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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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Spectre said:
speaking of damage control... whats the chances the Ark Royal gets a captain who isn't such a dumbass he would have raised the navy's collective IQ by actually going down with the ship.
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Some of that was also the fault of the ship designers.

Put a long ass hull way with no bulkhead doors to closes it off in cause of a flood and no back up diesel generators. What could go wrong?

Plus the guy was more worry about his crew getting off which is understandable. Ships are more expandable then well train experience crew that can take years to do compare to months for ships...
 
Firefinder12-B said:
Some of that was also the fault of the ship designers.

Put a long ass hull way with no bulkhead doors to closes it off in cause of a flood and no back up diesel generators. What could go wrong?

Plus the guy was more worry about his crew getting off which is understandable. Ships are more expandable then well train experience crew that can take years to do compare to months for ships...
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try weeks.
edit: granted I'm using the US navies program (which starting in 1948 was 10 weeks) maybe the brits followed Japanese method of training,
 
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Spectre said:
try weeks.
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To get an half ass crew member able to do simple things? Yes.

To get a good well train person who can do his job right?

Like say airmen? Or radio and radar operators?

Try months, for the basic knowledge and troubleshooting the equipment.

For all the tricks of the trade?

Years...

It's a well know fact that military in general will rather loss equipment then men in war. And the above is the reason why.

Once the ship or whatever is out and in service it's basically as good as it going to get without going through major upgrades.

A person? Anyways improving, anyways learning new things to fight better. Who will then in turn teach the new guys the tricks to get the equipment to go 200%.

Hell this was one of those problems with the Japanese in the war. They didn't trading in the pilots to teach the new guys like the US did. Instead they kept them out until they die. Which as shown by midway, which gutted the Japanese Air corps, shown to be a very bad idea. Cause after midway the Japanese naval air corps became a bad joke, admittedly one with a hard punch line, but they never recover like the US did.
 
Firefinder12-B said:
To get an half ass crew member able to do simple things? Yes.

To get a good well train person who can do his job right?

Like say airmen? Or radio and radar operators?

Try months, for the basic knowledge and troubleshooting the equipment.

For all the tricks of the trade?

Years...

It's a well know fact that military in general will rather loss equipment then men in war. And the above is the reason why.

Once the ship or whatever is out and in service it's basically as good as it going to get without going through major upgrades.

A person? Anyways improving, anyways learning new things to fight better. Who will then in turn teach the new guys the tricks to get the equipment to go 200%.

Hell this was one of those problems with the Japanese in the war. They didn't trading in the pilots to teach the new guys like the US did. Instead they kept them out until they die. Which as shown by midway, which gutted the Japanese Air corps, shown to be a very bad idea. Cause after midway the Japanese naval air corps became a bad joke, admittedly one with a hard punch line, but they never recover like the US did.
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Here's the thing about those crews.

if you don't let them even try to do they're job in the first place your better off with a bunch of cadets fresh out of boot camp.

Evacuating all but the essential personnel while DC crews work to fix the ship or by time for the evac is one thing. But Maund didn't do that and by preventing the DC crews from doing their job from the start, as well as failing basic DC operations (like closing the hatches to empty compartments.) Maund was putting his crew in even bigger danger.
 
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Spectre said:
Here's the thing about those crews.

if you don't let them even try to do they're job in the first place your better off with a bunch of cadets fresh out of boot camp.

Evacuating all but the essential personnel while DC crews work to fix the ship or by time for the evac is one thing. But Maund didn't do that and by preventing the DC crews from doing their job from the start, as well as failing basic CC operations (like closing the hatches to empty compartments.) Maund was putting his crew in even bigger danger.
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So several odd years of drills mean nothing? Cause the carrier was a prewar built one. She had crew one her for awhile.

There is a common saying in the military, Basic and AIT (you job school) doesn't teach you how to do your job. They teach you how the job is done, you unit teach you you how to do your job.

Thing is that part of Ark Royal design had NO hatches. That ship wide hull way? The only waterproof hatches wear on the sides where they lead into the boiler compartments. And several of those were damage into leaking cause of the blast, snuffing out several boilers. Add in the fact that she didn't have backups? The British were asking for a paddling for that dumbass design choice.

