Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

[PAGDTenno]

have just shown photographic and mathematical evidence that F4Fs were capable of withstanding 2 gravities forward acceleration by aircraft catapult.

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Tell you what. Try to pull a car out of a ditch by the bumper instead of by the tow hook, and tell me how well that works.

For the sake of the metaphor, the Wildcat's catapult attachment points are the tow hook, and the handholds are the bumper.

 

[Guardian54]

Tell you what. Try to pull a car out of a ditch by the bumper instead of by the tow hook, and tell me how well that works.

For the sake of the metaphor, the Wildcat's catapult attachment points are the tow hook, and the handholds are the bumper.

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Because Sara can't hold onto an apparatus helping hold the rear wheel up (to reduce upward angle of plane) and the catapult hook at the same time with one hand each???

 

[CV12Hornet]

Because Sara can't hold onto an apparatus helping hold the rear wheel up (to reduce upward angle of plane) and the catapult hook at the same time with one hand each???

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The Wildcat is over 28 feet long and the catapult bridle is near the front of the wing. Unless Sara's avatar is suddenly thirty feet tall or something, no, she can't.

 

[Burning Baron]

Cold launch?

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Since AlphaDelta summed everything else up for me, I'll just tell you the hazards of the steam catapult.

There are launches, which you see in recruitment videos for every nation with carriers.

Then there are what you don't see.
Cold Shots and Hot Runs.

Cold Shots are when the cat hasn't built up enough pressure. Meaning it just flings the plane off the deck really quickly, and isn't recoverable.

Hot Shots ( what I call them) are when the cat is over pressurized, likely for a different aircraft model than what's launching. The high pressure has, with frightening regularity, simply ripped the undercarriage off.

 

[Guardian54]

The Wildcat is over 28 feet long and the catapult bridle is near the front of the wing. Unless Sara's avatar is suddenly thirty feet tall or something, no, she can't.

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*Holds up 25-foot metal frame with a cup slapped on the end for the rear wheel and a handhold for Sara near the front, basically a seaplane launch catapult or other similar device, perhaps a motor launch crane, modified to be able to help hold the ass of a Wildcat up, before being pulled de facto back and away as Sara lets go after the final heave.*

Think of Wasp's deck-edge elevator. It's said on a certain AH.com work (regarding Canada building small carriers as aircraft ferries and escorts) to be basically a T-frame that folds out for the tail wheel to be wheeled out onto.

Cold Shots are when the cat hasn't built up enough pressure. Meaning it just flings the plane off the deck really quickly, and isn't recoverable.

Hot Shots ( what I call them) are when the cat is over pressurized, likely for a different aircraft model than what's launching. The high pressure has, with frightening regularity, simply ripped the undercarriage off.

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Cold shot: Not fast enough to get plane off? WWII planes have relatively low take-off speeds and I showed we already can exceed that easily. No problem, comrade!

Hot shot: Sara doesn't need to worry about too much acceleration as long as she counts her movement speed carefully with a few markers (read: splashes of paint on either side of her "track" to help her. I said she can launch a F4F in 1 second and with 20m of running done counting her slowing back down in theory. In practice even 2 seconds and 40 meters would still be fine (and absurdly fast in launch rate).

And if the plane develops engine trouble during the launch run (perhaps extend this to 4 seconds to give them time to react to War Emergency Power suddenly stopping working) she can just let go of the tail wheel support, grab onto the landing hook, and bring it to a nice, neat stop before setting it down on the deck.

That is, of course, unless leverage actually matters, which I assumed could be suspended for a shipgirl aboard herself. If leverage actually matters, well this isn't going to work.

 

[Burning Baron]

@Guardian54

Those are for STEAM CATAPULT LAUNCHES!

Which Sara doesn't have!

 

[Guardian54]

@Guardian54

Those are for STEAM CATAPULT LAUNCHES!

Which Sara doesn't have!

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I meant the equivalent of a cold shot with a shipgirl-hand-launch, i.e. not enough speed and the equivalent of hot shot i.e. too much force. I have demonstrated that neither need apply, thus demonstrating theoretical feasibility.

That being said, I do know this scheme is utter madness and unless Thompson's witnessed shipgirls going rabid javelin mode it's not happening.

 

[CV12Hornet]

I meant the equivalent of a cold shot with a shipgirl-hand-launch, i.e. not enough speed and the equivalent of hot shot i.e. too much force. I have demonstrated that neither need apply, thus demonstrating theoretical feasibility.

That being said, I do know this scheme is utter madness and unless Thompson's witnessed shipgirls going rabid javelin mode it's not happening.

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Then why are you still arguing for it?!

