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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I really don't understand why y'all are against us just contacting the Lantern Bearer who we've established halfway friendly relations with?
 
Goldfish said:
I really don't understand why y'all are against us just contacting the Lantern Bearer who we've established halfway friendly relations with?
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Because we don't want Viserys' name stamped all over this. Which it will be, because none of us believe that the Lantern Bearers can handle this on their own. Taking a persona means that we can actually help them.
 
Goldfish said:
I really don't understand why y'all are against us just contacting the Lantern Bearer who we've established halfway friendly relations with?
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I'm fine with that, just unclear on how we'll proceed from there. Can't exactly provide the help the Lantern Bearers might need to not die as ourselves.

So we'd need to improvise a persona to work alongside the lantern bearers, and they need to be a Westerosi persona because someone from Essos just screams suspicious motives. That's how the discussion arrived to whether an existing Westerosi persona is suitable for the role.
 
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065tdsa said:
Something to remember is Dywen is a divine caster. That means he's a sizable investment of power from the Old Gods, who are well established to be angry and have a lot of things they need fought. Bloodraven would never pick somebody who'd not fight because it'd be a net loss in the long term, because the Others can't be negotiated with.

Basically, I feel it'd be out of character for the OG and Bloodraven to invest too much power on someone who won't fight.
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It's not like most people understand Bloodraven's mind or the reasoning of the Old Gods, to pick apart the persona like that you woudl basically have to be Viserys or a companion.
 
Azel said:
For fucks sake, this isn't an argument for anything at all. I prefer a defeat with substance over counter-arguments like this.
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While I was being tongue in cheek, I did have an argument and that was from the perspective of outside play, having a variety of characters with different motivations can keep play interesting and engaging for players. Having NPC's that act differently from each other and can't all be used for the exact same thing is a nice way to prevent what I call 'hoard creep,' where the PC's gather literally every NPC they meet onto the same team and in the process make them all bland cutout characters. While I'm aware Dywin is a fictional character in game, from the perspective of a player they might as well be as real as any of the other characters.
 
Because the political fallout will destroy their organization?

I assume we would put on disguise during the operation. Not while trying to talk with them.
 
chryssalideater said:
While I was being tongue in cheek, I did have an argument and that was from the perspective of outside play, having a variety of characters with different motivations can keep play interesting and engaging for players. Having NPC's that act differently from each other and can't all be used for the exact same thing is a nice way to prevent what I call 'hoard creep,' where the PC's gather literally every NPC they meet onto the same team and in the process make them all bland cutout characters. While I'm aware Dywin is a fictional character in game, from the perspective of a player they might as well be as real as any of the other characters.
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I do happen to agree with that point completely. Especially the 'hoard creep' part.
Massgamer said:
Been busy for last few days with family stuff so what is point of contention this time?
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Me being bitchy at other people for little to no reason. The usual.
 
If I ever do run a quest, I'm setting a fixed capacity for NPC followers/minions. Hopefully knowing you can only gather 4/5 characters would slow down the collection addiction.
 
chryssalideater said:
If I ever do run a quest, I'm setting a fixed capacity for NPC followers/minions. Hopefully knowing you can only gather 4/5 characters would slow down the collection addiction.
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That seems like something best done organically. Giving NPCs attachments, responsibilities and things to do so they can't up stakes and join the party is already a good idea all on it's own, since it's good characterization.
 
DragonParadox said:
The problem with that is that it is an artificial limit like WBL and those tend to warp the story in my experience.
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Oh I'm sure I could find a way to justify it. Logistics, NPCvNPC drama etc. Fact is every single quest Ive read has gathered interesting NPC's to the party in the exact order they are met. I think its just something to do with the way the playerbase thinks collectively.
 
chryssalideater said:
Oh I'm sure I could find a way to justify it. Logistics, NPCvNPC drama etc. Fact is every single quest Ive read has gathered interesting NPC's to the party in the exact order they are met. I think its just something to do with the way the playerbase thinks collectively.
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Internal party drama is one of those things woefully underutilized in quests. Also, the classical character of the Rival. I'm rather glad we kept Zherys around.
 
chryssalideater said:
Not from a practical perspective, from an emotional/ooc view. Otherwise people wouldn't get attached to these personas at all.
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Yes, because the opinions of everyone who get invested in a particular character must be completely and fully respected in all occasions.

