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Blood, Sweat, and Tears (WH40k Design Bureau)

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@F0lkL0re, hmm I don't think you need the faraday cage or the heat sinks, just use militarized engines that look like freighter engines and have it run at civilian engine speeds to generate the signature of a merchant vessel. The faraday cage is unnecessary since active sensors would defeat the purpose of the cage as it will be sending signals similar to a military sensor since most civilian sensors are passive sensors and passive sensors don't need faraday cages and are in fact hindered by it. My suggestion would be to prioritize reinforcing the skeleton to be really tanky and maybe use a bridge add-on for cogitators to increase accuracy without needing active sensors or just have active sensors be toggled off when not in combat.
 
If we refit some of the existing armed merchant men to cargo ships we have ships that are identical to our escort carriers when looked at from range. If we build them with 1x cargo bay hanger +2x cargo bay i do not think you can tell the difference at all until it is to late.
 
DaLintyGuy said:
Internal detonation, that was a carrier based ship.
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This is mostly just writing nit-picking. When you write that a ship burst when hit by a torpedo, generally that implies that the torpedo itself did the damage. By saying that the ship was wracked by internal explosions before bursting like overripe ploin, that says the torpedo set off the internal stores. Its a matter of details I guess.
 
I think we should just build some line ships more resolute with mk2 macro batteries and more lance armed ships to get a back bone then cruisers because they are a big investment and if they get destroyed it's a huge loss . While cruisers Have significant firepower that fire power can only be at in place at one time so I think it's a bit early for cruisers
 
always floppy said:
I think we should just build some line ships more resolute with mk2 macro batteries and more lance armed ships to get a back bone then cruisers because they are a big investment and if they get destroyed it's a huge loss . While cruisers Have significant firepower that fire power can only be at in place at one time so I think it's a bit early for cruisers
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As they say, it's not what you do but how you do it. From a purely deployment point of view, yes making more line ships might be more adventitious. However, there are other benefits that come with having a light cruiser that we otherwise wouldn't have.

To wit, from a diplomatic point of view, having a light cruiser puts us in a significantly better position then just having a bunch of escorts. If we are doing our intelligence works at all well, our neighbors will never know exactly how big or extensive our fleet is because knowing the limits of our deployment envelop is basically one step away from letting others know when and where to shank you for the most effect. So having a lot of ships to go around is not something we can easily leverage in negotiations.

But a light cruiser? We could and should.

That aside, a light cruiser can have psychological impacts in excess of how much it costs. It's an expensive tool, yes, but it is one that allows us leverage that we can't generate by expending it's points somewhere else.
 
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mithril-blade said:
Mind, I am not saying we should start making a bunch of them. For now, a single one is just about all we can afford and that's honestly fine. Otherwise, I say that the time to start cranking out more Indomitables has come.
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With the limit of spending per ship going to 50M this turn building we can afford to build frigates with all modern parts again.
 
Right, so in preparation for the upcoming Design Phase, since people have talking about light cruisers again, I've updated my proposal for the Martinet-class light cruiser hull, taking into account the criticism the original received. Feel free to give more feedback.

(Light Cruiser Hull) Martinet-class Hull: The first Calavan foray into the design of Light Cruisers, the Martinet takes much of its design elements from the purified bulk hauler captured in the initial reclamation of Bailafax. But where the heretics had simply battered the civilian hull into serviceable form, the Martinet has been streamlined and built from a foundation for warships. (2W total, 1 Broadside & 1 Prow, 3D (1 locked to Armor, 1 to Shields), 1U, 1E)
 
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Warmach1ne32 said:
@F0lkL0re, hmm I don't think you need the faraday cage or the heat sinks, just use militarized engines that look like freighter engines and have it run at civilian engine speeds to generate the signature of a merchant vessel. The faraday cage is unnecessary since active sensors would defeat the purpose of the cage as it will be sending signals similar to a military sensor since most civilian sensors are passive sensors and passive sensors don't need faraday cages and are in fact hindered by it. My suggestion would be to prioritize reinforcing the skeleton to be really tanky and maybe use a bridge add-on for cogitators to increase accuracy without needing active sensors or just have active sensors be toggled off when not in combat.
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The idea was that the heat sinks and faraday cages would hide the emissions of it's military systems while it waits for someone to take the bait that a fat, practically unarmed and escort less freighter represents, most pirates and raiders aren't going to bother hiding their approach when they see such a thing.
Which does mean that yes it would be rallying on passives until the enemy where within range.
The objective of a Q-ship is to ambush the raiders.
 