If you don't think it's going to be used here, take it somewhere else! Please!

 

[Old Iron]

Chapter 48

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Well now. This was quite the ride. I do believe Hiryuu is in for a very, very painful lesson. Both physically and emotionally. Kaga's viewpoint was a good eye opener to help show the downsides of such exuberance.

Though poor Sara. She's taken some bad hits now and if that plane impacts... I think we're going to be seeing some very big waves down the line. There's a lot that removing Thompson from the equation (even if only temporarily) would impact.

Still, damn worth the wait sirrah!

This time, it was Utah who leaned forward and captured her Captain's lips. It was a chaste kiss.

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*inner shipper is going bannanas*
Yes! Yes! Woohoo!

While I really loved the heart-to heart, my shipping nature is kinda overriding all rational thought and insight at the moment.

As if to demonstrate this, Ari stuck said leg out. Tommy valiantly fought to not look down, his honor warring with his Marine nature.

The Marine side won.

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Tommy, that was a losing battle from the get-go. Though you had damn well treat that battleship girl right!

Yeah, not feeling too good and work has been many, many failed SAN checks. So these cutes are a godsend.

 

[Admiral_Corgi]

Oh I hope Sara manages to protect her admiral!

Though if any shell fragments ricochet around and graze Thompson and leave a scar, I can't help but wonder how such a injury (and resulting scar) would affect our time-traveling admirals mentality. Probably not much but it'd likely be a constant reminder everytime he looked in the mirror.

The suspense of what happened is killing me.

And Utah, poor Utah, that gal needs All the love and support she can get. I'm certain Jackson will be there for her in this trying time.

Still though Excellent main update and sidestory update!

I'll wager that Utah and Jackson will get married just before the War's end, if they make it to the end. I can't be the only one who sees it right? I bet they'll be the first to do that.

 

[SisterJeanne]

Then why are you still arguing for it?!

If you don't think it's going to be used here, take it somewhere else! Please!

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Second that.

So, to change the subject, we know that Sara (and presumably Little E) have already launched their strike aircraft rather than keeping them on board to reprise Midway as the Kido Butai. Where, exactly, are those planes right now?

In other words, have their scouts spotted Kaga and Hiryuu yet and is there a counterattack about to land on them?

 

[Guardian54]

Then why are you still arguing for it?!

If you don't think it's going to be used here, take it somewhere else! Please!

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FOR SCIENCE!

"Science isn't about why, it's about WHY NOT. Now shut up and start strapping Saturn V rockets to that Iowa-Class Battleship."
Source: Belated Battleships: Cute battleships doing Cute battlethings. (Kancolle) | Page 1046

This is the same sort of thing as my mathematical proof of how one might use fairies in a dungeon: I Woke Up As a Dungeon, Now What? [Dungeon/Worm] | Page 99

Or "XKCD What-If".

I'll wager that Utah and Jackson will get married just before the War's end, if they make it to the end. I can't be the only one who sees it right? I bet they'll be the first to do that.

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Don't. Saying that is tantamount to a guy talking about his grandkids and how he's two days from retirement in a disaster/war film.

We should be very, very quiet on that topic.

So, to change the subject, we know that Sara (and presumably Little E) have already launched their strike aircraft rather than keeping them on board to reprise Midway as the Kido Butai. Where, exactly, are those planes right now?

In other words, have their scouts spotted Kaga and Hiryuu yet and is there a counterattack about to land on them?

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Almost certainly, it's not that hard to backtrack a vector from Wake, particularly when the shipgirls are coordinating.

 

[Shaithan]

@Guardian54, take some good advice. When people politely tell you that you're an annoying little shit that doesn't know what they're talking about, it's good form to shut up. You're doubling down. Kindly desist.

 

[Phht]

I think a more important thing in the damage's effects on flight operations is... Sara's air group (and presumably E's as well) should be outbound for the enemy carriers. So what damage she has now doesn't really matter except for cycling CAP, and her airborne CAP can be rerouted to E for rearming/refueling at the moment. The real question is whether Sara can get the fire dealt with and the hole patched for normal flight operations before her boys get back from the strike in, say, 1-6 hours. And barring an elevator jammed in anything other than fully upright, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

The only other major issue is whether they can patch up her stack enough to deal with the exhaust flow issue preventing her from making full use of her engines. I'd probably consider that a bigger issue than a hole in the deck. A slow carrier is a dead carrier.

