would be permanent, ie, dispellable.
DP has said that a wish, can make someone Polymorphed into a dragon by Polymorph any Object, into a true dragon with no dispelling possible.

There's also the Reincarnate and direct the reincarnation into being a dragon with a wish plan, but that cost you a level, Polymorph any Object and wishing it permanent don't.
 
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But you're not wrong that we'll essentially always have an endless number of equipment that need to be manufactured and not enough people to manufacture them, at least until we figure out more artificial means to expand our throughput, or begin outsourcing more of them.
We've got Lya and Naria spending time this month poking at figuring out how to get more Dedicated Wrights for Lya and how to give Dedicated Wrights to the other crafters. Fingers crossed.
 
DP has said that a wish, can make someone Polymorphed into a dragon by Polymorph any Object, into a true dragon with no dispelling possible.

There's also the Reincarnate and direct the reincarnation into being a dragon with a wish plan, but that cost you a level, Polymorph any Object and wishing it permanent don't.
Honestly, that might work because DP okayed it, but I don't like it. It cheapens the whole 'become a dragon' quest.
 
Frankly, even without my personal distaste for the idea, which is enormous, I can think of vastly better uses for a Wish then letting some random person become a Dragon.
 
Honestly, that might work because DP okayed it, but I don't like it. It cheapens the whole 'become a dragon' quest.
I did note it's an unpopular idea, it makes perfect sense and all, but people don't like it because they think it cheapen our PRC.

Dragons for all their power are a mortal specie, there's no reason they don't have any metaphysical requirements for you being one, there's no limit to how many there can be, they don't have alignment requirements, all in all there's no reason becoming a Dragon should be that hard.
Frankly, even without my personal distaste for the idea, which is enormous, I can think of vastly better uses for a Wish then letting some random person become a Dragon.
Yeah but this would be Zherys wish, in the end it's up to him how he spend his assets, what I would do was just tell him about the potential way to become a Dragon.
 
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Dragons for all their power are a mortal specie, there's no reason they don't have any metaphysical requirements for you being one, there's no limit to how many there can be, they don't have alignment requirements, all in all there's no reason becoming a Dragon should be that hard.
In a lot of prime's they are (one of) the first race(s), and they are most of the time an ensouled embodiment of magic and elements. That's a little different from standard races.
 
I did note it's an unpopular idea, it makes perfect sense and all, but people don't like it because they think it cheapen our PRC.

Dragons for all their power are a mortal specie, there's no reason they don't have any metaphysical requirements for you being one, there's no limit to how many there can be, they don't have alignment requirements, all in all there's no reason becoming a Dragon should be that hard.

Yeah but this would be Zherys wish, in the end it's up to him how he spend his assets, what I would do was just tell him about the potential way to become a Dragon.
Other races are Humanoids.
Dragons are Dragons.
They are fundamentally separate from everything else.
 
That's similar, but a lot stronger.
These Guardian Dragons are made from ancient Wyrms as base after all, while the creatures I mean can be summoned at spell level 7 or 8.
@MTB You were right, Twilight Guardians are actually the remains of Dragons that became one with the Land in their old age.
However they are also nearly mindless remants with measly 8HD.

A Ghostly Dragon of any Wyrm would be infinitly more powerful.
 
"I wish to be a dragon"

"GRANTED! Mortal! You are now a [White] Dragon!"

"Awesom- wait. What, WHITE!? I'M A FUCKING WHITE!?"

"Law of 'Asking too much from a wish', mortal. You are indeed a true dragon. However you are a white one"

[Vader style]: "Nooooooo!"

Moral: Always be you self, unless you can be a dragon, then be a dragon. Unless it's white. Never be a white dragon.

Are you thinking of going white dragon? Not even once.


Brought to you by the SoKWDD (Society of Keeping White Dragons Down). "Because you know you're better than a white dragon"
 
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You were right, Twilight Guardians are actually the remains of Dragons that became one with the Land in their old age.
However they are also nearly mindless remants with measly 8HD.

