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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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Arawn_Emrys said:
Harry and the Shipgirls played the conflict between shipgirl and crew very much NOT for laughs with Hachi/I-8 expressing outright hatred for her old crew because of the war crimes they committed on board her.
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True, but I don't remember ever hearing about any of Fuso's crew being utter dickwads the way Hachi's wartime captain was.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
Harry and the Shipgirls played the conflict between shipgirl and crew very much NOT for laughs with Hachi/I-8 expressing outright hatred for her old crew because of the war crimes they committed on board her.
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What we do have happening here is the Kriegsmarines Ship-girls are 'helping' the SS officers aboard their hulls 'exercise' by tossing them overboard.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
Not too likely. They would have more exposure to stories about stuff like that than the Americans. Disrespecting even minor kami is a great way to get yourself and your entire family fucked up really bad.
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Yeah, well...

But when you get the rep of being a fated ship filled with misfortune, coupled with the fact that Fleet command relegated them to shameful roles (for proud battleships willing to give their all), it's no surprise that the crew would not hold either Fuso in much esteem, and any show of reverence or respect would be made out of grudging duty, rather than any heartfelt feeling.

What's even more, if you characterize them as their KC canon aspects, either Fuso sister would feel that any show of respect given to them is not earned. Yamashiro would drop the blame on her misfortune, while Fuso would blame herself and her "poorly designed" hull and systems, so neither would complain if the crew half-asses their respects.

One interesting bit of her characterization is that they would not take shit on behalf of either sister, though. Insult Fuso to her face, and she will nod sadly; insult Yamashiro, though, and she will go Big Sister on your ass. And there is a reason I call the other one Yandashiro: disrespect Fuso in her presence and she will go full yandere on you.
 
Darth Thanatos said:
Yeah, well...

But when you get the rep of being a fated ship filled with misfortune, coupled with the fact that Fleet command relegated them to shameful roles (for proud battleships willing to give their all), it's no surprise that the crew would not hold either Fuso in much esteem, and any show of reverence or respect would be made out of grudging duty, rather than any heartfelt feeling.

What's even more, if you characterize them as their KC canon aspects, either Fuso sister would feel that any show of respect given to them is not earned. Yamashiro would drop the blame on her misfortune, while Fuso would blame herself and her "poorly designed" hull and systems, so neither would complain if the crew half-asses their respects.

One interesting bit of her characterization is that they would not take shit on behalf of either sister, though. Insult Fuso to her face, and she will nod sadly; insult Yamashiro, though, and she will go Big Sister on your ass. And there is a reason I call the other one Yandashiro: disrespect Fuso in her presence and she will go full yandere on you.
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Either that or they'd take the ill fortune combined with manifested kami to try and appease her, thinking that they had angered her in some way and she had been punishing them. Which leads to cute confusion.

However, if you want a sad picture, imagine the Akizuki class having to watch while their crews basically starve. If you though they had issues before, imagine how bad their PTSD is when they actually got to interact with those men.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
Either that or they'd take the ill fortune combined with manifested kami to try and appease her, thinking that they had angered her in some way and she had been punishing them. Which leads to cute confusion.
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Well, the Fusos being able to talk with their crew would clearly dispel the notion that the ship kami (humm... better Japanize that fully, "Kamifune" or "funegami", I think, OR leave it in full English, i.e. "ship divinities" or "ship goddesses"; "ship spirits" works too) are angered or displeased with them. One possibility is that both ship and crew bond over the fact the Fleet Command does not give them missions that would allow them to prove their worth and get assigned better missions as result. That could lead to: A) them not giving a shit about missions anymore, which is somewhat "Un-Japanese" but can happen, or B) go in overzealous mode, with a crew and a ship that goes above and beyond regulations to prove their worth, which would be a very Japanese response.

