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Changing Destiny (Kancolle)

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The Atlanta's, like most US cruisers, where top heavy. In heavy storms they risked Rolling.

Atlanta's where to never get caught in a storm without a heavy fuel and Ammo load.
 
Fallenblades643 said:
The Atlanta's, like most US cruisers, where top heavy. In heavy storms they risked Rolling.

Atlanta's where to never get caught in a storm without a heavy fuel and Ammo load.
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Worse. Pat of the reason they considered the extra turrets such a bad idea was that they messed with the lateral balance and battle damage (such as the one gained through the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal) risked the ship rolling and sinking unless they used carefully controlled flooding to estabilize.
 
Wait, a hull configuration that actually is begging for a twin or triple hull, so it´s more stabile?
Commission date is funny, 1941.
Did they do sea-tank model boat trails, back then or is this more of a recent trend?
Atlanta-class cruiser - Wikipedia

Also saw a nice out of the water pic of the Sea-Jet, made me wonder about one thing, what for rules are there for a Admirals Yacht/Boat?
 
Vianca said:
Wait, a hull configuration that actually is begging for a twin or triple hull, so it´s more stabile?
Commission date is funny, 1941.
Did they do sea-tank model boat trails, back then or is this more of a recent trend?
Atlanta-class cruiser - Wikipedia

Also saw a nice out of the water pic of the Sea-Jet, made me wonder about one thing, what for rules are there for a Admirals Yacht/Boat?
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Vianca. Shut up about the trimaran hulls. Richardson is not a maritime engineer. The technology is at best experimental and extremely unlikely to be implemented with war imminent.
 
At this point is simply not economical or logical to develop any new classes of ships beyond what is already under final revision by Buships, the war is simply too close even if Thompson had godlike influence to make people take his recommendations as gospel.

Frankly at this point the best Thompson can do is to spread the word of the simplest and most successful tactics they can employ against both japanese and germans. Simply getting the Thatch Weave to Navy, Marine Aviation and Army Air Corps will make it way harder for their enemies to shot down the fairly unimpressive early war airplanes. And even that will be hard, only serious casualties can overcome the institutional fights between services.
 
Right now they're at the dangerous toy stage. Anything for military use has to be reliable reliable reliable (if it wasn't a particular general or admiral's pet project).
 
CV12Hornet said:
Vianca. Shut up about the trimaran hulls. Richardson is not a maritime engineer. The technology is at best experimental and extremely unlikely to be implemented with war imminent.
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Not what I was meaning.
One of the reasons of the model boat tank trails, is to make sure the weight is distributed right.
Having it overloaded that much...
Well, somebody must have screwed up some numbers, a ship design should not be begging for a wider hull or even outriggers.

The Atlanta´s where quite overloaded in mass, for that hull design.
But if you look at things like how well the torpedo´s of that time, work, for one...
Seems more and more, to me, that they needed a good house cleaning, the sooner the better.
Too bad they probably just couldn´t switch those guys around, a bit.

As for the Yacht, I was wondering if Thompson(?) bought or builded a yacht, would he have to leave it behind in one port or could he take it with him?
What are the rules on such things, anyway.
 
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Vianca said:
Not what I was meaning.
One of the reasons of the model boat tank trails, is to make sure the weight is distributed right.
Having it overloaded that much...
Well, somebody must have screwed up some numbers, a ship design should not be begging for a wider hull or even outriggers.

The Atlanta´s where quite overloaded in mass, for that hull design.
But if you look at things like how well the torpedo´s of that time, work, for one...
Seems more and more, to me, that they needed a good house cleaning, the sooner the better.

As for the Yacht, I was wondering if Thompson(?) bought or builded a yacht, would he have to leave it behind in one port or could he take it with him?
What are the rules on such things, anyway.
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One marginally questionable design was and is not evidence of a systemic problem. The torpedoes? Yeah, BuOrd needed to be taken out back and shot for that one. But the design teams generally did excellent work for the US Navy during this era. Certainly they never had anything on par with the Tomodzuru Incident.

Also... why in the world would Thompson need a yacht?
 
More wondering on my part, about the rules of such a thing.

Say, would Torpedo Nets placed like fishing nets, work in Pearl, in 1941?
Or would that just make things worse?
 
Vianca said:
More wondering on my part, about the rules of such a thing.