F0lkL0re said:
The idea was that the heat sinks and faraday cages would hide the emissions of it's military systems while it waits for someone to take the bait that a fat, practically unarmed and escort less freighter represents, most pirates and raiders aren't going to bother hiding their approach when they see such a thing.
Which does mean that yes it would be rallying on passives until the enemy where within range.
The objective of a Q-ship is to ambush the raiders.
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Hmmmm, personally, the one thing that I see wrong with this is that the kind of people predating on our ships aren't the kind of people who we need heat sinks and faraday cages to fool. Simply making it look like one of our merchant ships and keeping it's power usage within normal shipping parameters should be enough.
 
mithril-blade said:
Hmmmm, personally, the one thing that I see wrong with this is that the kind of people predating on our ships aren't the kind of people who we need heat sinks and faraday cages to fool. Simply making it look like one of our merchant ships and keeping it's power usage within normal shipping parameters should be enough.
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[shrugs] It's what I thought would work and I don't know exactly what the sensors of the ships we're after would look for so I went to what I thought where the things you would most commonly look for in the void that could be disguised, if anyone has some ideas on how to better manage the idea I would love to hear them.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
Right, so in preparation for the upcoming Design Phase, since people have talking about light cruisers again, I've updated my proposal for the Martinet-class light cruiser hull, taking into account the criticism the original received. Feel free to give more feedback.

(Light Cruiser Hull) Martinet-class Hull: The first Calavan foray into the design of Light Cruisers, the Martinet takes much of its design elements from the purified bulk hauler captured in the initial reclamation of Bailafax. But where the heretics had simply battered the civilian hull into serviceable form, the Martinet has been streamlined and built from a foundation for warships. (2W total, 1 Broadside & 1 Prow, 3D (1 locked to Armor, 1 to Shields), 1U, 1E)
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That's seven slots total, which I think moves it into full-size Cruiser territory. @DaLintyGuy, is that correct?

As far as fighting the Locroft goes, I'm not sure we can do much better than the Herald. They have 1.5 acceleration on Locroft ships, better range, enough armor to pose problems (especially the Stormherald, which has 3.5), and pack lances to deal with Locroft armor. We could scale up to a War Hawk hull to add a second lance, I suppose. (I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't do more, honestly. It seems like they could have been harassing the Locroft nonstop, and not suffered much in return.)
 
Also any cruiser that we build will have to be prototype or a class of one just because of the challenges of building a ship larger and more complex than what we are used to ,not to mention the cost
 
always floppy said:
Also any cruiser that we build will have to be prototype or a class of one just because of the challenges of building a ship larger and more complex than what we are used to ,not to mention the cost
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Eh... kind of? We don't have the budget to build two in parallel (although it's not totally silly to think we might start a second next turn), but in principle there's nothing stopping us from building more of the same design later. Of course, in practice there are a couple of issues; we'll probably have better techs by then, and we're likely going to use non-reproducible salvage on some of our cruisers.
 
Happerry said:
We do already have a Lance Hawk built, so...
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So...?

The real downside is that they're more expensive (7M, 1A if we add a second lance and change nothing else), and there's so much stuff we need... armed freighters (probably by refitting our remaining AMMs), ships to replace the AMMs in our patrol squadrons (probably by demoting Resolutes), ships to replace those, ships to replace our losses...
 
Vanigo said:
The real downside is that they're more expensive (7M, 1A if we add a second lance and change nothing else), and there's so much stuff we need... armed freighters (probably by refitting our remaining AMMs), ships to replace the AMMs in our patrol squadrons (probably by demoting Resolutes), ships to replace those, ships to replace our losses...
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Fair enough, though I'd still prefer to do cargo by way of the Bulk Hauler instead of small ships if we can.
 
Happerry said:
Fair enough, though I'd still prefer to do cargo by way of the Bulk Hauler instead of small ships if we can.
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I ran the numbers on that. We don't know what a new bulk hauler hull would cost, but building a bulk hauler with the essentials plus mk1 macrocannons, navigational shields, and merchant thrusters (with cargo holds in all three utility slots and the omni) would cost 38M plus whatever the hull costs. Since I doubt it'd be 12M or less for the hull, we wouldn't be able to get it out this turn. Also, refitting our AMMs costs only 3.5M each, so although a bulk hauler would be more efficient if we were building them from scratch, refitting our obsolete AMMs probably saves us a bunch.
 
