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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
Brother Lucan: Speaking with the voice of the Father himself, Lucan is for many of the Septons present a man of paradoxes, gathering mages to train yet preaching against magic. Lucan's sheer presence and obvious blessings are nonetheless all but certain to gather support at the Conclave and perhaps most worryingly for the rest of the participants on the streets of Oldtown.
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Want to challenge directly.
Want to set angels on fire before the entire conclave...

Must sleep now, maybe set profile pic to burning sept tomorrow...

G'night.
 
Will we allow the doctrine of Exceptionalism for the fey? Do we have issues with fey marriage with humans?

Edit: Nevermind we want them disagreeing on everything.
 
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Speaking of turning angels...
Did we send off Yrael to save that one preacher who was captured in Westeros?

Can't check from phone :'(
 
I really hate what religion does to this community.

I actually think it would have been better to just bin the whole "divine magic" thing from the get go.
 
DragonParadox said:
That would have left me without a lot of interesting storytelling tools. I think the quest would have suffered for it.
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I honestly can't say if it was worth it or not.

@egoo it involved religion, so it devolved into a snit as to whether or not sending Danny or Yrael was a waste of time.

A bunch of yelling happened, and no decision was reached.
 
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Snowfire said:
Because we don't want Viserys' name stamped all over this. Which it will be, because none of us believe that the Lantern Bearers can handle this on their own. Taking a persona means that we can actually help them.
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Except the only one that will know is that one lantern bearer, and he has way more sense than trying to fuck us over for politics he likely doesn't give two shits about, given his profession.
 
zxzx24 said:
I honestly can't say if it was worth it or not.
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I'd say it was.

Honestly, do you really think the thread wouldn't have found something just as horrific to tear itself apart at for proMise of profits?
:V
*cough* Rakshasa soul-flaying techniques *cough*, *cough* Valyrian lore, rituals and fleshforging *cough*, *cough* devils *cough*
 
DragonParadox said:
OK so after a PM conversation with @Azel I realized that this entire arc is not as engaging as I would have wanted it to be. I wanted this to be world-building to make the rest of the world feel as alive as say SD, to show the factions moving around you, but all I managed to do is give you more molehills to stomp so the narrative drags (as seen by the relatively low engagement in the planning). I think I know how to streamline this now.

I will endeavor to avoid filler from now, but I also have a request for you guys in general. When the narrative feels like it's dragging please tell me.
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Ok @DragonParadox I will stop you right there, because this is incredibly interesting.

I want to unravel what's been going on here, as learning what's actually going on is interesting in and of itself.

Because Tiamat demons desecrating the Smith's Temple without anyone noticing, progressively making people worship Her Saltyness?

While somehow living literally next door of some aberration body-snatcher and his thralls?

The set-up alone is gold.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Brother Lucan: Speaking with the voice of the Father himself, Lucan is for many of the Septons present a man of paradoxes, gathering mages to train yet preaching against magic. Lucan's sheer presence and obvious blessings are nonetheless all but certain to gather support at the Conclave and perhaps most worryingly for the rest of the participants on the streets of Oldtown.
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TARGET ACQUIRED.

Seriously though, can we kill him? Please? He's right there for Christ's sake.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Except the only one that will know is that one lantern bearer, and he has way more sense than trying to fuck us over for politics he likely doesn't give two shits about, given his profession.
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"Who was responsible for the magic that allowed you to bring down the spawns of Tiamat"

Asked under interrogation conditions.

Because really, if you think someone won't ask that question, you're missing a trick.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Politics of the Faith and the Conclave of Oldtown​

Fundamental Divisions: The Faith of the Seven is broadly divined into four formal tiers of authority, only three of which have actual theological weight. At the very bottom of the pyramid are the simple Septons, humble shepherds of their flock whose principal task is igniting and maintaining the flame of Faith. This can range from a Begging Brother to a Septon with a high position in the court of a lord or king. Septon Barth himself who was hand of the King for Jaehaerys the Conciliator and one of the most influential legal and administrative minds in the history of an united Westeros was a 'simple Septon'. The other steps in the ladder are the Most Devout, a body originally stemming from the Seven Hills of Andalos and the Seven disciples of Hugor later expanded to forty-nine, and finally the High Septon or Septa who surrenders even her given name to the calling and the grace of the Seven the better to hear their words.