Feels like we can recreate this result by burying valyrian dragons in Positive nexus. Like say Glyra's ritual hill outside Mantarys. :whistle:

The Archons cant complain if it aint necromancy.
 
Dragons for all their power are a mortal specie, there's no reason they don't have any metaphysical requirements for you being one, there's no limit to how many there can be, they don't have alignment requirements, all in all there's no reason becoming a Dragon should be that hard.

That's...really arguable. Dragons as a species are one with magic woven through their very souls. The potential for the magic they wield can be carried down a bloodline, but it's really not that simple. Everything that DP has shown us in his writing of their lore supports this. They ruled Planetos for ages uncounted until suffering the same fate as the Illithid, yet are still listed in the same breath of fears. They dream the dragon dreams, they have deities that are patron to them and they alone above all else. Their mortality is measured in a span beyond the ability of even elvenkind to really understand. The knowledge and power of their greatest wyrms can challenge gods, and all it takes for them to reach those heights is age. Not work, not success beyond simply continuing to live. Just age.

And no species in existence has a true alignment restriction - it's been well documented within certain modules that even Outsiders can change their alignments. Pathfinder features a CG Succubus for goodness sake, and it doesn't stop there. The restrictions of a plane of existence being the primary energy of your being are hard to escape, but that doesn't make those bonds unbreakable. Outsiders can cast aside the limits of their creation and some do. At the same time, arguing that becoming a member of a species that can challenge gods simply through surviving long enough is very, very different from becoming almost anything else. Outsiders don't grow without challenge, same as humanoid mortals. Almost nothing but Dragons do.

To reach the same heights of power as a Great Wyrm, a mortal has to face challenges and tests that would break the sanity of most. They have to bleed and burn and fight for every scrap of power, that a Dragon's soul grants as simply as breathing. Arguing that they're so similar isn't just a misrepresentation of the facts. It's wrong.

Becoming a Dragon should, in my opinion, be far harder than PAO + Wish. Because there are metaphysical requirements. Shapechange or Polymorph allow you to access the power of another race for a limited time. It does this by granting you another form and filling your soul with all the power of a spell that despite all appearances really isn't just 9th level. And that can only sustain an effect for a few hours. Making it permanent? That's ritual magic requiring considerable power, because it's so much easier to break the connection of an Outsider than it is to build one from a mortal soul to the dragon dreams. Or it damn well should be.
 
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That's...really arguable. Dragons as a species are one with magic woven through their very souls. The potential for the magic they wield can be carried down a bloodline, but it's really not that simple. Everything that DP has shown us in his writing of their lore supports this. They ruled Planetos for ages uncounted until suffering the same fate as the Illithid, yet are still listed in the same breath of fears. They dream the dragon dreams, they have deities that are patron to them and they alone above all else. Their mortality is measured in a span beyond the ability of even elvenkind to really understand. The knowledge and power of their greatest wyrms can challenge gods, and all it takes for them to reach those heights is age. Not work, not success beyond simply continuing to live. Just age.

And no species in existence has a true alignment restriction - it's been well documented within certain modules that even Outsiders can change their alignments. Pathfinder features a CG Succubus for goodness sake, and it doesn't stop there. The restrictions of a plane of existence being the primary energy of your being are hard to escape, but that doesn't make those bonds unbreakable. Outsiders can cast aside the limits of their creation and some do. At the same time, arguing that becoming a member of a species that can challenge gods simply through surviving long enough is very, very different from becoming almost anything else. Outsiders don't grow without challenge, same as humanoid mortals. Almost nothing but Dragons do.

To reach the same heights of power as a Great Wyrm, a mortal has to face challenges and tests that would break the sanity of most. They have to bleed and burn and fight for every scrap of power, that a Dragon's soul grants as simply as breathing. Arguing that they're so similar isn't just a misrepresentation of the facts. It's wrong.

