PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
So Unseen Seer sounds the most likely. How about Daggerspell Mage, Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight? And Draconic Bloodline is also in @Brain_Caster's link under Bloodline feats.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
That bloodline looks very powerful... how are those paid off again? I do not play with them often.
PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
You can't learn spells with a certain descriptor at all. For someone like Viserys who has Red Dragon Heritage, either Cold or Water would probably make the most sense.
That seems unbalanced to me, the free spells are very powerful and versatile and I do not foresee a situation where you will desperately need Cold type spells.
So we are sticking with the Draconic Feats from Dragon Magic.
Last edited:
PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
You're expecting balance in 3.5?
It's kind of analogous to a specialist Wizard, except it also costs a feat and it picks what spells you get. But it's your quest, so if you don't want it, that's your choice.You're expecting balance in 3.5?
Not perfect balance of course. The PC warping reality to his will should be more powerful that the guy waving a sharpened piece of metal around.
I'll tell you what I'll make converting your Draconc Feats into that Bloodline possible if you complete a certain quest that has to do with the Dragon Lords of Valyria.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Interesting indeed. I just found something else that might be interesting in combination with this Swiftblade. The Battle Sorcerer.
Advantages:
- Improved Base Attack compared to sorcerer.
- Proficiency with light armor.
- Arcane spellcasting failure due to light armor neutralized.
(Crucially, this fullfills the Weapon Proficiency prerequistie for Swiftblade).
Last edited:
I would be willing to allow this. Are you willing to take fewer actual spells and thus less flexibility, especially out of combat?
PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
The spell tax on Battle Sorcerer hurts alot. If we were just going to go single class, it's pretty good, but if we're going to prestige it doesn't make as much sense, although not being able to take Abjurant Champion for the defensive spell bonuses does make it better. Stalwart Sorcerer doesn't give as many benefits, but the drawbacks are less, too. Although if we know how to use a sword as was said, we won't even need to use that to get the martial proficiency.
The way I see it right now, we could go the sellsword route, and go for Swiftblade and/or Battle Sorcerer, in which case we will be a highly focused killing machine, but not as good at magic, to the point where we won't get 9th level spells, and very few or no 8th depending on the specifics of the build. We could go a sneaky/social route with Unseen Seer, which would require a 1-2 level rogue dip, in which case we would put Varys to shame given our magical abilities, and we would give up very little of our magical potential and get a whole bunch of skills and some abilities in exchange. Or we could go a straight caster route, possibly with some PrC that hasn't been brought up yet.
No matter which we pick, we'll want to take leadership at 6th level if it's allowed, and possibly landlord at 9th. That means we need to be very careful about what feats we pick, because Sorcerer is one of the most feat starved classes.
The way I see it right now, we could go the sellsword route, and go for Swiftblade and/or Battle Sorcerer, in which case we will be a highly focused killing machine, but not as good at magic, to the point where we won't get 9th level spells, and very few or no 8th depending on the specifics of the build. We could go a sneaky/social route with Unseen Seer, which would require a 1-2 level rogue dip, in which case we would put Varys to shame given our magical abilities, and we would give up very little of our magical potential and get a whole bunch of skills and some abilities in exchange. Or we could go a straight caster route, possibly with some PrC that hasn't been brought up yet.
No matter which we pick, we'll want to take leadership at 6th level if it's allowed, and possibly landlord at 9th. That means we need to be very careful about what feats we pick, because Sorcerer is one of the most feat starved classes.
Last edited:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Do you have a link? I'd like to take a look at that one.
Quite frankly, no, I explicitly do not want to take those.
I do not want this Viserys to become a leader, ruler and/or politician. Someone who occassionally meddles, sure. But that's it. No holdings and bannermen for us - they would only slow us down.
Last edited:
PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
I can't find it online, but you get 1 less spell known at your highest spell level, to a minimum of 1 known. In exchange, you get 1 martial proficiency, weapon focus in that weapon, and 2 extra hp per sorcerer level.
