 
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[X] [MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
 
Last edited:
The vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 139 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3466-3483]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: SEC

[X][SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
No. of Votes: 7

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
No. of Votes: 6

[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 5

[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
No. of Votes: 3

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
No. of Votes: 3

[X][SEC] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 2



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 3

[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
No. of Votes: 3

[X][MAIN] Build Aqueduct = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Qeqre

[X][MAIN] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 1


Total No. of Voters: 7
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
[X] [MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.

Approval voting Main Expand Econ.
 
The passive policies aren't purely about numbers. They change our civilisation's culture over time and, as we found out when questioning about it during the Caradysh war, to a greater extent than manual actions. Glory passive policy was an emergency measure. Leaving it on will make our civilisation care more and more about glory and prestige, which means they become bigger assholes. Putting them on Trade will instead have the Arthwyd making connections and exchanges with other civilisations, which is a good thing.

We'll get enough Prestige from megaprojects, maximising infrastructure (Oshha said we got Prestige for getting full temples), and the wars we'll inevitably have to fight.
Believe it or not, there are a healthy degrees and ways in which one can celebrate achievement without turning into an asshole.

On a cultural level, Trade would could make our culture more materialistic and interested in acquiring exotic goods. Honey Trade wealth reductions and the like. Which is its own brand of toxicity.
If you want to make the "how will this affect our culture" argument? You'd have a better argument with Art and Religion. Also Education and Study to a lesser extent.

That said, I doubt we'll need to worry about the 1X passives when there's a x6 Infrastructure passive dominating the zeitgeist. Even the Elders' attempt to be different seems to have defaulted to our x2 Empire Passive.
EDIT: Not that Trade is sub-optimal when it comes to numbers. The extra information and relations with other civilisations will be very useful in the long term for the Arthwyd.

If we're talking narrative, we're best served improving connectivity throughout our burgeoning empire and reaping all the many associated benefits. Empowering the ability for the empire to function as a whole will give greater rewards and long-term stability than focusing on building up the core.

And yeah I quite dislike the Isolationists/Purists, but I also want to further normalise relations with the Caradysh. The more stable our relationship with them, the better.
If you want Trade for the extra information and relations, you're better off slotting a second Foreign passive. Double down on the existing focus.

Narrative-wise, every settlement is already connected via properly maintained and well-worn trails. I'd rather the Empire prioritize setting up the infrastructure needed to provide food for its citizens than on upgrading the existing pathways into something a little more prestigious.
Boats could be a good way for improving connectivity though.

Some, but not a lot at all hence the warning telling you to try and spend less Econ than you gain. You will want to error on the side of caution.
Appropriately vague. Fair enough.

[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)

There's a few more turns left on the Theocrat/Localist quest timers anyway.

Approval:
[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors

because there's decent odds that the Nersondurans will eventually try to capture Arthwyd citizens as slaves.

...hey @Oshha does MAIN Boats count as infrastructure?
 
Narrative-wise, every settlement is already connected via properly maintained and well-worn trails. I'd rather the Empire prioritize setting up the infrastructure needed to provide food for its citizens than on upgrading the existing pathways into something a little more prestigious.
Boats could be a good way for improving connectivity though.
Roads are a major substantive improvement to trails. It's not a vanity project, the actual difference is quite large. I'm not sure how this isn't obvious given that historical societies built roads instead of leaving everything as trails.
 
Roads are a major substantive improvement to trails. It's not a vanity project, the actual difference is quite large. I'm not sure how this isn't obvious given that historical societies built roads instead of leaving everything as trails.
A sufficiently large trail is indistinguishable from a dirt road.

Given the scale of the Arthwyd and their stoneshaping magic, I'm expecting Road infrastructure to be paved roads.
 
...hey @Oshha does MAIN Boats count as infrastructure?
No.
Roads are a major substantive improvement to trails. It's not a vanity project, the actual difference is quite large. I'm not sure how this isn't obvious given that historical societies built roads instead of leaving everything as trails.
A sufficiently large trail is indistinguishable from a dirt road.

Given the scale of the Arthwyd and their stoneshaping magic, I'm expecting Road infrastructure to be paved roads.
Arthwydish trails are dirt roads while Arthwydish roads are stone paved roads and are a major improvement on the trails/dirt roads.
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
 
[X] [SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X] [MAIN] Expand Econ.
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
[X] [SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X] [SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
 
Guys please stop voting for Main Train Sacred Warriors. We want to save that for next turn so that we weaken the Purists by failing their quest.
 
Their goal is "no barbarians and their ways". They're xenophobic assholes and it is a failing to give them the time of day.
 
The vote is still open.
Vote Tally : Chronicles of Nations Redux - Civ Quest Original | Page 139 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 3466-3493]
##### NetTally 2.2.0

Task: SEC

[X][SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
No. of Votes: 9

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
No. of Votes: 8

[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 7

[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)
No. of Votes: 5

[X][SEC] Change up to two Passive Policies (Glory->Trade)
No. of Votes: 3

[X][SEC] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 2



——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: MAIN

[X][MAIN] Expand Econ.
No. of Votes: 5

[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
No. of Votes: 5

[X][MAIN] Build Roads = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 3

[X][MAIN] Build Aqueduct = (Greenbay)
No. of Votes: 1


Total No. of Voters: 9
 
[X][MAIN] Train Sacred Warriors
[X][SEC] Build Wall = (Western Rock River)
[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Hamefordysh)
[X][SEC] Settle Land = (Greenbay)
[X][SEC] Trade Expedition = (Fordysh)

It'll take a lot of dedicated effort on our part to turn the purists into a legitimate faction. I really don't see that happening so they remain beneath notice.
 
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