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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Made some minor changes to the Swiftblade build:

Level 0 spell "Detect Magic" instead of "No Light".
Skills are now finished. Currently identical setup to PKRudeboy's build.
Took the "Able Learner" feat in place of "Mobility". Mobility can wait until level 3.


[x] Viserys Targaryen, Future Swiftblade

Name: Viserys Targaeryan
Alignment: Lawfully Neutral (80/50)
Race: Human
Level: 1 (0/1000 XP)
Class: Stalwart Sorcerer 1
Feats: Summon familiar; Draconic Heritage (Red); Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword); Weapon Focus (Greatsword); Dodge; Able Learner

STATS:
16 (+3) Charisma
14 (+2) Intelligence
14 (+2) Constitution
13 (+1) Dexterity
13 (+1) Strength
12 (+1) Wisdom

SAVES:
FORTITUDE: 0 + 2
REFLEX: 0 + 1
WILL: 2 + 1

Spells:
Level 0: Light, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Mending
Level 1: Disguise Self

Skills:
Bluff 4 +3 =7
Concentration 4+2 =6
Spellcraft 4+2=6
Sense Motive 2+1=3
Hide 2+1=3
Search 2+2=4
Spot 2+1=3
 
PKRudeboy said:
The way I see it right now, we could go the sellsword route, and go for Swiftblade and/or Battle Sorcerer, in which case we will be a highly focused killing machine, but not as good at magic, to the point where we won't get 9th level spells, and very few or no 8th depending on the specifics of the build.
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This is a terrible idea. Max your core competencies.
PKRudeboy said:
Or we could go a straight caster route, possibly with some PrC that hasn't been brought up yet.
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That is the only sensible choice for a sorcerer. get fullcasting PRCs
 
Also I noticed no one selected a familiar.

Granted you will not have one in the first update (it will find you) but I'd like to know which familiar you'd prefer.
 
[X] Hedge Magic Hero

Name: Viserys Targaeryan
Alignment: Neutral
Class: Sorcerer 1
Feats: Summon familiar; Draconic Heritage (Red); Hedge Magic (The Practical Enchanter), Shaping

STATS:
16 (+3) Charisma
14 (+2) Intelligence
14 (+2) Constitution
13 (+1) Dexterity
13 (+1) Strength
12 (+1) Wisdom

SAVES:
FORTITUDE: 0 + 2
REFLEX: 0 + 1
WILL: 2 + 1

Spells:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Mending, Acid Splash
Level 1: Charm Person, Disguise Self

Skills:
Bluff 4 +3 =7
Concentration 4+2 =6
Spellcraft 4+2=6
Sense Motive 2+1=3
Hide 2+1=3
Search 2+2=4
Spot 2+1=3


The Hedge Magic feat is explained here: Hedge Magic Heroes, Part VII. Basically? It gets you a whole bunch of non-combat spells to use and allows you to make "conjures", which are very bulky, fragile magical items that are non-combat luxuries. While the spells on the list aren't particualrly dangerous, they are tremendously versatile and should not be underestimated.

Shaping (Specialized for double effect - only effects a limited list of 0th level sorcerer spells / applies to all such spells, not simply prestidigitation) simply allows you to cast cantrips for free. Technically, it's a specialized version of another ability which allows you to cast prestidigitation constantly, but it's a specialization that the designer of the system uses for his pathfinder builds. Eclipse Pathfinder – An Arcane Rogue

So, what we end up with is a character who can consistently throw around quite a bit of minor but flexible magic. Even at first level, we'd always have spells to cast if we're clever in how we use them.

EDIT: Codex persona and practical enchanter are free on RPGdrivethru iirc.
 
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PKRudeboy said:
Part of it is experience with it. I've played one before, and it's one of my favorite PrC's. It was a higher level campaign, and I realized how much Abjurant Champion and magic items saved my ass, and we can't rely on that here.
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We won't have a full magical panoply, true. On the other hand, neither will the opposition! And unlike them we can make our own magical items.
PKRudeboy said:
Don't get me wrong, it's a completely awesome prestige class, but it's fairly specialized, especially as a sorcerer, and I'm not sure if that's a great idea for a solo campaign.
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Won't the Unseen Seer suffer from similar problems though? Solo is always harder, especially in an environment with no easily accessible scrolls or potions.

I'll be quite honest here, and tell you that I prefer the Swiftblade not for mechanical reasons, but because I think it will be more fun. With Unseen Seer I have a suspicion that we'll never ever get to wreck some stuff, because the players will unconsciously adopt a policy of avoiding each and every confrontation we can.