Say, would Torpedo Nets placed like fishing nets, work in Pearl, in 1941?
Or would that just make things worse?
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The big reason torpedo nets weren't in use at Pearl was geography. It was felt that aerial torpedoes weren't a threat because of the shallow water (normally, they would plunge over 100 feet below the surface before coming back up and stabilizing at their set run depth--the Japanese had to invent special wooden fins to prevent that), submarine torpedoes weren't a threat because of there being only one easily-defended entrance to the harbor (which was guarded with unmarked torpedo nets and destroyers patrolling just outside the channel, with the Ward famously bagging an IJN mini-sub before the start of the attack), and surface torpedoes weren't a threat because, well, the odds of anyone EVER being able to run a flotilla of destroyers up through that one channel without getting moidalized by shore batteries, patrolling destroyers, and the alerted-by-said-destroyers-and-booms secondary guns of the Pacific Fleet were pretty much zero.

If Thompson could show that aerial torpedoes could be used in such shallow water, then it's likely that torpedo nets would be deployed to protect the fleet, and thus Oklahoma and West Virginia would weather the attack much better than OTL. However, I doubt he has the technical knowledge needed to produce a "back of the napkin" sketch that BuOrd could do some hasty model tests of--which is too bad, because that is one place where a carrier admiral could easily get heard. "Hey, I was just thinking, do you think there might be a way to use torpedo bombers to attack in shallow water, by adding something to the fish so they don't dive so deep? It'd make it so that we could do a lot more damage striking at harbors..." would probably be enough to justify it--if he could sketch something out.
 
rdfox said:
The big reason torpedo nets weren't in use at Pearl was geography. It was felt that aerial torpedoes weren't a threat because of the shallow water (normally, they would plunge over 100 feet below the surface before coming back up and stabilizing at their set run depth--the Japanese had to invent special wooden fins to prevent that), submarine torpedoes weren't a threat because of there being only one easily-defended entrance to the harbor (which was guarded with unmarked torpedo nets and destroyers patrolling just outside the channel, with the Ward famously bagging an IJN mini-sub before the start of the attack), and surface torpedoes weren't a threat because, well, the odds of anyone EVER being able to run a flotilla of destroyers up through that one channel without getting moidalized by shore batteries, patrolling destroyers, and the alerted-by-said-destroyers-and-booms secondary guns of the Pacific Fleet were pretty much zero.

If Thompson could show that aerial torpedoes could be used in such shallow water, then it's likely that torpedo nets would be deployed to protect the fleet, and thus Oklahoma and West Virginia would weather the attack much better than OTL. However, I doubt he has the technical knowledge needed to produce a "back of the napkin" sketch that BuOrd could do some hasty model tests of--which is too bad, because that is one place where a carrier admiral could easily get heard. "Hey, I was just thinking, do you think there might be a way to use torpedo bombers to attack in shallow water, by adding something to the fish so they don't dive so deep? It'd make it so that we could do a lot more damage striking at harbors..." would probably be enough to justify it--if he could sketch something out.
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He could ask the british for the tricks they used for their own aerial raid but considering his ongoing feud with BuOrd that won't be possible. They remember that he warned about the failures on the aerial torpedopes and tried to do the same with the surface ones, and those guys are dangerously stubborn.
 


While I work on the next chapter, have Best Carrier.

This, incidentally, is among the reasons I consider her downright the prettiest carrier we've ever had.
 
Skywalker_T-65 said:


While I work on the next chapter, have Best Carrier.

This, incidentally, is among the reasons I consider her downright the prettiest carrier we've ever had.
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I agree the best part of using battlecruiser hulls is the sleek hull I personally like how the deck doesn't end in an over hang it ends with the hull giving such nice angles so much better to the late war look
 
MagisterAurelius said:
Right now they're at the dangerous toy stage. Anything for military use has to be reliable reliable reliable (if it wasn't a particular general or admiral's pet project).
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The Germans actually were really starting to experiment with Helicopters as we recognize them around this time, actually before the 40s, with first the Focke-Wulf Fw-61 which first flew on June 26th 1936, before you say that the Fw-61 also known as the Fa-61 (because Focke-Wulf wanted to focus on Airplanes so they started the spin-off company Focke-Achgelis to focus on helicopters) is an Autogryo, the small propeller in front of the engine was used for cooling purposes for the engine. The Fa-223 Drache or Dragonfly was the successor to the Fa-61, it first flew on August 3rd 1940 and entered service in 1941, they were rather impressive too, capable of lifting an entire Fieseler Stork also known as the Fi 156, that thing empty weighs 1,900 pounds and the entire fuselage of a Bf-109, now whether that BF-109 fuselage was fully fitted out with an engine and the like I don't know. But still, very impressive for the world's first helicopter. Even if they look more like a CH-46, but the rotors have been attached to either side of the body rather than the ends, but the point still stands, they were actual honest to god helicopters, even if they looked closer to the Mil V-12 than say a UH-1 Huey.

