Yay, another apocalypse to fix in the making!

It's, what, the 6th? Or the 7th?

Others, Illithids, The 15th, Devils, Rakshasa Emperor...
Do we count Tiamat toward "apocalypse"-cases?
She wants to kill us and destroy all we've built, but she is not a "total destruction of all civilisation"-worthy... I think.

Also, @Goldfish, could you give a breakdown of WailsatCheese's post please?

All I'm seeing is math, and after an exam period, I'm afraid of getting too deep into it.

*shudders*
He's on the right track, but has some stuff wrong. Resistance bonuses, for example, do not stack.

Basically, if we throw enough money at it, we can have virtually unbeatable saves. I like cheese, but I've never liked it in that form. It's possible within the bounds of the crafting system, but I willingly choose not to try to exploit it. It's the same reason I advocated against using Epic magic, even though I could have cracked the planet in half with it if given free reign.
 
He's on the right track, but has some stuff wrong. Resistance bonuses, for example, do not stack.

Basically, if we throw enough money at it, we can have virtually unbeatable saves. I like cheese, but I've never liked it in that form. It's possible within the bounds of the crafting system, but I willingly choose not to try to exploit it. It's the same reason I advocated against using Epic magic, even though I could have cracked the planet in half with it if given free reign.
ah, so the mighty desire for Awesome is overpowered by respecting the game, yet again.

Fine by me.
What we are sporting already feels on par with rulers of richest places in the setting.
 
Do we count Tiamat toward "apocalypse"-cases?
She wants to kill us and destroy all we've built, but she is not a "total destruction of all civilisation"-worthy... I think.
World domination by chromatics would certainly ended civilisation as we know it.

The only reason we don't count her as an apocalypse is that the soliatry nature and slow growth of dragons makes that outcome unlikely.
 
too random to count toward "Apocalypse", I think.
Sure, a massed invasion would be one, but it would also be something we will likely see in the making.
Not nearly as infuriatingly subtle as devils.
They count towards the apocalypse. If left unchecked, they always end up screwing things up for us. Imagine what would happen if Mantarys wasn't fixed. If Tyrosh wasn't fixed. So yes, they count.
Aren't targeting Plane Material, and have way too much on their platter, thanks to us.

Also, @Goldfish, could you give a breakdown of Walliseatschees' post, in regards to what we have/will have since it seems to be a promising avenue, please?

All I'm seeing is math, and after an exam period, I'm afraid of getting too deep into it.

*shudders*
Oh, they'll be doing counterinvasions eventually.
 
Also with all the bodyguard jobs this will cause, I'm really tempted to see if we can use targeted reincarnation, to reincarnate the Kongamato as some form of drake with fire immunity, then beat it around in dragon form until it swear fealty, so we can hire it to a pod as a bodyguard, I know I'm unlikely to get support, but I had to say it at least once.

I'm not opposed to rezzing the sonic raptor dragon in some manner and then seeing if applied force would bring it under our rule. Specific details on what to send the dragon to work on is more up in the air for me, because the idea of the B Team having their own personal Dragon tier force on hand is appealing.

Now, where to get the money to equip at least 5 people with such...

I'm unable to find our end income any time I look for it, but we regularly drop lots of money on magic item creation as well as various in the moment projects.

It costs 37.5k IM to add +25 (luck, insight, morale, competence, sacred) to all saves to a Mind Blank item in house, so it would cost 187.5k IM to equip 5 people as such or 206,250 IM for +30 (cost of +5 Resistance Bonus 3750 ×5 = 18750) if Dany's DMM Persistomancy is not accounted for by DP.

Considering I still remember 100k IM being dropped on such and such, it's more a matter of available crafting time than immediate cost, especially if we spread it out over two months.

He's on the right track, but has some stuff wrong. Resistance bonuses, for example, do not stack.

Resistance bonuses stack with bonuses of other types. As noted in the post, that particular math is only relevant if DP is not accounting for the +6 Resistance bonus that Dany provides, as the Will Save on our character sheet has two +6s not three, accounting for our Wisdom bonus and our Competence bonus.
 
The greatest hurdle is surviving the environment. Whoever gets the job will need blanket Fire immunity or high level resistance, and it will need to be constant.
I've been musing on the idea of growing Fire-Immune Leshys once we unlock it.
I'm not opposed to rezzing the sonic raptor dragon in some manner and then seeing if applied force would bring it under our rule. Specific details on what to send the dragon to work on is more up in the air for me, because the idea of the B Team having their own personal Dragon tier force on hand is appealing.
I am. I'm against hiring a Low-INT literal child-eater, and will campaign against this.
 
They wouldn't really need the Cure spell very often.

