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Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

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Armed Merchant Marine, AMM
-Converted Freighter (1E, 3O) (3M)
-Engine: Merchant (1A 1M, Fuel Efficient) (1M)
-Omni: Self Defense Battery (Short Range, Damage 1) (1M), Navigational Shields (Shield 1) (1M), Hull Armor (Armor .5) (1M)
-Bridge: Merchant (1M)
-LS: Essential (2M)
-Sensors: Merchant(1M)
-Warp: Budget (4M)
-Housing: Barracks (1M)
Total: 16M

Is the current AMM and it only does 1 damage per turn vs the 4 a corvette does. The corvette shields give Shield 2, .5 Armor that is more then what the two older parts of the AMM give.

Happerry said:
While turning that hulk into a heavy carrier appeals, if I do so it'll so it can anchor a carrier unit. It's our only non-escort grade hull we have available right now, and even if we don't have the stuff to put it into full use yet sending it over to the garrison unit would be a waste.
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I agree in my plan i am adding it to the 1st naval squadron as we use that as our main fighting formation.
 
EternalStruggle said:
Your plan has two fewer ships, not one. Don't lie.
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2x Armed Merchant Marine (32M), 3rd Patrol Squadron (new)
1x Resolute-class Corvette (26M), 3rd Patrol Squadron (new
2x Castigation-Class Torpedo Corvette (70M), 1st Torpedo Squadron (new)

5
vs.
4

1x Resolute-A-class Corvette (29M), 3rd Patrol Squadron (new)
1x Resolute-A-class Corvette (29M), 1rd Naval Squadron
1x Resolute-A-class Corvette (29M), 2rd Naval Squadron
1x Castigation-Class Torpedo Corvette (35M), 1st Naval Squadron

Yeah just 1 less. No lie.

Happerry said:
snip
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Also reminder Resolute-A is the ship with better engines. There is no point of bulding normal Resolutes when we have A versions.
 
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If you really want 5 new ships vote for something like this:
[] 5 modern ships
-[] Repair all damaged vessels. (79M, 1A)
-[] Move 2 Armed Merchant Marine ships and the resolute from the 1st naval squadron to from the 3th patrol squadron
-[] Create 2x Imperial Guard Infantry Armies. (6M)
-[] Construct 1x Arbalest-Class Torpedo Destroyers (34M), to the 1st torpedo squadron
-[] Hull: Sabre-class Corvette Hull (2 W, 1 D, 1 E (2 Accel Max), 2 U (5M)
-[] Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (Damage 2, Short Ranged. (2M)
-[] Weapon: Duet Torpedo Tubes (2M) + 6x "Indignant"-[X]model Torpedo: (Torpedo 3, Accel 4, Maneuver 2) (1M per Torpedo)
-[] Defense: Haptrix-[X]Pattern Rapid Shields (Shield 2, .5 Armor. (4M)
-[] Engine: Militarized Engine (Acceleration 2, Maneuver 2, Fuel Efficient) (3M)
-[] Utility: Repair Deck (2M)
-[] Utility: Cargo Hold (0M)
-[] Bridge: Merchant (1M)
-[] Sensors: T-100 Auspex (2M)
-[] Warp: Merchant (4M)
-[] LS: Essential (2M)
-[] Housing: Barracks (1M)

-[] Bulk Hauler Frame Langley 25M for the 1st naval squadron
-[] Hull: Rebuilt Bulk Hauler (3U,1W,1D,1E,1O)
-[] Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Arvus Combat Lighters (2M)
-[] Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ Starhawk Bomber Squadron (7M)
-[] Utility: 1x Cargo Hangar w/ 1 Fury Squadron (7M)
-[] Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (Damage 2, Short Ranged. (2M)
-[] Defense: Shield 1M
-[] Omni: Scaffold Armor (Armor 1.5) (2M)
-[] Engine: Merchant 1M
-[] Bridge: Merchant (1M)
-[] Sensors: Sensors: T-100 (2M)
-[] Life Support: Expansive
-[] Housing: Barracks
-[] Warp: Merchant

-[] Resolute-A class Corvette(30M), to the 1st naval squadron x2, to the 1st torpedo squadron x1
-[] Sabre-class Hull (2W,1D,1E (Two Acceleration Maximum), 2U. (5M)
-[] Weapons: 2x Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (Damage 2, Short Ranged. (4M)
-[] Defense: Haptrix Rapid Shields (4M)
-[] Engine: Militarized Engine (Acceleration 2, Maneuver 2, Fuel Efficient) (3M)
-[] Utility: Cargo Hold (0M), Repair Deck (2M)
-[] Bridge: Merchant (1M)
-[] Sensors: T-100 (2M)
-[] Warp: Merchant (4M)
-[] Life Support: Essential (2M)
-[] Housing: Barracks (1M)
 
sunrise said:
Is the current AMM and it only does 1 damage per turn vs the 4 a corvette does. The corvette shields give Shield 2, .5 Armor that is more then what the two older parts of the AMM give.
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...Ok, this is my bad. I remembered us giving the AMM schematic an update a turn or so ago and we haven't done that.