Considering we are in what, 1940 right now in terms of the story, in roughly two years the Germans will bring the Flettner Fl 282, which first flew sometime in 1941, an intermeshing rotor helicopter design, the world's first series production helicopter into service.

I mean, they had reliability issues, but the Germans well, they managed to get it to work. Heck, by the end of the war, they even had a Helicopter Squadron, TS/40 or Transportstaffel 40, at least five Fl 282s and three Fa 223s.

But this is all OTL and not this timeline, so I am not sure if it will apply in this timeline.
 
Igor Sikorsky was already experimenting with helicopters during the late 30s, too; the iconic R-4 Hoverfly first flew in 1942, and entered US Army service in 1943. By 1944, they were flying medevac/SAR missions on the Burma Road, and to ferry aircraft parts between six ships the Army had bought to serve as floating aircraft repair depots in the South Pacific. Since Sikorsky's biggest problem was limited funding for development of his designs before the outbreak of war, Thompson might--MIGHT--be able to get that moved up a year or so by pointing out its potential benefits to the Navy, but they still won't be useful on the battlefield before mid-1943 even if he does.
 
With funding, you might be able to shear some years of.
As in, enough money to hire people & buy machines, to rush development.
Might just get it´s first flight in 41, mass production in 42.
Getting the Carrier & Battleship Admirals behind that concept, with enough good reasons, might even make the Army & Airforce to take note of the project enough to ad in their own support.
And even the Vought-Sikorsky VS-300 - Wikipedia could make a difference, think MASH, the serie, how they used their medical evac heli´s, for one, since they sure as hell would be able to spot from, especially if you can mount a camera or radar unit on them.
 
Vianca said:
With funding, you might be able to shear some years of.
As in, enough money to hire people & buy machines, to rush development.
Might just get it´s first flight in 41, mass production in 42.
Getting the Carrier & Battleship Admirals behind that concept, with enough good reasons, might even make the Army & Airforce to take note of the project enough to ad in their own support.
And even the Vought-Sikorsky VS-300 - Wikipedia could make a difference, think MASH, the serie, how they used their medical evac heli´s, for one, since they sure as hell would be able to spot from, especially if you can mount a camera or radar unit on them.
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The helicopters used by M.A.S.H during Korean War, weren't Vought-Sikorsky VS-300s, but were in fact Bell H-13 Siouxes which first flew on December 8th, 1945. Then again, that's just a nitpick. Also the British actually experimented with at sea landings with Helicopters during WWII, on a modified frieghter: the SS Daghestan, that started in 1944. The Brits called the R-4 the Hoverfly and the name stuck. But the Americans did manage to do, at least according to my google-fu (seriously that sounds alot better in one's head) two rescues during WWII in the China-Burma-India Theater.

The biggest thing that Thompson can do to advocate the introduction of the R-4 quicker. Is quite simple, it can do given the right engine and a set of hardpoints, combined with a Magnetic Anomaly Detector which did exist back during WWII, they can do Anti-Submarine Warfare really well. Because, well, with the MAD gear, DD or depending on the class a CL detects a possible submarine contact, they send the Helo out, have it do a couple of passes with the MAD gear until either A. it gets a "madman" wherein it detects a submarine with it's MAD gear and verifies for a fact that their is a submarine in the area. B. It spots a periscope feather, which is another telltale hint that hey there is a sub in the area. C. Spots a torpedo wake, another telltale hint. D. Finds nothing.

Now while strapping Depth Charges to this thing might be hard, putting some MAD gear on it, probably wouldn't be all that hard. So while it can't kill the submarine, it can vector destroyers onto it. Which nothing scares a submariner more than seeing a DD bearing down on him, a bone in it's teeth. The same goes for suddenly hearing active sonar pings or depth charges entering the water. That alone would make both the CV and BB Admirals go "Well, now ain't that a bright idea! Those newfangled R-4s that Shikorsy is cooking up, they could be used to protect our Capital, Troop, and Logisitic ships from maruading enemy submarines. Meaning we can cut down somewhat on DDs and focus on something that's more useful, like more Heavy Cruisers, Battleships, and Aircraft Carriers!"
 
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