As soon as she took the hit were she did, the Ark Royal was doomed. At best you will be looking at a beaching with either scrapping on site cause of damages or several months if not years of repairs, since any movement made the hole bigger.

Add in the fact that Maud had no communications on board after the hit? Even the best Damcon will be rendered nearly useless without comms to control everyone. Plus when he order every one off the ship was listing nearly 20 degrees (several minutes after the hit), which is almost the point of no return for most ships, let alone a top heavy one like Arck Royal was. Then you had the fates of the Glorious and the Courageous which sunk fast with most of the crew being on his mind. He wasn't expecting his ship to last long. Which is why he got the crew off as fast as he did, and since they was on the deck they were at the safest place on a sinking ship.

Maund was focus on the Welfare of his crew, plain and simple. Every other carrier sunk to date had the ships taking a large amount of crew with them. He know that, and he did not want his crew to face the same fate. He wasn't an idiot, he was actually quite good at his job. He later made rear admiral, and was important in the development of the landing craft. A dumbass as you put it doesn't, no, CAN'T do that.
 
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sorry. I let my nature get the better of me there.
Its just that the idea of not even attempting to do anything doesn't it well with me, and I can't imagine sat well with the DC crew based on some of their actions. Add to that the general pattern for British Capital ships that were sunk, and I started making assumptions. That and I didn't realize just how bad Ark Royal was designed.
Though I will say on the rear admiralty thing, while it might not be the case here, history is filled with idiots who made that rank (or its equivalent) and higher because of who they knew rather then what they knew.
 
I was reading a few websites and papers on HMS Victorious / USS Robin, Lady Sara's partner in crime for a good portion of 1943. In addition to other little tidbits (such as just how much refitting Victorious needed in order to communicate and operate with USN vessels), I came across this one:

Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript
"One trick we learned after our first trip out. Unlike the RN, whose ships entered harbour in orderly procession, the Americans got to within three or four miles of the entrance, then it was every man for himself. We got caught on the hop the first time, but after that, Capt. McIntosh put the foot down, and we were at anchor before the other big boys got in. This turned into quite a competition, and it was amazing that there were no collisions, but with our speed advantage, only the destroyers had any chance of beating us."​

Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.

With HMS Hood coming stateside soon, it'll be fun to see the culture shock if she's allowed to speak with the USN girls.
 
Deidryt said:
Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.
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I'm now imagining them as those seagulls from Finding Nemo going "Mine, Mine, Mine!". I'm looking forward to Hood seeing how USN ship spirits act compared to her and her fellow RN spirits as well.
 
Deidryt said:
I was reading a few websites and papers on HMS Victorious / USS Robin, Lady Sara's partner in crime for a good portion of 1943. In addition to other little tidbits (such as just how much refitting Victorious needed in order to communicate and operate with USN vessels), I came across this one:

Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript
"One trick we learned after our first trip out. Unlike the RN, whose ships entered harbour in orderly procession, the Americans got to within three or four miles of the entrance, then it was every man for himself. We got caught on the hop the first time, but after that, Capt. McIntosh put the foot down, and we were at anchor before the other big boys got in. This turned into quite a competition, and it was amazing that there were no collisions, but with our speed advantage, only the destroyers had any chance of beating us."​

Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.

With HMS Hood coming stateside soon, it'll be fun to see the culture shock if she's allowed to speak with the USN girls.
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Not a bad bit of insight.
 
Deidryt said:
I was reading a few websites and papers on HMS Victorious / USS Robin, Lady Sara's partner in crime for a good portion of 1943. In addition to other little tidbits (such as just how much refitting Victorious needed in order to communicate and operate with USN vessels), I came across this one:

Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript
"One trick we learned after our first trip out. Unlike the RN, whose ships entered harbour in orderly procession, the Americans got to within three or four miles of the entrance, then it was every man for himself. We got caught on the hop the first time, but after that, Capt. McIntosh put the foot down, and we were at anchor before the other big boys got in. This turned into quite a competition, and it was amazing that there were no collisions, but with our speed advantage, only the destroyers had any chance of beating us."​

Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.

With HMS Hood coming stateside soon, it'll be fun to see the culture shock if she's allowed to speak with the USN girls.
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just to point out Vicky was never renamed USS Robin, she used Robin as her radio call sign but all USN carriers had 2 syllable call signs that rarely matched their name.
 