Oh, wait. That doesn't happen at all.

I actually entirely get the horde instinct you're talking about, but for fuck's sake we're past the point of using Dywen as far as I'm concerned. I have asked for help in building another persona and been summarily ignored - this does matter, actually, because I wanted to know if there was reason for a reusable character vs one who can just be thrown away in the end. One requires more work than the other. Given the apparent total lack of interest in long term planning on that scale, with more focus made by the person I was asking put towards telling me there was no reason to do something without actually engaging at all, I'm not seeing much reason to continue trying where this plan is concerned.
Adhoc vote count started by Snowfire on Apr 23, 2019 at 11:17 AM, finished with 135 posts and 9 votes.
  • [X] Honesty and Deception v2
    -[X] Make a note to look into the Shermer household with nonmagical means, specifically their actions in recent months and what power the family holds within Oldtown.
    -[X] Scry the Lantern Bearer that you saw observing the Smith's Sept, with the aim of finding a way to make contact.
    --[X] Make your introduction in the guise of Dywen, a powerful follower of the Old Gods, whose dreams have led him to the city and the infestation within.
    ---[X] If it would be in keeping with thematics, say that in those dreams that you were guided towards the Lantern Bearers, as the true magical protectors of the city.
    --[X] Before speaking further, offer a blessing to veil the man's actions from the vision of the Bitch Queen's servants, explaining that they divine six times a day if they will be attacked.
    --[X] If he accepts, proceed to explain as much as you know of the conspiracy within the Sept. Offer your aid to the Lantern Bearers to strike this corruption from their city. If asked why one who follows the Old Gods would wish to worshipers of the Seven, point out that it is not for them, but those deceived in their prayers that you have come to aid. The power that has come to infest the Smith's Sept cannot be allowed to simply persist with the Conclave so close at hand.
    ---[X] Dywen's focus on the Conclave in this is driven by his primarily peaceful nature, awareness of the powers of those within the Sept, and the entirely human desire to not place hundreds or thousands of lives in danger - as Faithful will surely flock to the city as the Conclave gathers.
    --[X] If questions on his ability to actually aid an assault, promise blessings of the Old Gods (tangible and real) and healing to any who might require it after the battle is done. If pushed, offer that you are a man poorly suited to violence, but if it is truly necessary, you could work to stymie that magics of your shared foes.
    -[X] Meanwhile, Lya and the rest of the party are to plan out an assault on the manse. Vee is to summon several Thoqqua with SNA to get a picture of the ground floor and any guard routes via their Tremorsense ability, and that plan will be used to build a swift assault on the building with the aim of securing as many captives as quietly as possible. If there is sufficient time after combat, magic is to be used to repair as much damage as possible, to make it appear that the Golden Company cell simply ran.
    --[X] Ensure that any sign of the mutated Darkenbeast is purged.
    [X] Contact the Lantern Bearers
    -[X] Look for the one you met, he seemed reasonable enough. Do Mindblank him before you reveal any critical information, however.
    -[X] Do reveal to him the situation as you know it, that an enemy of yours seeks to besmirch your name and, on the way of foiling then, you've discovered their operations run far deeper than you've previously thought, and you've and stumbled upon a Deep One infiltration literally next-door on top of that. Ask about his plans and any knowledge he has on the GC/Tia-chan's demons, and the Deep Ones house.
    [X] Abstain
    [X] Snowfire's Plan but as Tisery- Master Liu
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DragonParadox said:
Even so it's hard to design stakes and responsibilities that cannot be circumvented without again appealing to fiat. People are not robots.
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I think a lot of that can have to do with the type of world you're telling the story in. Some responsibilities truly are that important, and if you don't have a way to have them taken care of by another, then I don't feel like it's fiat to be unable to recruit a person. People are not robots, yes, but that cuts both ways. Just because you're The Protagonist doesn't mean that they'll be willing to give up a founding pillar of their adult personality because you need them for something. Different strokes, I guess.
 