Become a Dragon should, in my opinion, be far harder than PAO + Wish. Because there are metaphysical requirements. Shapechange or Polymorph allow you to access the power of another race for a limited time. It does this by granting you another form and filling your soul with all the power of a spell that despite all appearances really isn't just 9th level. And that can only sustain an effect for a few hours. Making it permanent? That's ritual magic requiring considerable power, because it's so much easier to break the connection of an Outsider than it is to build one from a mortal soul to the Dragon Dreams. Or it damn well should be.

Bravo... this is very well presented. The PMaO ruling was from almost the beginning of the quest before a lot of the lore was set down. Thinking back now with everything I wrote on the matter (and considering nothing in that direction was done IC) I would like to reverse it.That said you can still reincarnate Targaryen (and only Targaryens) into dragons.
 
Part MMCLXXIX: Elephant's Folly
Elephant's Folly

Fourth Day of the Fourth Month 293 AC

"I have made a similar offer of land to those joining my Legions and I will not see these men cheated out of their due, even though they are not legionnaires yet," you reply, the implications clear enough that even a far less subtle man than Zherys could read them clear as day. These men will be loyal to you one day... loyal enough at least that they would not lightly consider rebellion. "They will be recompensed with land and can state their preferences from among the places being settled at the time like my own soldiers."

"Excellent," Zherys nods, his posture only now relaxing ever so slightly. "We should then speak of the fools against which the armies are soon to be..." He trails off, intrigued and cautious in equal measure when he sees you obviously wishing to speak.

"Such a momentous agreement between Valyria's children should be sealed by something more than words," you begin, drawing forth a Valyrian dragon's egg colored black and gold from your pouch. You had briefly considered offering the one given to you in Braavos for the irony, but the jest might be taken badly by both parties, not to mention that you would rather hand Zherys a living egg than teach him how to awaken those fallen to stony silence. No doubt Volantis holds many more given how enamored they ever were with Valyria's legacy, and given the High Speaker's character and skills you greatly suspect that most if not all those eggs have made it into his hands or at least those of trusted subordinates.

The sorcerer gingerly touches the egg, no doubt feeling the same pleasant steady heat from within you do. "I am honored to receive such a gift Excellence." He speaks quietly, almost reverently. His gaze does not long linger on the egg though, the spark of wonder swiftly locked away behind the bastion of calculating will. "How was it awoken?" he asks after a moment.

What do you answer?

[] The truth, either the Tragedy at Summerhall or devil's magic woke the egg

[] Explain that slumbering dragons shift to stone and any magic that can return cursed stone to previous life can also breathe life into the unborn
-[] Offer one of the still slumbering egg (write in which)

[] Write in


***​

The five of you then settle to plot and scheme, the matter of Volantis' treacherous magisters turned and twisted from every perspective. Thankfully, Teana's words aside, Zherys was not without cause in thinking he could put an end to his foes with only the resources of the Mysterium to call on. For one he had arranged to have a cursed ring fall into the possession of the head of the conspiracy. The ring is set not with any common stone, but a single bloody human eye, the sickening fruit of Valyrian flesh-crafting. Supposedly it allows its bearer to react swifter to peril, but it also has a second hidden power, allowing Zherys, who holds the other eye, to scry his foe without flaw or chance of failure.

"Of course Qhaedar would not question his 'good fortune'," Teana snorts upon hearing the tale. "He is, after all, the luckiest man in the City." Seeing you and Malarys turn curious looks to her she explains. "Alios Qhaedar is deeply invested in the slave trade, though not for anything as pedestrian as money. Has supposedly beds more slave girls in a week than others do in a year, and he uses them just as readily to show his favor or court some support from others."

"Indeed," Zherys agrees dryly. "I suspect a succubus of some sort was the first to sink her hooks into him. Perhaps one fleeing Mantarys. Whatever the case, Alios is sadly not without his own base charm and of course vast wealth by which he has made inroads into the Elephants' midst at the behest of the dark powers he serves. There are already quasits..." he pauses and gives you a quizzical look at the look of rage that likely crossed your features.

"The craven little pitspawn have caused me far more trouble than any of their greater brethren from the fact that they are inclined to flee, often with whatever valuables are at hand, rather than stand and die," you explain.