But minions! You and I have different goals it seems, although I think we agree on staying the fuck away from the Iron Throne. Even so, minions don't have to tie us down, they could be a spy net or the crew of a ship or something. They don't need to be peasants and soldiers. And having a cohort who we know won't sell us out to the highest bidder is literally worth their weight in gold.
Last edited:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
What about base attack bonus? That part seems quite important, IMHO.
Stalwart Sorcerer or Battle Sorcerer, either one of them only makes sense as the base class for a gish build (probably with Swiftblade, because innervated speed is just too awesome to pass up), correct? That means we'll be relying on our physical attacks rather than our spells in order to deal damage - therefore it seems to me we'll need the highest base attack bonus we can get. The advantage is we can optimize our spell list for buffing and utility, which should somewhat mitigate the disadvantage of not knowing as many spells.
Do we really need cohorts for that? Can't we make friends without some feat to brainwash people into loyal followers via the power of game mechanics? Besides, please consider that followers are as much a responsibility as they are a resource. A spy net needs to be paid. A ship needs to be maintained. Etc, etc...
Let's just make Dany handle that kind of stuff, if she really wants to be a queen surrounded by adoring subjects.
Last edited:
PKRudeboy
Gentleman Snarker
If we only take the base class to level 6, the difference in base attack bonus is only +1. I don't think that's worth losing both a spell per day and a spell known for every level.
@DragonParadox, how is the magic item situation going to work? Now that I think about it, I doubt Westeros is going to be nearly as flush with magic items as a normal campaign, which hurts the Swiftblade. Without magic weapons, the damage cap is going to be way lower than normal.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
True. I was thinking we'd take the base class much higher in the long run, but there are probably some good alternatives. Any ideas?
In any case, we might be paying too much attention to the mechanics, and too little to style. Maybe we should ask ourselves the question what kind of build is going to be the most fun? And in that respect I must admit the Swiftblade seems very tempting. Nearly all the versatility and utility of an arcane D&D caster. But also, the ability to turn into a sorcerous blade-wielding speed demon, moving as a blur between enemies as their heads roll left and right and at higher levels the world stands still by comparison.
Bring it on, Bobby B!
(Assuming we survive long enough to reach the mid level range, that is.
)
Last edited:
Valyrian blades are +2 weapons, otherwise you have to go raiding ancient cursed tombs to find anything or just make it yourself.
So is anyone going to vote for feats?
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Truth be told, IMHO this way of character generation by committee probably won't work. For example after some thinking I've already been forced to wonder if our current stat allocation (which is perfectly fine for a standard sorcerer) is perhaps not so suitable for a gish build with Swiftblade. And I can't really vote for the feats I want (Dodge and Mobility for the Swiftblade) before I know if the other players will support going for a swiftblade gish.
I think it might be a better idea for us players to post fully generated character builds and then vote on those. Give me an hour or so, and I'll try to come up with something.
Last edited:
That is fine, plans are acceptable. Truth be told they would be preferable so I can get to writing the first real post.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
A question for @PKRudeboy and anybody else with a good understanding of 3.5. If we go for Swiftblade, might it make sense to make DEX our primary stat instead of Charisma? After all we'll be doing quite a bit of fighting and weapon finesse is definitely a must have, meaning DEX will improve both our offense and defense. Charisma would get us a few bonus spells per day (not many, AFAIK) and higher spell DCs... but are such DCs actually important when we'll be mostly casting buffs / utility spells and losing 4 caster levels anyway?
INT perhaps isn't important enough to be worth 14 points - unlike the sorcerer who gets 2 + Int bonus, the Swiftblade gets 4 + Int bonus skill points per level.
INT perhaps isn't important enough to be worth 14 points - unlike the sorcerer who gets 2 + Int bonus, the Swiftblade gets 4 + Int bonus skill points per level.