Nice! Cinder wolves will make for excellent companions to our future rangers.

I have been thinking about having a ranger division of our army, one specializing in guerilla warfare and deep territory infiltration. Basically we send them into an area for a while, they either all split up and spread out or they form a bunch of rest points and camps, and they begin ambushing, attacking, and raiding our enemies. Often doing lightning attacks and ambushes, quickly getting in, killing everything (or just as many as they can), loot everything (or just as much as they can before needing to retreat), and then fade away into the surrounding lands.


I am thinking of calling them the Far Striders in honor of their likely teacher, Soft Strider.


If we do this then our animal hoard will come in very handy as it will become a reliable source of animal companions for them.... In fact, it could be standard. Every Far Strider must have an animal they cared for from infancy with them. Said animal will serve as a tracker, companion, combatant, and more.



What do you guys think of the concept?
 
Snowfire said:
Yes, because the opinions of everyone who get invested in a particular character must be completely and fully respected in all occasions.

Oh, wait. That doesn't happen at all.

I actually entirely get the horde instinct you're talking about, but for fuck's sake we're past the point of using Dywen as far as I'm concerned. I have asked for help in building another persona and been summarily ignored - this does matter, actually, because I wanted to know if there was reason for a reusable character vs one who can just be thrown away in the end. One requires more work than the other. Given the apparent total lack of interest in long term planning on that scale, with more focus made by the person I was asking put towards telling me there was no reason to do something without actually engaging at all, I'm not seeing much reason to continue trying where this plan is concerned.
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Oh well that's because drama is always easier to get involved in than actual intelligent long term planning that benefits us. On a more serious note, I'd be interested in either using Master Liu or that red priestess DP mentioned, but as I'm unfamiliar with the intricate details of a) this meeting b) the character DP mentioned and c) the long term benefits we'd like to or might be able to get out of this, I've refrained from commenting on that matter too heavily.

DragonParadox said:
Even so it's hard to design stakes and responsibilities that cannot be circumvented without again appealing to fiat. People are not robots.
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And lord knows that gets so much harder when the PC is a walking charisma bomb (which for some inexplicable reason is always how players will try to build a character. Wonder why?)
 
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DragonParadox said:
Even so it's hard to design stakes and responsibilities that cannot be circumvented without again appealing to fiat. People are not robots.
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*cough* necromancy *cough*

For real though. The next time you play a necromancer don't use command undead.

Bending a horde of blood thirsty and slavering monsters with logical arguments and charisma alone is where it's at.

Edit: @lockingbane
Actually I was thinking of taking it an Inquisition branch.

Focused on hunting down and keeping an eye on things like wild fey and shambling mounds, and other horrible, horrible things that kill people in the wilderness.
 
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chryssalideater said:
Oh well that's because drama is always easier to get involved in than actual intelligent long term planning that benefits us. On a more serious note, I'd be interested in either using Master Liu or that red priestess DP mentioned, but as I'm unfamiliar with the intricate details of a) this meeting b) the character DP mentioned and c) the long term benefits we'd like to or might be able to get out of this, I've refrained from commenting on that matter too heavily.
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They're both Eastern which means they're likely to be distrusted on sight given the Golden Company's members are (I believe) primarily of the same stock. A Westerosi agent is, I feel, far more acceptable, and likely to be less of a "Damn foreigners butting in on our home matters". Yes, you can get around that, but Master Liu has no reason to be here as far as motivations go (and this will get back to the Faceless Men somehow, I'm sure) and bringing a Red Priest into this....I mean that basically just does the same thing to her as I was suggesting to do with Dywen, so I'm just left here shrugging helplessly.
 
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