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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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First:

Thompson and Schreiber :V

Second: The Gestapo and SS are famously bad at their jobs. They keep stepping on each other's toes and relied a lot on German (and collaborator) willingness to sell out their neighbors, friends and family.

Also this

On top of that, the Abwehr is pretty compromised from an 'anti-Nazi' perspective. From Canaris and Oster on down. So you've got them running interference as well. And the messages to the Brits are sent-via Bisko, so no one knows they're being sent. Schreiber is pretty uniquely in a position to make himself trusted while undermining things.

Case in point, look at the Valkyrie Plotters. While they were dicks themselves, it says something that Stauffenberg was trusted enough to sneak a bomb next to Hitler at that stage of the war.

Third: All of the girls have differing personalities. Sara, at the start, was much quieter and not as trusting. Ari is obvious, E is obvious. Yorktown is a tsundere.

Bisko had to develop a personality period.

As for Japan...look at Zui. She's all naive and excited for the attack, almost genki about it. Instead of being a somewhat bitter tsundere. Nagato's personality may not be that different, to the point of using similar lines. But.

As I said at the time, the context for those lines is completely different. Her pride is much more toxic. She may be mostly the same, but in all the wrong ways.

This will come up more as we go along.
 
Does he have to worry about his junior officers assinating him if he doesn't live up to their expectations? Were their native Japanese people going against Imperial Japan like in Germany?

Edit: Sendai'd by Sky.
 
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Arawn_Emrys said:
And it's not hard for an admiral to be undermining the Nazis to the point of contacting British intelligence under the Gestapo's noses? While still being trusted enough to meet with Hitler personally?
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You seem to underestimate just how different a JSDF admiral is to an Imperial Japanese Navy Admiral. It is certainly possible for a JSDF admiral to pretend to be an Imperial Admiral. But it is unlikely that he will be able to convince the ships of the Imperial Navy to actually try and overthrow the Emperor. Japanese soldiers were indoctrinated to believe in the necessity of killing the enemy, the glory of dying for the emperor, and the ignominy of surrender. Most Japanese would rather die than surrender and kill anyone seeming to be a defeatist.

The ships of the Kriegsmarine are more pro-German than Nazi, especially the surface ships who were being built before Hitler's rise to power. Not to mention the Kriegsmarine has always been less Nazi than other branches of the German military. I would imagine that the more recent ships such as the U Boats would be more pro-Nazis.

This is different from the shipgirls of the Imperial Japanese Navy who grew up in an atmosphere of militant hyper-nationalism. They will certainly be more fanatical than their German counterparts and be more unwilling to accept the reality of Japan's inevitable defeat.
 
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newwriter said:
You seem to underestimate just how different a JSDF admiral is to an Imperial Japanese Navy Admiral. It is certainly possible for a JSDF admiral to pretend to be an Imperial Admiral. But it is unlikely that he will be able to convince the ships of the Imperial Navy to actually try and overthrow the Emperor.
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Why not using the classic "it's the evil and corrupt councillors who had steered own glorious nation to ruin"? It would probably won't work, though.
 
Would schadenfreude extend to people who deserve it getting their asses handed to them? Because I am positively giddy at the prospect of seeing hyper-nationalistic shipgirls get demolished and spend their last moments as ships wallowing in shame and despair.

...I may have a bit of a bias against arrogant idiots.
 
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Savato93 said:
Would schadenfreude extend to people who deserve it getting their asses handed to them? Because I am positively giddy at the prospect of seeing hyper-nationalistic shipgirls get demolished and spend their last moments as ships wallowing in shame and despair.

...I may have a bit of a bias against arrogant idiots.
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You're forgetting that these are essentially slave-conscripts. They don't have a choice here. Indroctinated since "birth", unable to refuse orders even if they wanted to unless they can somehow manage to manifest. And we know that they have it in them to become good people because their future selves were. Be glad that they are sunk and not doing any more harm, but don't take pleasure from their suffering.
 
newwriter said:
You seem to underestimate just how different a JSDF admiral is to an Imperial Japanese Navy Admiral. It is certainly possible for a JSDF admiral to pretend to be an Imperial Admiral. But it is unlikely that he will be able to convince the ships of the Imperial Navy to actually try and overthrow the Emperor. Japanese soldiers were indoctrinated to believe in the necessity of killing the enemy, the glory of dying for the emperor, and the ignominy of surrender. Most Japanese would rather die than surrender and kill anyone seeming to be a defeatist.
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True it would be nearly impossible to convince anyone to overthrow the emperor but what if that's not what they tried to do. The first thing i would do would be to try to summon and then convince Mikasa that japan was on the path to destruction and then use her prestige and maybe some future knowledge to sway officers who had knowledge of the true strength of the united states that the militarists were leading the empire to ruin. Put all the blame on the coming ruin on Tojo and his gang and light a fire under the resentment between the army and the navy to my advantage. From there, if i felt i could i would launch a coup to "restore the emperor to power"and from there try to negotiate a deal with the Allies.
 
I will admit that I may be a bit biased. I'm a fan of both Belated Battleships and Harry and the Shipgirls, so I'm rather used to seeing the IJN Kanmusu as their better selves. I even called it pretty early on in the SB side of Harry's thread that Aso was more like a battered wife than a true believer in the hyper nationalist crap she spewed, and I was proven right months later when she finally broke after being shown proof of what Unit 731 had been up to.
 
asqwerty3345 said:
True it would be nearly impossible to convince anyone to overthrow the emperor but what if that's not what they tried to do. The first thing i would do would be to try to summon and then convince Mikasa that japan was on the path to destruction and then use her prestige and maybe some future knowledge to sway officers who had knowledge of the true strength of the united states that the militarists were leading the empire to ruin. Put all the blame on the coming ruin on Tojo and his gang and light a fire under the resentment between the army and the navy to my advantage. From there, if i felt i could i would launch a coup to "restore the emperor to power"and from there try to negotiate a deal with the Allies.
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Actually Tojo was intended to be the 'peace' PM when he was appointed.