Last edited:
Int is skills and thus flexibility in all sorts of situations.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
True. I've noticed that while trying to work out a feat progression for us.
We'll need Dodge and Mobility for Swiftblade - so that's the two starter feats gone. We'll probably also want Item Creation feats - magic items are probably quite rare on Planetos, and we'll probably have to make some ourselves if we want really good equipment. And I think optimal combat power for our swiftblade would be achieved with high dexterity, Weapon Finesse, 2 shortswords and the 3 feats for two weapon fighting?
Alternatively, I suppose we could accept that that's not gonna happen and go with a greatsword instead. That would save us the feats for two weapon fighting. Downside would be that we can't use Dex as our offensive stat.
Ughh. I'm probably overthinking this. So what is the build isn't optimal as long as it's fun to play? Greatsword it is, on account on that letting us have more "disposable" feats, which means more opportunities to do interesting stuff later on.
[x] Viserys Targaryen, BC-version1.0
Name: Viserys Targaeryan
Alignment: Lawfully Neutral (80/50)
Race: Human
Level: 1 (0/1000 XP)
Class: Stalwart Sorcerer 1
Feats: Summon familiar; Draconic Heritage (Red); Weapon Proficiency (Greatsword); Weapon Focus (Greatsword); Dodge; Able Learner
STATS:
16 (+3) Charisma
14 (+2) Intelligence
14 (+2) Constitution
13 (+1) Dexterity
13 (+1) Strength
12 (+1) Wisdom
SAVES:
FORTITUDE: 0 + 2
REFLEX: 0 + 1
WILL: 2 + 1
Spells:
Level 0: Light, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Mending
Level 1: Disguise Self
Skills:
Bluff 4 +3 =7
Concentration 4+2 =6
Spellcraft 4+2=6
Sense Motive 2+1=3
Hide 2+1=3
Search 2+2=4
Spot 2+1=3
Last edited:
Omake: A Loosing and a Binding
A Loosing and a Binding
Myrcella Baratheon, second-born child and only daughter of Robert Baratheon First of His Name, was not having a good day. Truth be told she was having one of the worst days of her short life. It had all started when her elder brother had been hurting little Tommen under the pretense of toughening him up "so he would not be such a crybaby." Angrily, the princess had decided to give Joff a taste of his own medicine and slapped him as hard as she could, hard enough to cause the surprised boy to fall down in front of some of his friends as well as Lord Rosby. Her mother had been furious, taking Joff's side like always. The old Septa had been more tedious than usual in her lessons (an impressive achievement), and Joff had looked at her with such hatred in her eyes that it sent a chill down the princess' spine.
Frustrated, out of sorts, and unwilling to suffer even more whispering idiots gawking at her as if she were an attraction in an Essosi traveling carnival, Myrcella had traveled through some of the less inhabited corners of the Red Keep in search of solitude. There she found hidden behind a tapestry a passageway of the kind stories told riddled the keep owing to the paranoia of Maegor the Cruel. Perhaps this was even one of the passages lost to history owing to the fact that the same paranoia had led Maegor to slay the builders of the Keep.
The girl reasoned that if she were to "get lost" for a bit her mother would be too preoccupied with the fact that she had been found again to scold her for hitting Joff and damaging his non-existent dignity. As it so happened she got lost a bit too well, pretense turning deadly earnest in the lightless corridors. This led her to her current predicament turned around, her left hand bleeding from a cut on a sharp stone. She was blindly following the ancient stone wall in the hope that it would eventually lead her out somewhere.
By some whim of fate her hand touched a faded carving of a dragon's eye once adorned with the flowing script of old Valyria, and her blood was accepted as sacrifice by the centuries-old enchantment that had lain dormant for many a long year. The stone of the passage drew back like a curtain (much more smoothly than when it was first made for the tides of magic were waxing).
