Yeah but there's a difference between overbuilding and the QM saying we fucked over our automobile industry. In addition before the QM said the lack of automobiles and roads were hurting actual common people because not everyone was in the rail system or has the money/nepotism to get a spot on the rail schedule so if you are like a rural peasant trying to move something you are fucked because the party appratchnik will always beat you out in getting a spot on the railway
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
- Start date
- Alt. History Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The cars would have been very profitable which then we could then invest into other stuff, but the problem was that there wasn't some investment is that there was barely any that wasn't forced by the politicians to make them, like seriously people are missing the point of the information.
Brother, describing the absolute state of the consumer goods sector in 1950s stalinist USSR as cooperatives "picking up consumer goods production" is objectively hilarious, the fact that they existed showed how dire the state was.(ours was a disaster similar in scope, in the 50s ITL the private sector was tiny, the tinsiest private sector that ever was)
Thats where a lot of the Voz era consumer goods production came from, under Malenkovs (and much more after Kosygin) reforms the private sector was legally allowed to exist and they set up a bunch of actually profitable consumer goods industry, after which Voz came in, game massive capital investments, bought controlling shares while keeping the same people in charge.
This:
Unironically the Malenkov era was such a giant cluster fuck that it discedited central planning.
Comrade Future
Man from Zeerust
- Location
- USSR
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Buses. It's strange that no one talks about them. And most agricultural workers still won't be able to buy a car.
I have an idea. How about road trains. Instead of using rails, we put them on something called a "road". These road trains will use rubber wheels meaning they can carry passengers into areas unreachable by rail.
Well you weren't building those either. Blackstar said chat derailed the ENTIRE automotive industry so it isn't like we have a supply of buses capable of doing that either thanks to our monofocus on rails
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
I TOLD PEOPLE TO FINISH THE FUCKING HALF-COMPLETED BUS FACTORY YET YOU GUYS KEPT POSTPONING IT FOR OTHER STUFF, REEEEEEEEEE
- Pronouns
- Viewer
Yea we eventually build lots of buses, but than the problem was the road which we finally fixed a lot of the problem even though we still have to pave the local roads at least we did the other ones
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- Location
- The United States
- Pronouns
- She/Her
To an extent, take the numbers with a massive grain of salt/predictions as mirages heavily dependent on economic conditions and variable indicators outside of the most general trends. The education charts are somewhat grounded in the population demographics you have but again don't take them as gospel in any sense.
Glad to see a OOC perspective on the USSR s8nce most of the posts have a pro-USSR bias. I mean it is doing a lot better than it was in OTL but that doesn't make it a utopia or better than America by default.
Some more screenshots from the discord:
He developed productive forces, is what he did. He was a genius Soviet economist. And in this house, Nikolai Voznesensky is a hero. End of story!
(Voz was my favorite protagonist)
He developed productive forces, is what he did. He was a genius Soviet economist. And in this house, Nikolai Voznesensky is a hero. End of story!
(Voz was my favorite protagonist)
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
The Voz would have saved us from oilshock.
- Location
- France
I hate to say it. But the biggest anti-oilshock project we have done so far is heavily investing in electrification of rail while under investing in cars and trucks.
There may be some side-effects to this policy, but in a way we already have been prepping for Oilshock for decades !
There may be some side-effects to this policy, but in a way we already have been prepping for Oilshock for decades !
If Voz was still here, we would have already achieved communism. We would have overtaken the US in GDP per Capita. Every Soviet man and woman would live in a palace.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We are actually doing fine with trucks even if it was late - we manage to build 4 stages of trucking enterprise and 5th stage is telling us that we don't need to import trucks anymore for further expnasion.
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Well... I guess the massive over investment in rail infrastructure at least led to a relative earlier HSL like system. Even if it's pitifully slow for high speed rail (though faster then normal commuter trains), though that also means it's not all to expensive to keep running either at least. But I guess that's why the network hasn't needed nearly as much work since really in anyone elses opinion. Just letting its capacity slowly fill up as the population grows and doing some small additions and upgrades over time.
Guess in a way the network is more what you'd have expected for the 80s or 90s.
Guess in a way the network is more what you'd have expected for the 80s or 90s.
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What are you on it is expensive building that much railway is not going to magically be not expensive.
I started the part you quote with 'massive over investment'. I'm not sure what part of that one would interpret as not expensive.
I was just pondering the further side effects of it and making it more clear to me why this lead to a kind of early higher speed rail. I guess when one spends money like water on rails, that the tech might get pushed forward a bit. Even if it wasn't worth the cost paid versus other areas it could have gone to.
Just to illustrate how we could have noticed the overbuilding of passenger rail i found one of the blurbs from the Voz project
Basically Voz getting told that electricity really isn't viable right now and he should just focus on expanding the network instead of trying to electrify it which he ignores.
Modernization of the core Moscow-Leningrad and Moscow-Keiv routes has been completed, while the rest of the network has effectively been finalized for diesel traction. Electric locomotives have so far been a massive reduction in maintenance costs and fueling costs, with infrastructural maintenance forming only a small part of the overall cost. Construction and electrification is expected to form the majority of the program now, as electrification will be an involved and challenging process. A number of personnel in the ministry have advocated for the building out of the broader HSR network before electrification is implemented on more secondary routes, but they are clearly wrong. The new technology has far more promise than normal diesel traction and the full transition to the electrified rail system pioneered through the HSR program will massively improve overall transport efficiency.
- Location
- Earth, Milky Way
I like that this quest naturally displays how the higher up someone is in an organization the more absolutely disconnected from reality they are, and how little they truly understand anything that's going on. This is coupled with a feeling of understanding and even confidence in their decisions, but the reality is they're often just enormously wrong on important things for long periods of time.
It happens in this quest for the same reasons it does in real life, all we have is reports from our underlings (who are probably lying to and manipulating us, just as their underlings lie to and manipulate them, and so on and so forth).
And half the time we're not even sure what the reports of our underlings even mean. Like a lot of leaders, we've been promoted past our level of competence. We have no training in running massive modern economies (maybe some of us have read many books or watched many documentaries, but I suspect nobody here has been a CEO of F500 company). We're just a bunch of unqualified dilettantes, so we can barely understand the information flowing in, let alone succesfully read between the lines to discern to truth.
But perhaps despite this the world in this timeline is better than in ours, so we shouldn't lose hope, and shouldn't give up!
It happens in this quest for the same reasons it does in real life, all we have is reports from our underlings (who are probably lying to and manipulating us, just as their underlings lie to and manipulate them, and so on and so forth).
And half the time we're not even sure what the reports of our underlings even mean. Like a lot of leaders, we've been promoted past our level of competence. We have no training in running massive modern economies (maybe some of us have read many books or watched many documentaries, but I suspect nobody here has been a CEO of F500 company). We're just a bunch of unqualified dilettantes, so we can barely understand the information flowing in, let alone succesfully read between the lines to discern to truth.
But perhaps despite this the world in this timeline is better than in ours, so we shouldn't lose hope, and shouldn't give up!