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Spectre said:
just to point out Vicky was never renamed USS Robin, she uses Robin as her radio call sign but all USN carriers had 2 syllable call signs that rarely matched their name.
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I now have the amusing notion in my head that some of the American Essex class Fleet Carriers who lived long enough to see the show Batman and Robin might make jokes about that to Victorious when they come back as ship girls. Chance for major amusement their, particularly if for a major joke someone decides to dress her up as Robin.
 
Thorthemighty said:
I now have the amusing notion in my head that some of the American Essex class Fleet Carriers who lived long enough to see the show Batman and Robin might make jokes about that to Victorious when they come back as ship girls. Chance for major amusement their, particularly if for a major joke someone decides to dress her up as Robin.
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Which must mean Saratoga is batman.
 
Firefinder12-B said:
One has to be penguin since he had a sub..
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I-6 is Penguin while I-26 is The Joker? Alright, I now have something really amusing in my mind. Victorious playing as Robin, Saratoga playing as Batman, with I-6 as Penguin, and I-26 as The Joker. I am pretty sure you get the picture. Also how about for the lols, I-52 is Two Face
 
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Thorthemighty said:
I-6 is Penguin while I-26 is The Joker? Alright, I now have something really amusing in my mind. Victorious playing as Robin, Saratoga playing as Batman, with I-6 as Penguin, and I-26 as The Joker. I am pretty sure you get the picture. Also how about for the lols, I-52 is Scarface
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1. its two face
2. Why, she's not connected to Sara in any way.
 
Deidryt said:
I was reading a few websites and papers on HMS Victorious / USS Robin, Lady Sara's partner in crime for a good portion of 1943. In addition to other little tidbits (such as just how much refitting Victorious needed in order to communicate and operate with USN vessels), I came across this one:

Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript
"One trick we learned after our first trip out. Unlike the RN, whose ships entered harbour in orderly procession, the Americans got to within three or four miles of the entrance, then it was every man for himself. We got caught on the hop the first time, but after that, Capt. McIntosh put the foot down, and we were at anchor before the other big boys got in. This turned into quite a competition, and it was amazing that there were no collisions, but with our speed advantage, only the destroyers had any chance of beating us."​

Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.

With HMS Hood coming stateside soon, it'll be fun to see the culture shock if she's allowed to speak with the USN girls.
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Sadly, very different in the modern USN (or 1990s, anyway). Was reading the memoirs of USS Benfold's captain ("It's Your Ship"). Apparently he had to leave and enter Pearl in order of CO's seniority. Waiting around one day (junior-most officer), he radioed the admiral, and said he wanted leave for his crew and to save fuel. He got permission to go in ahead, and gunned the engines to the point where little fuel was saved (crew got their leave, though).
 
Deidryt said:
I was reading a few websites and papers on HMS Victorious / USS Robin, Lady Sara's partner in crime for a good portion of 1943. In addition to other little tidbits (such as just how much refitting Victorious needed in order to communicate and operate with USN vessels), I came across this one:

Jim I. Gallie, RN, (HMS Victorious from Mar. 29, 1941 to Sept. 12, 1945): Manuscript
"One trick we learned after our first trip out. Unlike the RN, whose ships entered harbour in orderly procession, the Americans got to within three or four miles of the entrance, then it was every man for himself. We got caught on the hop the first time, but after that, Capt. McIntosh put the foot down, and we were at anchor before the other big boys got in. This turned into quite a competition, and it was amazing that there were no collisions, but with our speed advantage, only the destroyers had any chance of beating us."​

Probably different in the present-day USN, but now I can't stop thinking of WWII era USN fleets following strict, tight discipline in the field... but once within sight of port (or the lunch line), the girls become an unruly mob going for food. All the while, RN girls stare at them with their mouths agape.

With HMS Hood coming stateside soon, it'll be fun to see the culture shock if she's allowed to speak with the USN girls.
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That is hilarious, and I'd be more than happy those such a scene~!
 
Wow, this thread has been pretty slow lately. Besides that this thread reminds me of the final countdown (the movie). It would be a pretty interesting crossover.
 
Yeah! I'm surprised no one has mentioned that film in this thread at all before.
Both have their settings in or around Pearl harbor. The main character(s) is a time traveler and both want to stop the attack on Pearl.
 
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