At 5th level, they could have 8 ranks of Heal and a +3 Wisom bonus. That +11. Divine Insight would add +10 to the check for a total of +21. The Cure spell is only their for crit failures.
Yeah that sounds good, that was what I was trying to say, that the cure spell should only be needed at crit fails, not regularly.

So can we make or grow Harvesters? Or do we need to hire them, the best would be growing them, that don't take crafter time, and beings grown in the Fungus Forge, are very unlikely to spread the knowledge of how to do it, each harvester will be making an absolute fortune, so even if they have to be high CR, growing them with bought reagents would still be worth it, if we charge 10% of the gems, then a Harvester earns us 70 IM per Whale, even with traveling time, a Harvester should be able to harvest 5 Whales a day meaning 150 a month, that means a harvester would make 10500 IM a month, so even if they had to be CR10, it would only take a month for them to pay for themselves.

Also I think I just worked out what Mercenaries we should recommend the Whales, namely beings grown in the Fungus Forge, we never have it working to capacity, and 1 pods monthly income, is enough to pay for a CR10 protector grown there, we just have to figure out how to grow plant creatures with fire immunity, but we are already working that out for the Weirwoods, we should be able to apply that to the Fungus Forge as well.
The greatest hurdle is surviving the environment. Whoever gets the job will need blanket Fire immunity or high level resistance, and it will need to be constant.
Probably a better idea to use the fire immunity plant research we have done, and grow fire immune Harvesters in the Fungus Forge, the Archivists are too rare anyway, 1 harvester can harvest 150-300 Whales a month, there are over a million Whales in the POF, as this spread, we would run out of available Archivists.
 
I am. I'm against hiring a Low-INT literal child-eater, and will campaign against this.
My new plan was trying a targeted Reincarnation, into a fire immune lesser dragon of roughly equal power, we could choose one with a better int score, then it would just be a matter of some reeducation.

Actually I think I have a better new plan, we find an appropriate lesser fire immune dragon, and then we ask Amrelath if he would like such an underling, unlike us he has more time to keep a weaker dragon cowed, and being granted a lesser dragon underling would probably please him.

We can't drag the Kongamato around with us for months, to train him into a better subordinate, but Amrelath can do that, and seeing as it involve getting a strong subordinate, he would probably be happy to do so.

Remember the more job perks we give Amrelath, the more likely it's he will keep working for us after our agreement run out.
 
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My new plan was trying a targeted Reincarnation, into a fire immune lesser dragon of roughly equal power, we could choose one with a better int score, then it would just be a matter of some reeducation.

Actually I think I have a better new plan, we find an appropriate lesser fire immune dragon, and then we ask Amrelath if he would like such an underling, unlike us he has more time to keep a weaker dragon cowed, and being granted a lesser dragon underling would probably please him.

We can't drag the Kongamato around with us for months, to train him into a better subordinate, but Amrelath can do that, and seeing as it involve getting a strong subordinate, he would probably be happy to do so.
I am never going to support recruiting a child-eater.
Remember the more job perks we give Amrelath, the more likely it's he will keep working for us after our agreement run out.
You've got a severe misunderstanding of our arrangement with Amrelath.

He hasn't just bargained for a few years of service, now he's a sworn vassal. That's forever.
 
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Yeah that sounds good, that was what I was trying to say, that the cure spell should only be needed at crit fails, not regularly.

So can we make or grow Harvesters? Or do we need to hire them, the best would be growing them, that don't take crafter time, and beings grown in the Fungus Forge, are very unlikely to spread the knowledge of how to do it, each harvester will be making an absolute fortune, so even if they have to be high CR, growing them with bought reagents would still be worth it, if we charge 10% of the gems, then a Harvester earns us 70 IM per Whale, even with traveling time, a Harvester should be able to harvest 5 Whales a day meaning 150 a month, that means a harvester would make 10500 IM a month, so even if they had to be CR10, it would only take a month for them to pay for themselves.

Also I think I just worked out what Mercenaries we should recommend the Whales, namely beings grown in the Fungus Forge, we never have it working to capacity, and 1 pods monthly income, is enough to pay for a CR10 protector grown there, we just have to figure out how to grow plant creatures with fire immunity, but we are already working that out for the Weirwoods, we should be able to apply that to the Fungus Forge as well.

Probably a better idea to use the fire immunity plant research we have done, and grow fire immune Harvesters in the Fungus Forge, the Archivists are too rare anyway, 1 harvester can harvest 150-300 Whales a month, there are over a million Whales in the POF, as this spread, we would run out of available Archivists.
I was thinking we might try to get Velen to help us Summon some more of his fellow Phoenixes. One with Cleric levels would be enough, but a while flock of them might work, too. They already have a +8 Heal bonus at baseline, so they could use Aid Another actions and maybe a Divine Insight on command item, to do the harvesting.