That does make stripping them out to make garrison units a lot more attractive. Hmm. @EternalStruggle, @Reliable_2IC would you mind if I swapped the two AMMs in my plan for one of this version of the Resolute-A, and them moving the two AMMs from the first naval squadron to the new patrol squadron? Asking before editing because you two are currently voting for my plan.

Resolute-A (31M)
- Hull: Sabre-class Corvette Hull (2U) (5M)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2M)
- Weapon: Standard Macrocannon Battery MkI (2M)
- Defense: Haptrix-Pattern Rapid Shields (Shield 2, .5 Armor.) (4M)
- Utility: Repair Deck (2M)
- Utility: Cargo Hold (0M)
- Engine: Militarized Engine (Acceleration 2, Maneuver 2, Fuel Efficient) (3M)
- Bridge: Groupsight Combat Bridge (4M)
- Sensors: T-100 Auspex (2M)
- Warp: Merchant (4M)
- LS: Essential (2M)
- Housing: Barracks (1M)
 
Happerry said:
That does make stripping them out to make garrison units a lot more attractive. Hmm. @EternalStruggle, @Reliable_2IC would you mind if I swapped the two AMMs in my plan for one of this version of the Resolute-A, and them moving the two AMMs from the first naval squadron to the new patrol squadron? Asking before editing because you two are currently voting for my plan.
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Eh, sure. I disagree, but I get if this is what it takes to get a dedicated torpedo squadron...
 
EternalStruggle said:
Eh, sure. I disagree, but I get if this is what it takes to get a dedicated torpedo squadron...
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Can I ask what specifically you disagree about it? It would seem to me the other option would be to uprate the AMM schematic to actually use the parts we've designed, but that would be even more expensive and at that level of rewriting I may as well write a new plan, I'd think.

sunrise said:
Are you replacing the other Resolute with the A version as well?
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The other ship is for the Patrol Squadron, so no. Also because the base version costs 26M and the Resolute-A costs 31M, and the only 'non total plan rewrite' way I can see to free the needed resources up is to completely discard purchasing any armies this turn, and I don't want to make that sacrifice.
 
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Happerry said:
Can I ask what specifically you disagree about it? It would seem to me the other option would be to uprate the AMM schematic to actually use the parts we've designed, but that would be even more expensive and at that level of rewriting I may as well write a new plan, I'd think.
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I mean I just don't care about the patrol squadron AMMs being shit like everyone else, tbh.
 
Problem with going torpedo-heavy is that we need to buy each torpedo and each ship can only carry a handful of the things.

They certainly up the firepower of our navy (particularly when fighting converted merchant ships etc that don't have a ton of PD capability) but they don't have a ton of shots. Next turn we should look into cracking some form of lance weaponry and/or improving our macro cannons. Heck I have to wonder if we could change up the macro-cannon ammo so that we use downsized versions of the Indignant warhead.
DaLintyGuy said:
In the Design phase you will have a number of Actions that may vary between turns but will probably level out at three or four, with which to perform projects such as building new types of guns to mount on your ships or putting in the effort to put substantial garrisons on your warships.
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Question, is it possible to perform research into streamlining construction (ships and/or parts require less Manufacturing Capacity) or improving MC?
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Question, is it possible to perform research into streamlining construction (ships and/or parts require less Manufacturing Capacity) or improving MC?
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It is possible to streamline construction, within limits, and to improve Manufacturing Capacity, although it is likely the latter will take a level of investment to get a return. For example, even if you design a new shipyard you still need to build it with quality materials that would otherwise go elsewhere, using labor that would otherwise be working on building ships, etc.
 
EternalStruggle said:
I mean I just don't care about the patrol squadron AMMs being shit like everyone else, tbh.
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I don't really get this complaint? The AMMs to the patrol squadron are still the base AMMs, them being that shit is just a reason to phase them out from the main combat squads earlier then when I was intending when I misremembered them as actually having more modern parts? The Resolute-A is for the Naval Squadron, not for the patrol squadrons?

jwolfe_beta said:
Problem with going torpedo-heavy is that we need to buy each torpedo and each ship can only carry a handful of the things.

They certainly up the firepower of our navy (particularly when fighting converted merchant ships etc that don't have a ton of PD capability) but they don't have a ton of shots. Next turn we should look into cracking some form of lance weaponry and/or improving our macro cannons. Heck I have to wonder if we could change up the macro-cannon ammo so that we use downsized versions of the Indignant warhead.
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Torpedoes are still really useful verses larger ships though, and we've already been told Space Hulks are starting to show up. 'Canonically' they completely ignore shields and don't need to make any accuracy rolls (they just hit anything their markers come into contact with on the tabletop), and they only they have to roll against is armor. Which is still something to keep in mind, granted. There's also the range advantage of them effectively being space artillery.

