- Location
- North Carolina
At least it wasn't a Sugar Boat.
Changing Destiny (Kancolle)
- Thread starter Skywalker_T-65
- Start date
At least it wasn't a Sugar Boat.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sugar Boat?
Dark Mage
Sanity is really overrated...
- Location
- Out of My Mind
No, thank you!
I visited the USS Drum, and while not claustrophobic, I don't think I could last an hour before demanding to get out.
- Location
- North Carolina
S-class, they got a couple of nicknames: Sugar Boats, Pig Boats, Death Trap to name a few.
- Location
- Canada
Thompson's front-to-back depth, i.e. belly-to-back height in such a position will be about the height of a male head, (which is about 25cm for skull height, plus a bit for the neck, but this number is irrelevant).
Let's say Skipjack has a 5cm shorter head+neck than Thompson's belly depth due to not being good at these carries, and female heads on average being more compact.
That gives Thompson's ass a maximum of... about 5cm taller than Skipjack standing up, if his ass is draped over her shoulder.
Now since Skipjack is small compared to a submariner (i.e. 10cm shorter than a submariner who need a working headspace of at absolute least 5-10cm), she DEFINITELY has more than enough head clearance to fit Thompson's ass on a shoulder at full stand with enough air room over that for King and Stark to wave their hands about in without coming close to touching Thompson's ass.
EDIT: I'm not one for making an ass of myself without doing enough research into the ass mechanics of the situation! *infracted for bad wordplay*
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Spectre
eternal servant to the Fire/EMS gods
- Location
- NY
then Thompson gets his head smacked into the wall/ equipment because there isn't enough side to side room to do a firemans carry...THIS is a Fireman Carry. The sub's control room is wide enough to effect such a carry or at least a one-shouldered version which takes up less lateral room.
Thompson's front-to-back depth, i.e. belly-to-back height in such a position will be about the height of a male head, (which is about 25cm for skull height, plus a bit for the neck, but this number is irrelevant).
Let's say Skipjack has a 5cm shorter head+neck than Thompson's belly depth due to not being good at these carries, and female heads on average being more compact.
That gives Thompson's ass a maximum of... about 5cm taller than Skipjack standing up, if his ass is draped over her shoulder.
Now since Skipjack is small compared to a submariner (i.e. 10cm shorter than a submariner who need a working headspace of at absolute least 5-10cm), she DEFINITELY has more than enough head clearance to fit Thompson's ass on a shoulder at full stand with enough air room over that for King and Stark to wave their hands about in without coming close to touching Thompson's ass.
EDIT: I'm not one for making an ass of myself without doing enough research into the ass mechanics of the situation! *infracted for bad wordplay*
- Location
- North Carolina
Yeah, those boats are cramped as hell. At least it wasn't an S-class those things were absolutely tiny. *shudders at the thought of being in something that would make Skipjack feel spacious*
- Location
- Canada
I seem to remember diagrams of WWII submarines having command rooms that have two chairs and workstations side by side facing forward... well, can't find it but found something ALMOST as good for "yes, there is side room, or you can line Thompson up with the boat's bow/stern axis).
Salmon-class: 1435 tons standard surfaced, Beam 7.957m O/A
Type VII: 769 tons standard surfaced, Beam 6.2m O/A
As you can see above, even a smaller, slimmer Type VII has enough lateral room in the command room to fireman carry a man sideways (or failing that do it front to back, there's definitely some stretch of corridor in the hull long enough.
EDIT: And if all else fails, sit down with knees curled up to chest and do a cramped bridal carry.
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Sir_Gaea
More Stories Please
- Location
- The Region
@Guardian54, for the love of your deity of choice, can you drop it? @Skywalker_T-65, the author and the one in charge, has weighed in and told us what happened.
So
Drop
It.
Please.
So
Drop
It.
Please.
- Location
- Canada
No problem, just pointing out "hey, there is easily enough room for a lift! You just had to be a bit more creative... and thought a punch was funnier, oh well. Still, there was the room!"