What caused the war was a combination of cultural conformity that severely hampered those leaders who thought that the war was a terrible idea from standing firmly in opposition, both the Army and Navy having effective veto power over government formation thanks to the rule that their ministers had to be a serving flag officer, and an extreme unwillingness to back down to avoid losing 'face'. it is also up for debate as to how much Hirohito himself was pushing matters 1931-41. it is not nearly as simple as removing the cabinet and forming a new one, otherwise Japan would not have gone to war like it did.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
You're forgetting that these are essentially slave-conscripts. They don't have a choice here. Indroctinated since "birth", unable to refuse orders even if they wanted to unless they can somehow manage to manifest. And we know that they have it in them to become good people because their future selves were. Be glad that they are sunk and not doing any more harm, but don't take pleasure from their suffering.
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Fair enough.

Now, my two cents on the situation; were there therapists in the forties? Because Utah needs help. She may be non-human with a completely different psychology from normal people, but that shouldn't dissuade at least an attempt to provide her with therapy.


Arawn_Emrys said:
I will admit that I may be a bit biased. I'm a fan of both Belated Battleships and Harry and the Shipgirls, so I'm rather used to seeing the IJN Kanmusu as their better selves. I even called it pretty early on in the SB side of Harry's thread that Aso was more like a battered wife than a true believer in the hyper nationalist crap she spewed, and I was proven right months later when she finally broke after being shown proof of what Unit 731 had been up to.
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She kidnapped YamaPrise's baby and put her in life-threatening danger smuggling her across the Abyssal-infested Pacific to the USA. No change of heart will EVER erase that crime.
 
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Savato93 said:
Now, my two cents on the situation; were there therapists in the forties? Because Utah needs help. She may be non-human with a completely different psychology from normal people, but that shouldn't dissuade at least an attempt to provide her with therapy.
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President Kennedy's older sister was a rebellious girl, and her father forcibly got a lobotomy for her. This was in this era.
"Therapist" is spelled the way it is because that's basically what they were early on.

So unless you want every therapist in the United States to end up with lobotomies measured in capital ship calibres, I recommend keeping Utah far, FAR away from any therapists.

This was also not far from the era where women were thought to be prone to "hysteria" from having weaker blood due to menstruation and having a uterus...

...I wonder how quickly they will change their tune with large enough guns shoved up their rears? And of course, those who want to be martyrs... this is the era of Social Darwinism being thought of as scientific by many, so "deciding to do something that gets you 100% killed" should be propagandized as "too stupid to live and doing everyone a favor by dying".
 
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Guardian54 said:
President Kennedy's older sister was a rebellious girl, and her father forcibly got a lobotomy for her. This was in this era.
"Therapist" is spelled the way it was because that's basically what they were early on.

So unless you want every therapist in the United States to end up with lobotomies measured in capital ship calibres, I recommend keeping Utah far, FAR away from any therapists.

This was also not far from the era where women were thought to be prone to "hysteria" from having weaker blood due to menstruation and having a uterus...

...I wonder how quickly they will change their tune with large enough guns shoved up their rears? And of course, those who want to be martyrs... this is the era of Social Darwinism being thought of as scientific by many, so "deciding to do something that gets you 100% killed" should be propagandized as "too stupid to live and doing everyone a favor by dying".
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Oh, for crying out loud. Any therapist cleared to work with shipgirls will have the intelligence to assume they are not human women, and the Navy is going to be very willing to fire therapists until they find one open-minded enough to help instead of harming. Out of self-preservation, if nothing else.
 
PAGDTenno said:
Oh, for crying out loud. Any therapist cleared to work with shipgirls will have the intelligence to assume they are not human women, and the Navy is going to be very willing to fire therapists until they find one open-minded enough to help instead of harming. Out of self-preservation, if nothing else.
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Notice my ending on the "this is the most literal Social Darwinism most of these therapists have ever undergone" note, which is more optimistic than the rest.

However, I should remind you that self-preservation is not too relevant in discussions that relate to ideology, bigotry (i.e. misogyny) or religion, and shipgirls kind of throw a wrench in all three for much of the world...

Or have you forgotten how many jokes I came up with earlier in the thread over assaulting non-white-looking shipgirls?
 
PAGDTenno said:
Oh, for crying out loud. Any therapist cleared to work with shipgirls will have the intelligence to assume they are not human women, and the Navy is going to be very willing to fire therapists until they find one open-minded enough to help instead of harming. Out of self-preservation, if nothing else.
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Maybe I have an extreme bias against all psychology in the era before the code of ethics was codified in 1953, but I don't think a therapist would help in any degree, especially the ones in vogue at the time that think lobotomies are helping.

Never underestimate the damage a well intentioned idiot can do.
 
ex143 said:
Maybe I have an extreme bias against all psychology in the era before the code of ethics was codified in 1953, but I don't think a therapist would help in any degree, especially the ones in vogue at the time that think lobotomies are helping.

Never underestimate the damage a well intentioned idiot can do.
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Thompson would shut such a thing down immediately.

RDJ said:
Rules? What's it about? And what's the full name?
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Things Involving Shipgirls That Are No Longer Allowed.

Rules is just more convenient. It's on ffn, and is by @CV12Hornet
 
I meant self-preservation on part of the Navy. Somehow, having your most potent weapons platforms poisonously angry at you seems like a bad idea.
 
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