Elders, the Silent Power: As the Faith became more formal and bound up in the institutions of Westerosi lordship, however, it became clear that there had to exist ranks of Godsworn holding sway over their brethren and the assets of the faith in a particular region without having their time dedicated to solemn contemplation. If the King of the Vale was battling the King of the Riverlands it would be awkward for both of them to be directly under the same religious authority, much less one in far-off Oldtown. This is how the institution of Elder came to be. Technically holding no special virtue beyond the wisdom of age, Elders are selected by vote (or more often by acclamation) from the prominent Godsworn of a particular region. The Elder of the Vale is addressed by the same title as say that of the Fingers, but the latter answers to the former nonetheless. Generally speaking divisions of authority follow those of temporal power, though in more volatile regions like the Riverlands mismatches are more common and often cause for tensions. Famously the lands of the Brackens and Blackwoods fall under the same 'count level' Elder, as the High Septon who ruled seven-hundred years ago ruled that they would not need more seeing as the Blackwoods are heathens.

The Most Devout: The forty-nine men and woman known as the Most Devout are chosen by the High Septon, or according to accepted canon, by the voice of the Seven-Who-Are-One whispering in his ear. Traditionally they are proposed by the most influential Elders, but particularly inspired High Septons can and have filled the positions as the Seven guided them, or in a less charitable interpretation as they wished to favor those close to them. The Most Devout are also the ones who elect the new High Septon often from among themselves. This vote must be unanimous in the end, though in practice it is a matter of the candidate with the fewest votes falling off until only one is left who is then unanimously acclaimed.

Most Devout by Region:
  1. Westerlands 11
  2. Reach: 9
  3. Vale: 8
  4. Stormlands 6
  5. Riverlands 6
  6. Crownlands 5
  7. Dorne: 3
  8. North 1
  9. Iron Islands 0
Septries and Contemplative Orders: Not all who are called to the Seven are meant to speak their glory and mercy to the world. Some indeed are expected to turn inwards to solemn contemplation. Many of these souls are the ones who have committed some grave sin or suffered some deep sorrow, but the Contemplative Orders will accept anyone whose heart is so inclined. Indeed many poor smallfolk turn the orders when they are left without means of support by some misfortune. Before the reign of King Maegor, the Holy Brothers and Sisters held vast tracks of land to rival many lesser lords, but following the dismantling of the Faith Militant (which was the military might by which those lands was kept from neighboring lords) the confiscation and redistribution of these lands was almost an administrative formality. The Elders of Contemplative Orders thus have far less of a say in matters of the faith than they once would have had.

Silent Sisters: Technically a Contemplative Order, for all their interact with the secular world more than most, the Silent Sisters are a exception in many regards. Dealing as they do with the work of the Stranger, veiled against the eyes of the world just as their lips are sealed in matters of the living the Silent Sisters have no voice in matters of the Faith.

The Conclave of Oldtown:

Precedent and Purpose: Conclaves are gatherings of Elders called in time of great strife and change to decide upon matters of doctrine. The last Conclave called was the one in 50 AC which supported the Doctrine of Exceptionalism, the notion that House Targaryen are not be bound by the Seven's ban against incest.

Right to Speak: Technically even a ordinary Septon or Septa can speak in Conclave since an Elder is an administrative rank, but they must be recognized by no less then three Elders 'so as not to unduly delay the proceedings'.

Organization and Controversy: They are ordinarily called by the High Septon. However Septon Kyle, the Most Devout who serves in the Starry Sept, and former Elder of the Reach has presented the notion that it any 'sufficiently learned and pious Septon can act when the High Septon is otherwise occupied.' As Elders from the Reach, the Vale, and the Crownlands have decided to attend together with many of the Most Devout the more skeptical Westerlanders and Stormlanders have reluctantly decided to attend also. The Northerners kept their own council, some say because of the ancient enmity between House Manderly and House Tyrell, while only a smartening of Riverlanders chose to attend. The High Septon has so far not formally acknowledged the gathering's legitimacy, though neither had he stopped the Most Devout and Elders loyal to him from attending

The Actors and Their Positions:

Most Devout Septon Kyle (Tyrell loyalist): Wishes to make trading and alliances with the Fey theologically acceptable, some suspect he will go so far as to push for marriage with the Fey to be acceptable, likely to use exceptionalism as a starting point for his arguments.