Which would admittedly be the most sensible thing to do in any scenario approaching realism. But it would also make for a dull campaign. And it's not like we can't sneak around and make use of magical trickery as a Swiftblade.
PKRudeboy said:
Able Learner is a great feat in general, but Swiftblade is going to need Power Attack, Improved Toughness, and probably Cleave, Great Cleave, and some item creation feats. I'm not sure it can afford it. Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack are also good picks.
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Why? As I said, I'm not going for a combat optimized build here. He'll be a whirlwind even without those feats / some of those feats.
PKRudeboy said:
And the Unseen seer caster level is completely solved with Practiced Spellcaster.
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Ah, yes, I see how that would work. Excellent. If I'm not mistaken that means your Unseen Seer is now basically a Sorcerer with some extra stuff, at the cost of a single feat?

I could certainly live with that. That being said, I still prefer the Swiftblade.
 
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CatScannerDarkly said:
[X] Hedge Magic Hero

Name: Viserys Targaeryan
Alignment: Neutral
Class: Sorcerer 1
Feats: Summon familiar; Draconic Heritage (Red); Hedge Magic (The Practical Enchanter), Shaping

STATS:
16 (+3) Charisma
14 (+2) Intelligence
14 (+2) Constitution
13 (+1) Dexterity
13 (+1) Strength
12 (+1) Wisdom

SAVES:
FORTITUDE: 0 + 2
REFLEX: 0 + 1
WILL: 2 + 1

Spells:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Mending, Acid Splash
Level 1: Charm Person, Disguise Self

Skills:
Bluff 4 +3 =7
Concentration 4+2 =6
Spellcraft 4+2=6
Sense Motive 2+1=3
Hide 2+1=3
Search 2+2=4
Spot 2+1=3


The Hedge Magic feat is explained here: Hedge Magic Heroes, Part VII. Basically? It gets you a whole bunch of non-combat spells to use and allows you to make "conjures", which are very bulky, fragile magical items that are non-combat luxuries. While the spells on the list aren't particualrly dangerous, they are tremendously versatile and should not be underestimated.

Shaping (Specialized for double effect - only effects a limited list of 0th level sorcerer spells / applies to all such spells, not simply prestidigitation) simply allows you to cast cantrips for free. Technically, it's a specialized version of another ability which allows you to cast prestidigitation constantly, but it's a specialization that the designer of the system uses for his pathfinder builds. Eclipse Pathfinder – An Arcane Rogue

So, what we end up with is a character who can consistently throw around quite a bit of minor but flexible magic. Even at first level, we'd always have spells to cast if we're clever in how we use them.

EDIT: Codex persona and practical enchanter are free on RPGdrivethru iirc.
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Too far from the core concept of the character. You guys voted for Sorcerer and it makes thematic sense because of the whole Dragon connection. It's a cool concept but it does not fit here, sorry.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Also I noticed no one selected a familiar.
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I really don't like the basic familiars. I prefer to either trade out the familiar for an ability, or get an improved familiar later on.
Since dismissing the familiar voluntarily hurts the same as having it die (can't get a new one for a year and a day, permanently lose XP and potentially levels) I don't think we should get a familiar at level 1.

Also, would you allow us to trade it out for abrupt jaunt?

Also, if you even do change your mind you can take the "familiar" feat later on. Say, at level 8, when you feel like having one.

Brain_Caster said:
Then I vote for not having a familiar until we get a pseudo dragon. Purely for storytelling reasons.
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Or an actual dragon, there are rules for that. The dragon eventually grows out of the familiar bond as it ages, which breaks the bond without harming either sorcerer or dragon (unlike normal dismissal). But generally speaking the time scale involved is huge
 
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Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems
Unseen Seer - Like Arcane Trickster, but with a different flavor. Don't bother, it does increase your CL for Divination, but dumps the rest by an equal amount. Plus, it requires a crapton of skills, requiring multiple levels of Rogue to qualify. Good for a rogue/sorcerer build, but not for a straight Sorcerer.
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Why are the only two builds for a really bad fullcasting PRC and an extremely awful gish?
I know I said a sorcerer should always PRC, but I also put the "for a fullcasting PRC" there. Those are actually worse than a base sorcerer.
Also, divination doesn't need its DC bumped up, but hurting the DC of everything else is bad.

At least go with a bread and butter archmage.
brb I am going to come up with some decent PRCs. (no, not OP PRCs, if we wanted to be OP we would go initiate of the sevenfold veil)
 
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mrttao said:
This is a terrible idea. Max your core competencies.

That is the only sensible choice for a sorcerer. get fullcasting PRCs
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mrttao said:
Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems

Why are the only two builds for a really bad fullcasting PRC and an extremely awful gish?
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Normally I would wholeheartedly agree. But I'm pretty sure the Swiftblade PRC changes the equation.

It's awful only in an optimized environment where everybody has access to the best PRCs. We're barred from that here. And keep in mind that this is a Quest, not a pen & paper campaign. Fluff is at least a important as mechanics, and I just love what the swiftblade has going there.
 
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Brain_Caster said:
Normally I would wholeheartedly agree. But I'm pretty sure the Swiftblade PRC changes the equation.