 

[PAGDTenno]

I think a more important thing in the damage's effects on flight operations is... Sara's air group (and presumably E's as well) should be outbound for the enemy carriers. So what damage she has now doesn't really matter except for cycling CAP, and her airborne CAP can be rerouted to E for rearming/refueling at the moment. The real question is whether Sara can get the fire dealt with and the hole patched for normal flight operations before her boys get back from the strike in, say, 1-6 hours. And barring an elevator jammed in anything other than fully upright, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

The only other major issue is whether they can patch up her stack enough to deal with the exhaust flow issue preventing her from making full use of her engines. I'd probably consider that a bigger issue than a hole in the deck. A slow carrier is a dead carrier.

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Meh. If she can make at least twenty or twenty-five knots, she can make herself really hard to find, and that really doesn't take much power. Like, she could do that kind of speed at half power.

 

[Guardian54]

Meh. If she can make at least twenty or twenty-five knots, she can make herself really hard to find, and that really doesn't take much power. Like, she could do that kind of speed at half power.

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The Standards made 20 knots at less than a sixth Sara's full power. And her battlecruiser lineage speaks pretty clearly on the speed-power curve...

 

[PAGDTenno]

Above ~20kt, you start needing exponentially more power for every additional knot. It's why the Iowas only get five knots on the SoDaks despite nine thousand tons of extra speed.

 

[Darth Thanatos]

despite nine thousand tons of extra speed.

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Since when speed is measured in tons?

 

[landcollector]

Since when speed is measured in tons?

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He is referring to the larger/heavier machinery (boilers, turbines etc ), which generates more horsepower.

 

[Darth Thanatos]

He is referring to the larger/heavier machinery (boilers, turbines etc ), which generates more horsepower.

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In which case he should have said "extra power", not "extra speed".

Besides, the hull shape also affects greatly speed. If you add a torpedo bulge, it will create additional drag, which will require moar powah to keep the same speed.

 

[PAGDTenno]

Since when speed is measured in tons?

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Since that's what the tonnage budget was spent on. The extended bow, greatly improving hydrodynamics is weight that can't be spent on more guns, armor, or both. So is the more powerful propulsion plant.

 

[Haiku]

The alternative is the far more terrifying option of "we have only 100m left of edge of flight deck that's not burnt and blasted to hell yet? Machinery spaces are still working, so that's no problem for launching aircraft. Here, just let me get a good hold on your arrestor hook anchoring frame and your torpedo, and here we go!"

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Sounds like a "Hold My Beer" Moment.

The wings have to generate enough lift to actually get the frame in the air.

This is achieved by gaining lateral thrust across a flat surface.

In fact, here's the NASA explanation as to how lift actually works.

Just going fast won't work. Which is why aircraft fall out of the sky if a wing is removed.

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Moving through air fast enough with a lifting airfoil/body to overcome the pull of gravity is EXACTLY how takeoff works.

Why do you think carriers turn into the wind and go to full speed to launch planes? It reduces the takeoff speed relative to the deck i.e. catapult force or takeoff length before you get enough airspeed to get the lift you need.

Airspeed. Not ground speed.

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Whats the fastest way to start a fight between to Engineers?

Ask how lift works.

FOR SCIENCE!

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Ah, yes. How could we forget?

 

[Guardian54]

Since that's what the tonnage budget was spent on. The extended bow, greatly improving hydrodynamics is weight that can't be spent on more guns, armor, or both. So is the more powerful propulsion plant.

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On the other hand you can still shove some crew quarters, stores, etc. in there so it's not totally "ballistic cap" level stuff a la APCBC shells.

Whats the fastest way to start a fight between to Engineers?

Ask how lift works.

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Naw, it's...
What is Love Lowe* Lift?

Spoiler: *What is Lowe?

Spoiler: According to Wikipedia there's a Lift made by the Coca-Cola company...

 

[kokuenDG]

On the other hand you can still shove some crew quarters, stores, etc. in there so it's not totally "ballistic cap" level stuff a la APCBC shells.



Naw, it's...
What is Love Lowe* Lift?

Spoiler: *What is Lowe?

Spoiler: According to Wikipedia there's a Lift made by the Coca-Cola company...

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cool. i have an issue with this though. This is a derail, plain and simple Guardian. It has never not been a derail, and your consistent attempts to push this topic has gotten very disruptive.

No one should have to keep trying to get you to drop the topic Guardian. Hell, I shouldn't have to come in here and do this.

But such is life I suppose. So yeah, take 25 and a 3 day timeout. And in the future, I would strongly urge you to remember to stay on topic, regardless of what thread you participate in.

 

[maes]

Sounds like a "Hold My Beer" Moment.

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Something tells me neither Thompson or Halsey want to find out what happens if ship-spirits are exposed to alcohol, or if they can even get drunk in the first place.

Drunken shipgirl shenanigans are/were/will be already bad enough when they're not 'full hulls'.