Arawn_Emrys said:
However, if you want a sad picture, imagine the Akizuki class having to watch while their crews basically starve. If you though they had issues before, imagine how bad their PTSD is when they actually got to interact with those men.
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It's possible that the crew does their damnedest best to hide their problems from the shipgirls, if the crew sees that the spirits are clearly distressed over their suffering and unable to do anything about it. Which it still leads to a lot of bad places.
 
CompassJimbo said:
More like a regular psychotic stalker. Yandere requires one condition: to be in love wih the victim. If she goes after you for making Fusou suffer, I severely doubt romantic love will play a role.
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Read Yamashiro's voice lines: she crosses the "sisterly love" boundary and delves deep into Yandere territory. Think Ooi -> Kitakami, but with battleships.

Hell, her marriage line is a rejection because she only loves Fuso!
 
Z000 said:
if they can see her then she can touch them

that mean throwing them overboard for that kind of disrespect

having the ship literally throwing you out is a very bad rep to have
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Darth Thanatos said:
True. But the IJN thought of the Fusos as obsolete, even after their modernization, and used them for punishment assignments. Personnel preferred to be assigned to a destroyer before going to the Fusos, even if they were battleships, which a priori is a more prestigious assignment.

The only remarkable thing they did was to assist with rescue after Mutsu's turret exploded. But all the missions they got assigned were second or third rate, which implied that the brass didn't trust the Fusos to do anything useful in important missions. This had to have an impact on the crew's morale, and on how they would view the Fuso shipgirls if they manifested.

"Hi! I'm the kami of this ship, Fuso!"

"Oh, goodie. You're assigned to room... North-23. Put your things there, and come back to report for duty."

"But that's the latrine! Why do I get that as my room?"

"We thought of assigning you Maintenance room 2, but it's full of important things, like brooms and mops. You'd have no place there."
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Legend then goes on to say that Fuso smiled sweetly at him before grabbing his collar and chucking him out to sea. The officer was said to perform impossible acrobatic feats while squealing like a school girl as he hang in the air for 21.93 seconds before hitting the water like an over-ripe mango. Minutes later he was found alive and floating before Mutsu's shipbody ran him over. It was rumored that the emperor facepalmed when he heard of it.
 
Z000 said:
if they can see her then she can touch them

that mean throwing them overboard for that kind of disrespect

having the ship literally throwing you out is a very bad rep to have
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Is it me, but doesn't this sound like a haiku? Lets see . . .

They see ship can touch
Thrown over for disrespect
This bad rep to have​

. . . eh. Poetry was never my strong point.​
 
It's kinda heartbreaking to think about the same characters I'm familiar with from other KC stuff like BelBatt and Harry and the Shipgirls being fully conscious during WWII, it makes them basically slave soldiers for the Empire/The Nazis since they for the most part lack the ability to act. Child soldiers in the case of the destroyers.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
It's kinda heartbreaking to think about the same characters I'm familiar with from other KC stuff like BelBatt and Harry and the Shipgirls being fully conscious during WWII, it makes them basically slave soldiers for the Empire/The Nazis since they for the most part lack the ability to act. Child soldiers in the case of the destroyers.
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Yeah, stories like this are to some extent or other tragities. At least for the girls.
 
asqwerty3345 said:
That's one thing that always kinda bugged me. Some destroyers, like those of the Asiatic Fleet are 22-23 years old. Wouldn't the age of the ship, even if just a destroyer lead to a more developed and worldly personality, especially if the Asiatic fleet is used as an example.
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You have to remember that they aren't human. The closest thing that they resemble is tsukumogami. They are spirits. Their bodies and minds are shaped by what they are. Humans think "smaller version = younger", so that's how it is.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
You have to remember that they aren't human. The closest thing that they resemble is tsukumogami. They are spirits. Their bodies and minds are shaped by what they are. Humans think "smaller version = younger", so that's how it is.
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But by logic Zuikaku shouldn't be so naive and childish since shes an 844ft, 32000 ton aircraft carrier. While the size of a ship certainly affects their appearance, they are full consciousness and sentient beings so what goes on around them and how long they exist should affect how mature they are. USS Allen, DD-66 by 1942 is 26 years old and is fighting in her second world war.
 
