Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition
- Thread starter Blackstar
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If mass killing only became genocide upon the successful completion of the murders, I don't think I could name a single genocide.
Regards,
fasquardon
I'm not disagreeing that they are doing there best to genocide, I'm saying that it is not going to help them try to keep there colonial empire it is going to end with them being the training Target of modern gorilla tactics and even radicals that go full terrorist and start car bombing all of France in revenge.
So? They are still doing genocide and we still helped them.
Whether they ultimately lose or not won't bring back the dead.
Regards,
fasquardon
Then we should have not helped them out at all and just let the French do it in a more slow matter then????
True to an extent, but their they are concentrating the populations everywhere and they control the educational system, bureaucracy and many other vital interactions for the population. Well that gives a fair bit of opportunities to shift culture quite a bit over the generations.
The quest master already indicated I thought there is a fair chance that by the 80s with these policies even the interior will have a majority French speakers.
And considering the cities are being consolidated, one imagines the process is far further along there. Depending on how things go, there is a chance increasing parts of the population will stop caring so much for the rebels cause as they don't really get it anymore and they are French enough that they might be being treated fairly well really. One imagines the French are applying such a carrot approach on the other side, combined with the stick they very clearly are wielding.
Basically it is best to not model this as Afghanistan, the local population is very much changing in character with every extra year of this. Because it's not just a colonial war, but also a culture war where they are trying to spread French to an extra area, and that part of the population that has shifted is substantially less likely to rebel.
So considering the next government is already being noted to probably continue along with things, even if 'rationalizing' the policies a bit. The high pressure on the populace will probably continue for the rest of the 70s and we will but have to see if resistance can maintain as much momentum by the 80s as they lose majority in ever more areas.
Sure, but it wouldn't be odd if the French spun off some local administration or even autonomy in time in hopes it will quell local unhappiness. When problems continue long enough and are quite expensive and unpopular in large quarters of the population one tends to seek some alternatives.
And that kind of arrangement wouldn't be strange for OTL France as we start closing in on the latter parts of the 20th century and early 21st.
If it did happen, one would imagine a some what more local administration would be less overbearing and unfair on the local population. Well at least if it was French speaking. But this is but one of a variety of possible outcomes.
One could also speculate that the local populace after many decades of being brutally beaten down might lose some steam as well and seek an alternate solution as well. Or the question on how French culture itself may shift on Algerians, it's a different matter when its a small minority versus a rather sizeable fraction of your entire population. Or alternate one could speculate the government getting so stuck in hostility they forget to show enough carrots and thus self perpetuate the issue to their ruin.
Well which branches it might be will probably in part be determined by the dice as they roll year after year I suppose.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Its not about treatment.
France is expelling Algerians from the coastal areas to the interior where they will die from lack of food and water. Whoever is left is *from France*. Either as a recent colonist or as someone whos family came when the Monarchy conquered Algiers. The unrest is going down in the coastal areas because anyone who has a reason to object to French Racism, on account of being Algerian, has been removed.
France is expelling Algerians from the coastal areas to the interior where they will die from lack of food and water. Whoever is left is *from France*. Either as a recent colonist or as someone whos family came when the Monarchy conquered Algiers. The unrest is going down in the coastal areas because anyone who has a reason to object to French Racism, on account of being Algerian, has been removed.
That totally won't make communities of refugees that have been radicalized and radicalize their kids even more to retake there homeland by any means surely not.....
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We know.
But France will hold the coast, and the most valuable land in the region, while everyone else will be expelled to the desert. They will never control the interior, but the coast will be thoroughly frankified because the French will be the only people left.
I'm not sure that position is entirely accurate. The coast had a substantial enough Francophone loyalist population that France kept it after the first rounds of hostility in this timeline. One imagines this led to a first round of consolidation for the French in this region. At the least I can't recall of any posts indicating loyalist populations are being expelled.
So it seems more likely to me rather then expelling all Algerians, they're expelling anyone suspected of being rebellious or unwilling to be made more French, and pushing them to their newly created centralized towns and possibly camps in the interior. Where they can make it far harder to escape their security forces and the relatively inhospitable empty interior. Basically making them dependent on French water and food shipments to live.
The end result is some what similar guess, just that the coast has kept far more of its population and it would serve as one of the sticks on what it means if you go against current French administration. Those expelled to the interior would obviously then be those who'd be the non-loyalist elements and I guess they just hope they can control and forcibly convert in their central strong points.
I don't think one should underestimate the French though, this is not just a colonialist war. Assuming that a bit to much is why it went horribly wrong the first time. This has more elements of how say China tries to deal with some areas of their country who aren't Chinese enough in their opinion as well. Though unlike the Chinese, the French at least in OTL have shown they're willing to consider more options then just violence. So we'll have to see how it goes.