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Turn Eight Design Phase
  • Threadmarks
    • The economic benefits of supplying a victorious total war could not be overstated. Resources and talent from all over the Crusade flowed into Calavar and while most of it flowed right back out in order to keep the young realm protected the political consequences created a great deal of value for those able to capitalize on the demand for war material. Even the common man, with a great deal of luck, could rotate out after their period of service with a great deal of good will, buying power, and even land on a reclaimed planet.
    By far the greatest effect was seen on the dockyard over Calavar-V. Despite the government mandate levied on all military production the same government had paid it back with the expansion of their facilities. Once the Crusade was over it would serve admirably as the linchpin of the Subsector's new order.

    Bailafax has flourished as well. With a minimal Tithe levied the world has recovered well from the devastation wrought over it's successive invasions. Mountain fortresses beat out a steady stream of product while the lowlands have been covered in refugees that tend to the fungus that once was the defining feature of the world. New refineries have been put in place for the pharma produced by the villages to convert it for transport to the military complex that kept it's aegis over the reclaimed world.

    By contrast, Uniary is a shell of what it once was. Manufactorums staffed by military personnel have renewed their production yet the extraction sites that support them are harassed by Chaos "beastmen". The survivors of the world are culturally traumatized even still, to the point that outsiders are not lightly tolerated in their fortified spires and caverns. Something that is regrettably still necessary even after the culling of the Traitor forces on the world as their ritual sites have remained tainted zones that mutate the already often dangerous wildlife into ever worse forms.

    It is a time of triumph and hope, as the enemies of the Crusade fall one by one.

    =====

    Lord Admiral: Despite it being propaganda there is an element of truth to what we tell the common people. Still. There is no success on resting on our laurels and the next development cycles are coming up now that we have gone over our recent campaigns for all of the combat data that they can provide.

    In more useful news, the Eastern War has calmed enough due to lack of ability to project power for either side that we should be able to send a detachment to formalize an end of hostilities in a way to try and save face for Gehault and get them to turn back to hunting raiders and pirates.
    As well, there is the matter of the hull our troops pulled out of that Space Hulk. The amount of volume and technology contianed demand a large expenditure of resources to get even a survey done in a reasonable timeframe. The need for experienced Mechanicus personnel alone will diminish our ability to do other projects yet... It may be worth it to deploy the vessel once more.

    Further afield there are interests regarding our shipbuilding and the ability to buy some of our production. Yttreum is in a slightly less frantic position now that hostilities have ended and they have gotten their hands on one of our escort carriers through Lexicalum interests but they and the Alignment are both still in dire straights when it comes to naval warfare. Their ability to pay varies, with the Dark Stars mostly offering ground force equipment that can either equip new armies or be distributed to new PDF units while Yttreum is mostly insolvent but has the allegiance of a number of highly skilled pirates and agents who sought to take Gehault ships and equipment while it was "acceptable" to do so.





    Current Technology available in the matching Informational Threadmark.
    Current ship classes are present in the Naval Registry Threadmark.


    [You have four (4) Design actions available.]

    [The Strange Ship can be examined as a Design action.]
    [Yttreum and the Dark Star Alignment are seeking to buy ship hulls. Is this something that can be allowed and if so, how much and what are they authorized to buy?]

    [Cruiser Plasma Broadside available for trade with Lexicalum or a Forge World. Strange Ship "can" be traded to a Forge World although you will likely get more if you know what it is first.]

    [Six hour moratorium on voting to encourage discussion.]
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Hmm. Does that mean that Yttreum is no longer soliciting donations? I'm not opposed to selling more Spatha hulls.

    Design-wise... cruiser, strange ship, point defense, plasma lance?
     
    I'm of the opinion that we should curtail Dark Star's naval capability as much as is feasible. Our current arrangement with Yttreum is adequate for the moment, but we might consider floating the possibility of being more tied to us politically in exchange for better ships before them.

    With regards to the strange ship, I'm ambivalent. There's far too much that needs to get made right now to make it a sure pick, especially since archeotech, if that is what it is, can take whole centuries of continuous study in Forge Worlds.
     
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