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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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:p
 
This is the age before computers were a thing, if anything it wouldn't be ones and zeroes they would be dots and dashes.

-...-
 
Have a documentary from back when History Channel actually did history:



Wake, at least part of it, will be next. Hopefully this week since my job is less a job and more a 'hey, want to work a few hours and then have the rest of the week off even though you need to pay off student loans?' thing.

Thus, I have plenty of time. In theory.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:
Have a documentary from back when History Channel actually did history:



Wake, at least part of it, will be next. Hopefully this week since my job is less a job and more a 'hey, want to work a few hours and then have the rest of the week off even though you need to pay off student loans?' thing.

Thus, I have plenty of time. In theory.
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Back when I had the time and money to go to college, I spoke to a history professor who said back when the History Channel first came out, he and his fellow historians often called it the Hitler Channel, because it seemed in those days to focus exclusively on World War Two, and within that primarily on the Third Reich and Europe.

Then there was a time when they ran Making Marines every few months.

Their obsession with Pawn Stars and such is likely just a phase, just as those were.

I actually did like American Pickers.
 
Grumpkin said:
Their obsession with Pawn Stars and such is likely just a phase
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To be fair to History Channel, I've learned a bit more of world and American (USA) history from the things brought into that store than I did in school in America (USA).

To be brutally honest, the real problem with History Channel, is whichever group owns History Channel.
(much like how Sci-Fi Channel's problem is that NBC owns it, and doesn't want to carry "professional" wrestling on any of it's other channels, so it gets dumped onto the one channel it should never be on)
 
I mean, that's as much a thing with the American education system as anything else. And I say that as a teacher.

It's a common joke-that-isn't-a-joke with me that I've learned more from Sabaton songs (and looking up things about said songs) than my history classes taught me.
 
I don't know if that's quite fair.

History classes, by necessity, can only teach the broad strokes. There isn't enough time to learn about every last war, battle, heroic moment, and so on.

That being said, yes, the American school system is awful. The fact that World History has as much significance placed on it as US history is... a little off. I think we spent... two days on World War Two? Even less on WW1.
 
History classes cover the basics you *must* know. But they are woefully lacking on the details of those basics.
 
Look, a lot of it is time constraints. When you have to cover a few thousand years of history in a year of classes, there simply isn't time for more than a surface understanding.
 
PAGDTenno said:
Look, a lot of it is time constraints. When you have to cover a few thousand years of history in a year of classes, there simply isn't time for more than a surface understanding.
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Wait, what? Why would you only have a year? In Canada we start learning history with the greeks/egyptians in like... grade 3? I think... Anyway we usually move forward a few centuries every year until grade 12 where we cover modern day.
 
Grounders10 said:
Wait, what? Why would you only have a year? In Canada we start learning history with the greeks/egyptians in like... grade 3? I think... Anyway we usually move forward a few centuries every year until grade 12 where we cover modern day.
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In the US, World History is a high school course. You take it for a year. Elementary school tends to focus on local history, and middle school tends to focus on civics. High school is where world history and US history are taught, and each is a single year.
 
PAGDTenno said:
In the US, World History is a high school course. You take it for a year. Elementary school tends to focus on local history, and middle school tends to focus on civics. High school is where world history and US history are taught, and each is a single year.
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... We spend two year, Grades 8 and 9, focusing mainly on north american history post colonization up to the turn of the 20th century... grade 10 usually covers the world wars, 11 the cold war, 12 the post-cold war/modern era. Only grades 11 and 12 are optional... I just... How is your country functional???
 
And for the most part, each state has different standards for the curriculum. To see how bad it's gotten? Take the history textbook of the average US or World History 101 college course today. That was the standard textbook for my sophomore World History course in 1992. Even more extreme example? Today's textbook was taught at the 6th grade in 1956.
 
This might be because of my experience is based in Charter Schools, but one of the biggest issues I have with US history education is priorities. Beyond a year dedicated to state history, a year in US history, and a year in civics, my elementary school wasted a school year educating their students about the Mayans, instead of a civilization in Europe or Asia that actually influenced the course of human civilization (At least pick an empire that left a successor, please).

Thus, an entire class of 5th graders was successfully cured of their interest in ancient history, because events in the Mayan civilization aren't exactly well documented and thus there wasn't a single noteworthy historical event to discuss. Why waste precious class time speculating why the Mayan civilization fell, when your students could learn a lot more from, say, the bronze age collapse, the gradual decline of the Romans, Japan's rise and fall as an imperial power, or the Mongolian Empire?