"As demon troubles go that is by far the lightest I have ever heard," the High Speaker notes, lips twitching momentarily upwards in a sardonic smile. "As I was saying, there have been minor rituals to call quasits, but so far nothing larger and more impressive has been seen within the walls of the city. However reports of dead and missing slaves from the conspirators' households as well as divinations match somewhat more potent rituals, generally warding, so far but also fiends called to guard the fools' manses that they may plot in 'peace'"

Maelor laughs. "If it's peace they're looking for mayhap they should have searched higher for a patron."

Zherys glances at him approvingly for the first time, but also counters: "True. However, the head of an angel makes poor proof of treachery." His face darkens as he turns back to you. "Unfortunately the current Archon is currently out of the city inspecting the Banners of Renown..."

"Don't you mean fortunately?" Maelor interjects again. "Be right easy to kill for you."

"Too easy, my young friend," comes the rueful reply. "If the Archon should perish in any way during the inspection the freemen will be blamed and so will I. The citizens will take to the streets just as the conspirators launch their attack. Quelling that with with an army of freed slaves is likely to leave most of the Old Blood of Volantis flowing in the gutters."

"So what is your plan, then?" Malarys asks carefully. So far he seemed to have been reasonably impressed by Zherys compared to his peers among other free cities, but it is clear he is still withholding final judgement.

"The Archon is to announce his decision on how the men are to be rewarded. That decision will of course be a death sentence. However, it is to be delivered before a sizable contingent of high ranking officers and their bodyguards, one which will be allowed into the inner city for the 'ceremony'. No doubt the conspirators hope to use demons to slay them quickly or perhaps they have some way for the Archon to flee, but I will be present in disguise to counter either and after which the gates can be sized from the inside allowing the Banners to flood in as liberators from the no doubt rampaging demons."

What do you reply?

[] Offer to help cut a deal with Flame Keeper Benerro that you may use the Fiery Hand to quell unrest
-[] Write in

[] Suggest that you simply kill all the fiends and conjurors and keep a few gruesome mementos to show off after the fact
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: Don't worry, Zherys does not have a color preference. If you suggest another dragon egg he will gladly take it.
 
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*Imagines Zherys acting on some players' fears and grafting some pink dragon scales and wings onto himself*

LMAO
Frankly that fear is ridiculous. Zherys would never harm such a quintessentially Valyrian status symbol.

Anyway, let's take another look at our options:

Accumulated Valyrian Dragon Eggs:
1. Pink as the first hints of dawn's light -- retrieved from the devils -- alive
2. Black with specs of gold -- retrieved from the devils -- alive
3. Pale almost ghostly silver -- retrieved from the devils -- alive
4. Pale almost ghostly silver -- retrieved from the devils -- alive
5. Blue as the summer sky -- taken from Daena the Defiant's hidden cache -- petrified
6. Midnight black with sparks of amber -- taken from Daena the Defiant's hidden cache -- petrified
7. Jade green -- gifted by the Sealord as a symbol of Braavos' friendship and its future allegiance -- alive

I'm thinking giving Zherys egg number two, Having Dany take egg number five, and giving Malarys egg number seven. I don't want to give Zherys the door through which he can do mass-hatchings of all the petrified dragon eggs Volantis has no doubt accumulated.
 
Tell him that He'll be given the secret in time. After all, their alliance is new and we need time to get used to each other.

He got a living dragon egg. He can chill with that for the time being.
 
There are already quasits..." he pauses and gives you a quizzical look at the look of rage that likely crossed your features.

"The craven little pitspawn have caused me far more trouble than their grater brethren from the fact that they are inclined to flee, often with whatever valuables are to hand, rather than stand and die," you explain.

Priceless. Epic bluff scores and we can't control our urges to burn everything when someone mentions a quasit
 
How about telling him "Death is no true obstacle to a determined mage, and true life is not beyond my reach either"?
Or something similar. Imply we Raised the egg.
 
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