Most Devout Ollidor (Traditionalist/Lannister loyalist): One of the few Most Devout of dubious piety the current High Septon has not been able to deal with because of his ties to the Lannisters and thus the Crown, he is for all intents and purposes the voice of Tywin Lannister at the Conclave.

Most Devout Septa Aglantine (High Septon's Loyalist): A stern and pious woman Aglantine is nonetheless known for championing the cause of the poor and dispossessed and a reluctant admirer of Danelle called by some the Maiden's Chosen for her good works, if not her choice in companions.

Elder Septa Maer (Elder of the Riverlands): Known for her unflinching piety and disdain for magic, Maer was once made common cause with her brothers and sisters in the Vale, though the constant uncheked compromises with magic by the Hand have left her ever more bitter and isolated. Many see her presence here as mere 'heckling,' though wiser heads conclude that should the supporters of reform push too hard her fiery rhetoric is likely to gain her a great deal of support.

Brother Lucan: Speaking with the voice of the Father himself, Lucan is for many of the Septons present a man of paradoxes, gathering mages to train yet preaching against magic. Lucan's sheer presence and obvious blessings are nonetheless all but certain to gather support at the Conclave and perhaps most worryingly for the rest of the participants on the streets of Oldtown.

OOC: As I was writing this I realized just how little here is either in this quest or in canon about the organization of the faith. I really should have presented the first part of this update a long time ago.
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Damn, DP, that was a very nicely done infodump, so much so that it didn't feel like an infodump at all. Interesting, too.

Are you a teacher?
 
Snowfire said:
"Who was responsible for the magic that allowed you to bring down the spawns of Tiamat"

Asked under interrogation conditions.

Because really, if you think someone won't ask that question, you're missing a trick.
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"A mage I've never seen before in my life" for everyone butour contact.

"A contact of mine whom I trust, but must remain anonymous" for the big LB.
 
If we decide to go after Lucan we should do it by attending the Conclave, and making it clear we aren't there to start trouble but will respond in kind if attacked. On their head be it.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Ok @DragonParadox I will stop you right there, because this is incredibly interesting.

I want to unravel what's been going on here, as learning what's actually going on is interesting in and of itself.
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Several people have expressed similar sentiments, but the pacing was still terrible not least because I threw you guys into what looks like generic mind flayer/Tiamat intrigue with seemingly no connection to the conclave. It's a case of front-loading all the fluff and holding back way too much information mostly because of my distaste of info-dumps. However I now realize I went too far. Wrapping 1,400 words of info in appropriate iC fluff would have taken far too many updates.
 
DragonParadox said:
Most Devout by Region:
  1. Westerlands 11
  2. Reach: 9
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Why are there more Most Devout in the Westerlands than in the Reach ? The Reach has a bigger population, territory and the Starry sept a pretty important place for the Faith of the Seven is here, I would expect the Reach to be the region with the most septon and most devout. Unless it follows a different criteria for how many most devout per region ?
 
Absylon Quilby said:
If we decide to go after Lucan we should do it by attending the Conclave, and making it clear we aren't there to start trouble but will respond in kind if attacked. On their head be it.
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Immediately after Lanna and her Lannister mages come into Oldtown through teleportation, the Citadel goes into high alert and sends it magic users. We would have an army of mages on our asses in three hours tops. Mind you we can take them but this would start our war.
 
DragonParadox said:
Several people have expressed similar sentiments, but the pacing was still terrible not least because I threw you guys into what looks like generic mind flayer/Tiamat intrigue with seemingly no connection to the conclave. It's a case of front-loading all the fluff and holding back way too much information mostly because of my distaste of info-dumps. However I now realize I went too far. Wrapping 1,400 words of info in appropriate iC fluff would have taken far too many updates.
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... How is the connection to the Conclave not clear? Or generic?

A Tiamat Cult straight up sneaked inside the Temple of the Smith, subtly creating a widespread Tiamat religion.

Meanwhile, the mortal side is supporting the demon priest and preparing to make people hate us through a false-flag operation.

And while that is happening, there's a Deep One spy moving enthralled people within the city for as-of-yet unknown purposes, and either it or the Cult is unware of each-other's existence, as someone is being used here.

It's a great set-up.
 
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