CV12Hornet
Riter.
- Location
- Tacoma, Washington
This isn't dropping the subject. Drop the subject. Now.
USS Bowfin found a cardboard box. From within a voice called out to her. Squeezing herself, a sense of peace flowed out of her heart when she settled. "So this is what fulfillment feels like."
Subs are like big boss. They are quiet on duty but they still love to talk.
- Location
- Canada
You could have achieved the same ends with one "sentence" out of three (the first one), communicated your point better, and not rile up the other side.
Kiyoshimo would like a word with you...
Danbooru number 1946683
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PAGDTenno
Verified Warmind. Probably on fire.
- Location
- South Carolina
Perhaps, (just perhaps!) they wouldn't be so irritated if this wasn't a consistent pattern of behavior with you. This is not the first time you've adamantly refused to drop the subject, or kept stubbornly holding your positions despite those who know better repeatedly explaining why you were wrong, with detailed evidence to the contrary of your positions.
- Location
- Canada
My apologies to everyone, I should have been more diligent at the start with immediate use of diagrams instead of assumptions (which were inaccurate, but in a way that had reality being EASIER than my assumptions)
I was going to let it go, then you decided to be condescending with things which your side has failed to present.
Aristotelian ideas of the 15th to 19th centuries (i.e. up to Germ Theory) would like a word with you on how well "those who know better" often manage to describe reality.
And "detailed"? I've posted numbers and images. Those are details. I have yet to see a floor plan diagram or a cut-away diagram that...
...Hold on a second. *rummages in Favorites list* AHA, DETAILED SCHEMATICS! (not the right class but immediate and similar successor class, good enough)
Definitely Insightful there.
Me: "Yeah okay I get it, you could say it without being an asshole." *considers searching for said detailed diagrams, decides not to*
*gets poked*
Me: "Time for Schematics."
I was going to let it go, then you decided to be condescending with things which your side has failed to present.
Aristotelian ideas of the 15th to 19th centuries (i.e. up to Germ Theory) would like a word with you on how well "those who know better" often manage to describe reality.
And "detailed"? I've posted numbers and images. Those are details. I have yet to see a floor plan diagram or a cut-away diagram that...
...Hold on a second. *rummages in Favorites list* AHA, DETAILED SCHEMATICS! (not the right class but immediate and similar successor class, good enough)
https://maritime.org/doc/plans/ss190.pdf
Yes, it's Sargo-class, but Wikipedia says "similar to the previous Salmon-class" (Skipjack is Salmon-class) though it's slightly beamier (from 7.96 to 8.18 meters) and draftier (from 4.78 to 5.08 meters).
GO TO THE LAST PAGE FOR SIDE CROSS-SECTION!
I can't apply a ruler (1/8 inch = 1 foot is useless on a screen sans scale bar), but 21-inch (533mm) torpedoes are visible both forward and aft. Which means you can measure in increments of such (I zoomed in and it was exactly from the peak of a tooth on a comb I have nearby to the 2nd tooth over). I measure 4.5 such increments from floor to ceiling of the upper deck (i.e. 9 teeth on said comb).
I realize that flooring/ceiling fittings should occupy some space of the 7 foot 10 inch height, but even at 4 times a torpedo's diameter it's a 7-foot deck from floor to ceiling on a Sargo. A Salmon is unlikely to be much more than half a foot shorter in habitation deck as the machinery takes up 2 decks of space, so... something like 6 and a half foot. Wow, my initial estimate of 6 foot decks was an UNDER-estimate... so yeah, enough room to "hover" at least (or "hey, I'm tucking my legs in and off the ground, you can feel around for wires or invisible props if you like!" which, ah, would probably require Skip cross her arms and hold them out as a seat) unless Thompson is particularly tall.
NOW SCROLL UP TO SECOND LAST PAGE!
In the crew's mess, there is enough room for crew members to pass between the tables and benches as diagrammed, particularly if they're the same lengths as the portside lockers on the second last page. 4 tables and 8 benches makes for two forward and two aft of the passageway, as per the last page sketching the tables and benches in place. Now those benches are probably far enough apart to fit someone in between, walking forward or aftward, when unoccupied, in which case Skip can crouch in such a gap.