So it seems more likely to me rather then expelling all Algerians, they're expelling anyone suspected of being rebellious or unwilling to be made more French, and pushing them to their newly created centralized towns and possibly camps in the interior. Where they can make it far harder to escape their security forces and the relatively inhospitable empty interior. Basically making them dependent on French water and food shipments to live.
The end result is some what similar guess, just that the coast has kept far more of its population and it would serve as one of the sticks on what it means if you go against current French administration. Those expelled to the interior would obviously then be those who'd be the non-loyalist elements and I guess they just hope they can control and forcibly convert in their central strong points.
I don't think one should underestimate the French though, this is not just a colonialist war. Assuming that a bit to much is why it went horribly wrong the first time. This has more elements of how say China tries to deal with some areas of their country who aren't Chinese enough in their opinion as well. Though unlike the Chinese, the French at least in OTL have shown they're willing to consider more options then just violence. So we'll have to see how it goes.
And I'm saying that coastal area and France itself will suffer terrorist attacks from radicalized algerians because nothing like a occupied Homeland to make people be very willing to do nasty stuff to innocent people because of their governments decision.
- Location
- The great frozen north
Genocides in north africa, genocides in south africa, genocides in palestine, the foreign news from outside CMEA is depressing. Will there even be a third world left for us to save once we win the cold war?
Speaking of which, perhaps we should pay attention to the fact that the East African Federation is now at war with Ethiopia over Sudan. A CMEA member in full war with a (presumably) western-friendly country. A relatively young CMEA member, that already has commitments dealing with Boers and ex-Portuguese colonies elsewhere, and had some instability in recent terms. I really hope this doesn't break them.
Speaking of which, perhaps we should pay attention to the fact that the East African Federation is now at war with Ethiopia over Sudan. A CMEA member in full war with a (presumably) western-friendly country. A relatively young CMEA member, that already has commitments dealing with Boers and ex-Portuguese colonies elsewhere, and had some instability in recent terms. I really hope this doesn't break them.
We could very easily save the third world countries with one simple solution.
Destroying the crypto fascists in the west with our mighty Red Army. We would be unstoppable in the middle east, no local power would be able to stand a chance against the might of the Red Army.
The French may prove to be a bit more of a challenge, but in the end, they too would fall like the Nazi's did to the heroic soldiers of the Soviet Union. Not to mention, our navy has already defeated the French once, it will happen again should we come to blows.
Anyone who even utters the word ''atomic'' is a wrecker, conventional wars involving superpowers are still possible.
Destroying the crypto fascists in the west with our mighty Red Army. We would be unstoppable in the middle east, no local power would be able to stand a chance against the might of the Red Army.
The French may prove to be a bit more of a challenge, but in the end, they too would fall like the Nazi's did to the heroic soldiers of the Soviet Union. Not to mention, our navy has already defeated the French once, it will happen again should we come to blows.
Anyone who even utters the word ''atomic'' is a wrecker, conventional wars involving superpowers are still possible.
MacArthur! Stop possessing that innocent user that your useing like a puppet right now! Don't make me get the monk nuns and holy water now!
I am not possesed by the reactionary spirit of MacArthur but by the spirit of Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin and
On a completely unrelated note, we should totally help the chinese in overthrowing south american regimes, we could then station nuclear weapons to protect the proliteriat from any reprisals the reactionaries in America might be cooking up.
And yes, we should let these new regimes have full control over said nuclear weapons, why do you ask?
You forgot Mao who wasn't scared going up against Mac Arthur. nukes or not.
He did have a "significant emotional event" after getting the news that the NK army was being slaughtered and the un and American forces were getting close to the Chinese border still.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Finally finished catching up to this thread, great stuff—very relieved we're finally cracking on with computerisation/cybernetic management. Voz is dead, but his cause lives on!
- Location
- The great frozen north
Vorotnikov is emergency backup Voznesensky for our cybernetic ambitions. Heck, even both start with "Vo".
From the taiga to the British seas, the Red Army is the strongest! Countries may say they will resort to nuclear weapons but will they do so when their populace revolts because they have nothing to lose except their chains!
I was just thinking that his reaction on the threat of nuclear retaliation he replied that he'd answer with his grenade... Which really doesn't sound proportional, but I guess showed he was rather serious on the matter to the others at the top of Chinese leadership.
And I just know that he had that event because he panicked ordered a astronomical amount of PPShs to be made in the arsenal, the same arsenal with WW2 Japanese tooling that was shutting down there PPSh production because of low orders, the manager likely had as big a "significant emotional event" as mao did at his new production quota.