Hell, I didn't even have the option to study a World History class until college.
 
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There's also just... way too much focud on ancient history.

The Greeks were important, yes. They weren't more important than the Chinese, World War 2, the Industrial Revolution, and the rise of Japan combined.
 
Grounders10 said:
... We spend two year, Grades 8 and 9, focusing mainly on north american history post colonization up to the turn of the 20th century... grade 10 usually covers the world wars, 11 the cold war, 12 the post-cold war/modern era. Only grades 11 and 12 are optional... I just... How is your country functional???
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Because you don't need history in your day-to-day life, and it's just not relevant to most people's lives. I find it interesting, but I imagine most of you don't find a discussion of the best way to achieve target airflow in an CCGT generation plant terribly riveting.

People have varying interests, and life goes on without everyone knowing everything about everything.
 
Wobulator said:
There's also just... way too much focud on ancient history.

The Greeks were important, yes. They weren't more important than the Chinese, World War 2, the Industrial Revolution, and the rise of Japan combined.
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Actually, I would argue that the Ancient Greeks are very important. Their culture and civilization formed one of the backbones of western civilization. They gave us democracy, various fields of science and influential philosophies. Just because some history is ancient does not make it useless.
 
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newwriter said:
Actually, I would argue that the Ancient Greeks are very important. Their culture and civilization formed one of the backbones of western civilization. They gave us democracy, various fields of science and influential philosophies. Just because some history is ancient does not make it useless.
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He didn't say they're unimportant. He said they're not more important than the rest of history combined.

Please don't mischaracterize someone's argument just because you don't agree with them.

That said, I think we're getting badly off topic.
 
As someone who is legally certified to teach (albeit only in Kansas right now because getting a teaching license for even one extra state ain't cheap, yo), the primary issue stems from requirements. There's a strong requirement to focus on practical* classes. This tends to lead to a heavier focus on stuff like English, Reading (though this one is going the way of the dodo), Communication Arts or Math. History is seen as something that you need to know for state tests, more than as something important to learn.

As a result, you're going to see nothing more than the basics at lower levels. American history is a large part, and that includes native history. World History tends to get glossed over a lot, though it depends on schools. The middle school I finished my student teaching at covered ancient Greece, Ancient China and ancient India, along with some modern geography. None of it in huge detail, since it was just one semester for those, but still. After that it went into more modern stuff.

By contrast, the first school I student taught at had a year for geography, after the students already took a year of that in middle school. They only took World History after that. There were probably a dozen science classes up for offer, but there was only one history elective (World War 2, limited to Seniors). The school I graduated from back in the day had a focus on American/World History and Government both covered under social studies, with a couple electives for history (Modern Warfare, Ancient History). And as awesome as having an ex-Marine sniper teach the modern warfare class (you better believe no one misbehaved in that one :V ) it wasn't much.

It's just what the American education system is focused on.

But yes, drifting off topic now. I could probably do a whole lecture on this, but that would be for a different thread (something in the History subforum, most likely)


*as for practical classes, I would dispute the classification. The average person isn't going to need calculus in their day to day life any more than they need to know how Hannibal crossed the Alps.

That is probably the fact I'm absolute garbage at math speaking, though.
 
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PAGDTenno said:
He didn't say they're unimportant. He said they're not more important than the rest of history combined.

Please don't mischaracterize someone's argument just because you don't agree with them.

That said, I think we're getting badly off topic.
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That is what exactly he said. Western history such as the history of the Ancient Greeks has such an importance in the United States because of what the Ancient Greeks did for us. For our system of government. The importance of the Greeks is seen in the classical architecture in the US capital and in our very own idea of government. The Chinese did not give us that nor did the Japanese.
I am not mischaracterizing his argument. But as you said, we are getting off topic.

Edit: I should not have sent this as I was getting off topic. Sorry.
 
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Skywalker_T-65 said:
*as for practical classes, I would dispute the classification. The average person isn't going to need calculus in their day to day life any more than they need to know how Hannibal crossed the Alps.
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Largely correct. Algebra and geometry on the other hand, are much more useful, to say nothing of statistics.
 
I will say I am not the person to talk to about what math is useful and what math isn't, because the fact I managed to pass my math classes is nothing short of a miracle. And I tend to dislike it on a general basis because of that :V

more on topic:

 
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