After the pitch blackness of the tunnel, the faint greenish glow emanating from the chamber dazzled Myrcella. Desperate for a way out not to mention light of any sort she entered the ancient chamber. It was circular and seemingly carved into the stone under Aegon's Hill. Within lay dusty heavy jewelry adorned with rubies the color of old blood, ancient weapons that looked foreign to the princess' eyes. But the most odd thing by far was the source of the light. On a slender obsidian plinth in the center of the room rested a dark crystal sphere at the heart of which a spectral green flame shone.
In the ordinary run of things Myrcella was a practical child who had less time than usual for tales of sorcery and heroism in ages past, but when confronted with actual magic she could not help but be intrigued. As she neared the sphere to get a closer look a whispering started in the back of her mind first in tongues she could not understand (indeed they did not seem to be sounds men could make at all) but then at last shifting into Common:
"Child born of Sin, will you not aid me? I can make you great. Knowledge beyond the ken of humankind and dominion beyond the power of Kings shall be yours if you but free me."
Perhaps it was bravery she never before knew she possessed or merely greater fear of the dark twisting corridor outside that compelled the princess to answer: "What need have I of these things? I am a Princess of the Blood. In time I will have the best of lives without any help of yours," she spoke, imitating her mother's voice at her haughtiest.
"Royal blood, yes, the same twice over just as my jailers of old," the voice answered with a laugh like the crackle of flames. "See the truth of your birthright, girl, if you dare."
The Green light filled Myrcella's sight, and then her mind. She saw before her eyes a vision of her mother the Queen and her uncle the Kingslayer embracing not as siblings might but as man and woman. Understanding dawned upon her, and her horror broke the hold of the illusion. She wanted more than anything else to call the fire-thing a liar, but her own treacherous memories would not let her. So many things made sense now, including one faint recollection from when she had been a little girl and had seen her uncle "help her mother dress." No, not my uncle. My father likely as not, and even if that is not so the king's dignity could not bear that stain. At best the Silent Sisters if the secret were found out, a life of oppressive silence and judging eyes, she thought despairingly. At worst... Myrcella could easily imagine what a man like father... the King might do to her in a rage.
"Dominion beyond the power of Kings..." she whispered to herself. "Why should I trust you?"
"Do you have a choice? Can your gaggle of Seven Gods defend you from what is to come? Would they even do so for one such as you? Such a waste of a brave and clever life it would be," the voice continued like sweet poison in her ear.
"What must I do?" the girl asked with far more courage than she felt.
"Place your left hand upon the orb and speak my name, Loptr, then name to conditions of our pact." Now the voice was filled with an inhuman longing.
Jumping to touch the magical orb, Myrcella placed her hand upon it and said swiftly, "Loptr, freedom I offer for the power to defend myself from my enemies present and future."
The room rang like some titanic bell had been struck with the Smith's own hammer, and the girl felt pain such as could not be described in the tongues of men.
What seemed like an eternity later she lay gasping on the hard stone floor, her mind filled with eldritch lore. She knew as surely as she knew that night followed day that what she had been gifted was only the barest beginning of the power she could attain. So with a smile that seemed to belong on a much older face Myrcella Waters made her way out of the room, the darkness holding no more terrors to her.
Last edited:
Not really a fan of gish variants, but eh, it's been way too long since I played D&D, so I couldn't come up with anything approaching an optimal build anyway. Good enough for Viserys.
[x] Viserys Targaryen, BC-version1.0
[x] Viserys Targaryen, BC-version1.0
Just noticed something
@Brain_Caster the thirteen year old can't use a greatsword. He just can't by simple common sense.
@Brain_Caster the thirteen year old can't use a greatsword. He just can't by simple common sense.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Wait, why not? I mean, if he hasn't been trained in it he'll suck at it, sure, but Greatswords don't actually weigh that much.
But if he was trained (not sure if he was) then a greatsword is not *actually* that heavy.
It's one area where GRRM dropped the ball with his research in book 1 (the 'You can't even lift a sword, Arya' thing, when even the heaviest sword weighs just 5 pounds.)