Also, keep in mind that this is a Quest, not a pen & paper campaign. Fluff is at least a important as mechanics, and I just love what the swiftblade has going there.
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In terms of fluff it is still a bad idea. Almost everyone in the world is a warrior, we are royalty, we are going to have a party with as many fighters as we want and ourselves as the only non fighter class with access to magic. It makes sense to max out our magic rather than sacrificing it in favor of being a little fighter too

also, considering the setting we absolutely should go with crafting
 
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DragonParadox said:
Also I noticed no one selected a familiar.

Granted you will not have one in the first update (it will find you) but I'd like to know which familiar you'd prefer.
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I'm thinking raven. flying and being able to speak make it the best option. Plus a shout out to Bloodraven.
Brain_Caster said:
Won't the Unseen Seer suffer from similar problems though? Solo is always harder, especially in an environment with no easily accessible scrolls or potions.
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It's a bit more of a generalist, and I want to focus on enchantment at first to get meat shields, or get money and hire some guards.
Brain_Caster said:
I'll be quite honest here, and tell you that I prefer the Swiftblade not for mechanical reasons, but because I think it will be more fun. With Unseen Seer I have a suspicion that we'll never ever get to wreck some stuff, because the players will unconsciously adopt a policy of avoiding each and every confrontation we can.

Which would admittedly be the most sensible thing to do in any scenario approaching realism. But it would also make for a dull campaign. And it's not like we can't sneak around and make use of magical trickery as a Swiftblade.
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I'm worried about the opposite, that we charge in somewhere and a big burly goon applies his mace directly to our face. I want to blow things up, just from a relatively safe distance behind a line of bodyguards.
Brain_Caster said:
Why? As I said, I'm not going for a combat optimized build here. He'll be a whirlwind even without those feats / some of those feats.
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Swiftblade is already fairly optimized for combat. Why give up caster levels if were not going to make melee count?
Brain_Caster said:
Ah, yes, I see how that would work. Excellent. If I'm not mistaken that means your Unseen Seer is now basically a Sorcerer with some extra stuff, at the cost of a single feat?

I could certainly live with that. That being said, I still prefer the Swiftblade.
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Feat and a single rogue level.
mrttao said:
Why are the only two builds for a really bad fullcasting PRC and an extremely awful gish?
I know I said a sorcerer should always PRC, but I also put the "for a fullcasting PRC" there. Those are actually worse than a base sorcerer.
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Practiced Spellcaster gets rid of the entire penalty, and it only needs a one level rogue dip.
mrttao said:
brb I am going to come up with some decent PRCs. (no, not OP PRCs, if we wanted to be OP we would go initiate of the sevenfold veil)
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If we wanted to be OP, we'd go Incantrix. I've looked throughout almost every book for PrC's, I could find very few that were both decent and matched the theme of the setting.
 
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mrttao said:
@DragonParadox do you allow
Abjurant Champion – Class – D&D Tools

It is a 5 level PrC which requires us to be level 10, spend 1 feat, gives full BAB and full casting, and gives some goodies to defensive spells.
Seems fairly balanced too and gives people that gish craving they seem to have
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No due to this:

DragonParadox said:
I just checked the fluff for abjurant champion and found this:

Only a select few organizations teach the skills of the abjurant champion: specific militant orders that have mastered magical techniques. Although some of these orders are secret, many are not, so you could easily have sought one out. Likely you already had some interest in augmenting your martial prowess with mystical arts, though it's possible you were simply a soldier looking for an edge on the battlefield.

I'm afraid that is going to be a prestige class I veto on the grounds that there is no one to teach you the techniques.
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You have instinctive knowledge of magic and have to make things up as you go along.
 
PKRudeboy said:
I'm worried about the opposite, that we charge in somewhere and a big burly goon applies his mace directly to our face. I want to blow things up, just from a relatively safe distance behind a line of bodyguards.
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I was thinking more along the lines of playing like an assassin. Spells like Greater Invisiblity would be a must of course. Combine that with the Swiftblade's insane mobility, and we should be able to get ourselves out of trouble fairly easily.
PKRudeboy said:
Feat and a single rogue level.
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Hm. Why would we need the Rogue level exactly?
 
Brain_Caster said:
I was thinking more along the lines of playing like an assassin. Spells like Greater Invisiblity would be a must of course. Combine that with the Swiftblade's insane mobility, and we should be able to get ourselves out of trouble fairly easily.

Hm. Why would we need the Rogue level exactly?
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I wonder what other build could be a good assassin?:p

We need the rogue level because able learner doesn't get rid of the cross class cap. 6th level entry vs 14th level entry.
 
mrttao said:
Alright. so it is a settings issue and not a balance one... actually how much cheese do you want us to aim for?
Very OP? slightly OP? mediocre?

also, would you allow ruuathar? it means elf friend, would the children of the forest count for that?
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As long as it makes thematic sense and fits in the setting anything short of arbitrary numbers of wishes.
 
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