Anyway, while I agree we probably don't want to do something like try to make 50% of our forces out of torpedo boats or something like that, I'd like to get at least one torpedo squadron out there so we do actually have them on hand when a Space Hulk shows up or we have to hit a fortified world and could really use the ability to bombard defensive stations from long range or stuff like that.

I do 100% agree that we should look into better guns next turn though. My personal inclination is to bring back Sir_Travelsalot's Plasma Shell Macrocannon design, but it wouldn't be bad to do a lance too.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
They also have the advantage of being counted as an add-on to Macrocannons, so we don't have to have our ships out of action to refit the guns with them.
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I thought that they didn't any more? Well, if they do that's another reason to consider them, but even if they don't it seemed like a solid write up for a new generation of Macrocannon.
 
I'll allow ammunition to be swapped out, although what affects it may have I reserve the right to decide (such as a magazine built to hold solid rounds being packed with plasma shells, and then taking a hit in combat...).
 
Happerry said:
My personal inclination is to bring back Sir_Travelsalot's Plasma Shell Macrocannon design
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I suggested the Indignant shells since it's technology that we have and know how to use. I'm fairly sure the only example of naval-grade plasma-tech (well, plasma used in an offensive manner as opposed to reactors) is the loot we got from the Orks:
Plasma Broadside (Cruiser, Broadside, Damage 5, Short Range).
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And we don't have plasma explosives since that is what normal Imperium torpedoes use for warheads. The fact that we're using the Indignant system means we don't know how to make the things.

As for Lances, we're probably going to want to focus on a down-graded version because the baseline Imperium version apparently requires artisanal work:
1x IN Lance (Damage 3, Long Range)(5M,2A) (+1 to designing your own)
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And if it requires that in the Imperium, we might simply not be able to make the things.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
I'll allow ammunition to be swapped out, although what affects it may have I reserve the right to decide (such as a magazine built to hold solid rounds being packed with plasma shells, and then taking a hit in combat...).
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All depends on if the design phase rolls well for them. 's like how a missile's warhead isn't armed before you fire it, so it taking a hit doesn't blow off the aircraft's wing and all that.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
I suggested the Indignant shells since it's technology that we have and know how to use. I'm fairly sure the only example of naval-grade plasma-tech (well, plasma used in an offensive manner as opposed to reactors) is the loot we got from the Orks:

And we don't have plasma explosives since that is what normal Imperium torpedoes use for warheads. The fact that we're using the Indignant system means we don't know how to make the things.

As for Lances, we're probably going to want to focus on a down-graded version because the baseline Imperium version apparently requires artisanal work:

And if it requires that in the Imperium, we might simply not be able to make the things.
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That's just the thing though, the Plasma Bore Shells aren't plasma bombs. They have a plasma generator that's been stripped down to fit in the shell and has an operational lifespan measured in minutes before meltdown used to power an upscaled plasma torch, which is a common tool for voidship tech crews. 's all based on tech we already have.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
That's just the thing though, the Plasma Bore Shells aren't plasma bombs. They have a plasma generator that's been stripped down to fit in the shell and has an operational lifespan measured in minutes before meltdown used to power an upscaled plasma torch, which is a common tool for voidship tech crews. 's all based on tech we already have.
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Then why can't we simply make torpedoes already instead of having to research them? If it was that straightforward, when reasearching the torpedo system we'd simply create plasma torpedoes to go with it instead of the Indignant warhead.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
Then why can't we simply make torpedoes already instead of having to research them? If it was that straightforward, when reasearching the torpedo system we'd simply create plasma torpedoes to go with it instead of the Indignant warhead.
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Because the torpedoes have to balance their propulsion fuel, point defense, guidance systems etc. with the power of the warhead, whereas, the Plasma Bore Shells are more the difference between firing solid AP shells and loading the guns with HEAT rounds.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
All depends on if the design phase rolls well for them. 's like how a missile's warhead isn't armed before you fire it, so it taking a hit doesn't blow off the aircraft's wing and all that.
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True. Although basing the shells off of architecture around them gives reason to say that it would be a new module and not just an ammunition change as you would have to route high energy plasma into the containment system inside the shell in the chamber before firing, rather than have the fuel inside the casing.

jwolfe_beta said:
Then why can't we simply make torpedoes already instead of having to research them? If it was that straightforward, when reasearching the torpedo system we'd simply create plasma torpedoes to go with it instead of the Indignant warhead.
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It is arguable that factions would call the Indignant torpedo a primitive plasma torpedo, as it's "active" portion is a jet of superheated material whereas a default atomic warhead does damage by emitting heat and ionizing radiation at a target.
 
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