But if they aren't? I suspect the tables can be laid on safely (I don't see a medbay i.e. operating surface anywhere else unless you suggest using the galley counter), and Skip can scoop people up, possibly while seated at the table if she needs leverage.
And if all else fails, the torpedo room has a higher ceiling than elsewhere, and has a (for submarine standards) wide open area between the fins of the stored torpedoes.
CONCLUSION: WWII submarines have more room for shenanigans than most people would think from their abysmal working conditions
Yes, it's Sargo-class, but Wikipedia says "similar to the previous Salmon-class" (Skipjack is Salmon-class) though it's slightly beamier (from 7.96 to 8.18 meters) and draftier (from 4.78 to 5.08 meters).
GO TO THE LAST PAGE FOR SIDE CROSS-SECTION!
I can't apply a ruler (1/8 inch = 1 foot is useless on a screen sans scale bar), but 21-inch (533mm) torpedoes are visible both forward and aft. Which means you can measure in increments of such (I zoomed in and it was exactly from the peak of a tooth on a comb I have nearby to the 2nd tooth over). I measure 4.5 such increments from floor to ceiling of the upper deck (i.e. 9 teeth on said comb).
I realize that flooring/ceiling fittings should occupy some space of the 7 foot 10 inch height, but even at 4 times a torpedo's diameter it's a 7-foot deck from floor to ceiling on a Sargo. A Salmon is unlikely to be much more than half a foot shorter in habitation deck as the machinery takes up 2 decks of space, so... something like 6 and a half foot. Wow, my initial estimate of 6 foot decks was an UNDER-estimate... so yeah, enough room to "hover" at least (or "hey, I'm tucking my legs in and off the ground, you can feel around for wires or invisible props if you like!" which, ah, would probably require Skip cross her arms and hold them out as a seat) unless Thompson is particularly tall.
NOW SCROLL UP TO SECOND LAST PAGE!
In the crew's mess, there is enough room for crew members to pass between the tables and benches as diagrammed, particularly if they're the same lengths as the portside lockers on the second last page. 4 tables and 8 benches makes for two forward and two aft of the passageway, as per the last page sketching the tables and benches in place. Now those benches are probably far enough apart to fit someone in between, walking forward or aftward, when unoccupied, in which case Skip can crouch in such a gap.
But if they aren't? I suspect the tables can be laid on safely (I don't see a medbay i.e. operating surface anywhere else unless you suggest using the galley counter), and Skip can scoop people up, possibly while seated at the table if she needs leverage.
And if all else fails, the torpedo room has a higher ceiling than elsewhere, and has a (for submarine standards) wide open area between the fins of the stored torpedoes.
CONCLUSION: WWII submarines have more room for shenanigans than most people would think from their abysmal working conditions
Definitely Insightful there.
Me: "Yeah okay I get it, you could say it without being an asshole." *considers searching for said detailed diagrams, decides not to*
*gets poked*
Me: "Time for Schematics."
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Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Okay, now I'm losing patience:
Picture isn't working for me.
- Location
- Canada
I linked from pixiv. It's also Danbooru number 1946683.
EDIT: Thanks Dirtnap for the info, Safebooru apparently leads to some other host that, when you open image in new tab, does not violate the two-click rule, so...
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Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
you can't hotlink from pixiv. Re-upload to a site like imgur then link it.
Information: HELLO THERE FELLOW [S
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
hello there fellow {s}kids{/s} squids
The OP has made their ruling on what happened. And instructed the topic be dropped.
Heed This.
Heed This.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While true, this is pretty well addressed in two ways:
1) Shipgirl bullshit. Shipgirls can see what their planes see in real time. Meaning, she knows exactly how an attack is progressing, or what her scout planes are seeing, etc. It also means that shipgirls can communicate with each other far more easily than ships could IRL.