asqwerty3345 said:
But by logic Zuikaku shouldn't be so naive and childish since shes an 844ft, 32000 ton aircraft carrier. While the size of a ship certainly affects their appearance, they are full consciousness and sentient beings so what goes on around them and how long they exist should affect how mature they are. USS Allen, DD-66 by 1942 is 26 years old and is fighting in her second world war.
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I think it has to do with how they are percieved. Destroyers were little things, that gathered around larger ships and were rewarded with ice cream when they did well, hence they are young. Fleet Carriers and Battleships were basically the queens of the ocean and thus are older. Certains ones are exceptions, and repair ships also tend to be older because people don't see Doctors as being young, regardless of size, similarly Tenders are older because they are the mothers taking care of the other ships. Etc...
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
I think it has to do with how they are percieved. Destroyers were little things, that gathered around larger ships and were rewarded with ice cream when they did well, hence they are young. Fleet Carriers and Battleships were basically the queens of the ocean and thus are older. Certains ones are exceptions, and repair ships also tend to be older because people don't see Doctors as being young, regardless of size, similarly Tenders are older because they are the mothers taking care of the other ships. Etc...
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But this disregards the agency of the ship spirits. They are fully sentient beings and they develop traits that they couldn't have if they only gained things from how they are perceived by their crews and those around them. Utah wouldn't have her motherly personality if that was so because she was viewed as nothing more than an old useless target/training ship by pretty much everyone.
 
asqwerty3345 said:
But this disregards the agency of the ship spirits. They are fully sentient beings and they develop traits that they couldn't have if they only gained things from how they are perceived by their crews and those around them. Utah wouldn't have her motherly personality if that was so because she was viewed as nothing more than an old useless target/training ship by pretty much everyone.
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There's both "nature and nurture" I would assume. They have innate traits based on their ship type and its image, but also traits they picked up throughout their careers. As a training ship, Utah was responsible for essentially raising and teaching the other ships. So, regardless of her ship type, she becomes a mother figure. Different ships have different personalities, even within the same class, much less the same type. But the type and class definitely would have an influence too.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
I think it has to do with how they are percieved. Destroyers were little things, that gathered around larger ships and were rewarded with ice cream when they did well, hence they are young. Fleet Carriers and Battleships were basically the queens of the ocean and thus are older. Certains ones are exceptions, and repair ships also tend to be older because people don't see Doctors as being young, regardless of size, similarly Tenders are older because they are the mothers taking care of the other ships. Etc...
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asqwerty3345 said:
But this disregards the agency of the ship spirits. They are fully sentient beings and they develop traits that they couldn't have if they only gained things from how they are perceived by their crews and those around them. Utah wouldn't have her motherly personality if that was so because she was viewed as nothing more than an old useless target/training ship by pretty much everyone.
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Arawn_Emrys said:
There's both "nature and nurture" I would assume. They have innate traits based on their ship type and its image, but also traits they picked up throughout their careers. As a training ship, Utah was responsible for essentially raising and teaching the other ships. So, regardless of her ship type, she becomes a mother figure. Different ships have different personalities, even within the same class, much less the same type. But the type and class definitely would have an influence too.
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My personal stance is:

You are what you subconciously think other people see you as.

That will be my justification in the case of starting a world with summoning.
 
AlphaDelta said:
My personal stance is:

You are what you subconciously think other people see you as.

That will be my justification in the case of starting a world with summoning.
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That might result in some issues for girls like Submarine I-8, since she'd likely be a monster because of what her crew did. Whereas in most of the better fics that use her, she's rejected her old crew and despises them for what they did.
 
Arawn_Emrys said:
That might result in some issues for girls like Submarine I-8, since she'd likely be a monster because of what her crew did. Whereas in most of the better fics that use her, she's rejected her old crew and despises them for what they did.
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You could also apply that to any ship that fought for Nazi germany since most everyone would view them as monstrous machines of death that fought for the most evil nation in history.
 
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