2) Implementing improved tactics/doctrine right from the start, before the US even enters the war. Things like having more fighters and fewer torpedo bombers, having fighters provide only close cover to the bombers they're protecting, and having the fighters utilize the Thach Weave right over the bombers they're protecting, having Dauntlesses utilize the Thach Weave after they've dropped their bombs to defend themselves against fighter attack, having the FDO practice managing lots of different planes against lots of other planes coming in from various vectors and altitudes, having carriers operate very close to each other (so that their CAPs can be shared and can cover each other), etc.
The Japanese, though, will have a harder time with this. They aren't aware of shipgirls, and even if/when they become aware, they'll already be at war and in the midst of juggling around their fleet between campaigns all over the Pacific, meaning that there will be far too little time to study the phenomenon, come to terms with it, come up with a doctrine for it, and spread that doctrine to everyone effectively. On top of that, they're overconfident and many of their problems stem from long-standing culture and institutional aspects. They won't endeavor to radically rethink their way of waging war and fighting enemy navies until they're dealt a catastrophic defeat, by which point it will be largely too late to matter.
I mean, even after Midway, the IJN continued to make some of the same major mistakes, like having ships too far away from each other to support each other, failing to recognize decisive battles when they occur and believing they can force decisive battles when and where their enemies don't want to fight them, for instance. Even after suffering major losses in terms of air crews at Coral Sea and Midway, they didn't radically restructure how they built, maintained, and replenished their pilots/air crews, and even when they did, they failed to make the truly important changes: cycling at least some of their veteran pilots back to train their newer pilots, rather than keeping all of their veteran pilots on the front lines until they died, and greatly expanding the number of pilots being trained. Even as late as 1945, Japan would send its newest cadre of carrier-qualified pilots to be transferred to island garrisons to fight from airfields, leaving their newest fleet carriers empty and useless for anything except ferrying planes.
- Location
- Mountains of Appalachia
I'm not sure that Sara can see what her pilots do. Notice this, emphasis mine:
What I'm seeing is that Sara gets radio communication with her pilots and can act as a fighter director/communications hub. But notice that Thatch had to call Sara and she was asking him for info that she could see for herself if she could 'see through her pilots' eyes' (Namely "Any Japanese Planes left? Which way did they go?"). I think that she can probably sense rough distance and bearing of her aircraft at most and might be able to tell if a plane is lost (which would give a rough area where enemies are if it gets shot down). I'm pretty sure Sara can 'perceive' what her radar sees for surface search/air search as well.
Absolutely, although I suspect that the more SBD/F4F less TBD loadout will have to wait for a few months, since I am not sure that Pearl has the spare aircraft to do that just yet, especially immediately after the attack. Thompson and Richardson would have to fight a battle with the folks in DC to get them to adjust that pre-war. Now, in a few months, then yes there should be enough planes available to go to the mid-war carrier airwing composition (basically before the F6F/F4U and other second generation carrier planes were introduced) while the torpedo issue is worked on. But this early on, I don't think that he has the spare aircraft to do that just yet.
Probably the biggest things are purging the avgas lines and dealing with paint and other flammables for DamCon (plus encouraging captains to intensively train their DC crews with the assistance of the girl who can tell the crew exactly what is wrong) and the Thatch weave/FDO fighter tactics. Unfortunately, both will be put to the test at Second Wake.
The Devestator is going to be quickly going on it's way out as soon as heavy combat begins, only a little over a hundred were built in the first place. Midway involved something like about a third of all Devestators built.
If there aren't enough SBD's to go around they can probably scrounge up some Vindicators instead.
- Location
- In the depts of despair.
Also regarding communications I bet Thompson did a lot of the background work already. He is from the future, so most of the special nomeclature and protocols formulated after decades of hard practical lessons will be drilled into the pilots and comm officers to prevent lethal misunderstandings, improve coordination and avoid gaps in information between the ships and the air groups. Also he must have tweaked the chain of command to ensure the best possible use of the CAG and introducing other positions such as the Deputy CAG and a permanent staff (a command structure of the 80's).