And I like the idea of the Fire Whales teaming up with the Phoenixes. We probably wouldn't even need to expend resources and they might do the harvesting work for free.

Fire Immune plants are also a possibility, I guess, but the Phoenix option is more viable, IMO.
 
I am never going to support recruiting a child-eater.

You've got a severe misunderstanding our our arrangement with Amrelath.

He hasn't just bargained for a few years of service, now he's a sworn vassal. That's forever.
No, I'm pretty sure he swore to enter our service as a vassal for five years. After that, he might stick around or strike out on his own.

Am I remembering that incorrectly?
 
No, I'm pretty sure he swore to enter our service as a vassal for five years. After that, he might stick around or strike out on his own.

Am I remembering that incorrectly?
You're remembering incorrectly.

When we bargained with him, it was 5 years in exchange for being brought back to life.

Then after that he bargained for true vassalage in exchange for our support in getting his own domain.
 
You're remembering incorrectly.

When we bargained with him, it was 5 years in exchange for being brought back to life.

Then after that he bargained for true vassalage in exchange for our support in getting his own domain.
Huh.
So this asshole is around here forever.

*hesitantly scratches Amrelath out of the Support Beam of Grudges*
 
Also, worth pointing out now that I've just pieced some things together.

Asshai is basically Planetosi India stand-in.
 
Also, worth pointing out now that I've just pieced some things together.

Asshai is basically Planetosi India stand-in.
No.
It's east of the east-asian like culture and it's in nothing similar.

A dark city of mask-wearing people, with no or few children in the city, with many real mages and constantly resisting an evil from the northeast?
I see no IRL equivalent.
 
I am. I'm against hiring a Low-INT literal child-eater, and will campaign against this.

I forgot that bit. To be fair, we have over twenty beings in our service who have done similarly tiered evils for centuries. I'm not willing to put in the effort to campaign prolongly for it, but we literally just took a LE outsider into our service not two updates ago.

The major issue I see is the effort required to ensure that the child eater is made aware of what is and isn't acceptable, and that the unacceptable will not be tolerated. With extreme prejudice.

We have this whole theme about redemption through breaking magical bonds and service, so it seems contradictory to me that the Kongamato is dismissed due to its actions. I'm not exactly going to cry about it not being resurrected, but I'd rather argue on the basis of the difficulty of rehabilitation and the complex ethics and morality of magically increasing the Kongamato's mental attributes until it's properly capable of understanding the concepts of justice, mercy, and innocence than "it's actions make it inherently irredeemable."

Even an argument for whether or not it's willing or capable of experiencing remorse over its actions feels contradictory with the Erinyes in our employ, because while they definitely didn't want to stay in Hell, they definitely don't regret any of their actions that furthered progress in the Blood War, of which we've been informed included a plethora of atrocities that they're specifically proud of.

If someone offered up a plan to Mark of Justice the Kongamato, slap it with inherit bonuses to Int and Wisdom, and have Waymar and Tyene educate it on why its previous actions aren't acceptable, based on our other vassals and employees my only objection would amount to "Are there better things we can have Waymar and Tyene doing, or can we shapechange the Kongamato into a Medium shape and have it squire under Waymar so he can continue his other duties while educating the dragon?"

Also, worth pointing out now that I've just pieced some things together.

Asshai is basically Planetosi India stand-in.

While Rakshakas are sourced to India, what other bits are India relevant?
 
I am never going to support recruiting a child-eater.
It's a dragon, child eating is pretty standard for them, our Erinyes have probably done worse thing, so long as we can make it swear never to do it again, I don't see the problem.
You've got a severe misunderstanding of our arrangement with Amrelath.

He hasn't just bargained for a few years of service, now he's a sworn vassal. That's forever.
I must have remembered wrong then, I remembered that he swore to work for us for a certain number of years.
I was thinking we might try to get Velen to help us Summon some more of his fellow Phoenixes. One with Cleric levels would be enough, but a while flock of them might work, too. They already have a +8 Heal bonus at baseline, so they could use Aid Another actions and maybe a Divine Insight on command item, to do the harvesting.

And I like the idea of the Fire Whales teaming up with the Phoenixes. We probably wouldn't even need to expend resources and they might do the harvesting work for free.

Fire Immune plants are also a possibility, I guess, but the Phoenix option is more viable, IMO.
Phoenix option is cheaper, but on the other hand it cost us control, if we use third part contractors, then any share of the profits we will be getting will be significantly less, I'm okay with that, the first priority is helping the Whales, but as a state, doing it for free isn't exactly ideal, and it's not like the Whales will lack money as soon as it start, they don't need us to work for free.

But even if we use Phoenixes as Harvesters, I think we should be making CR10 fire immune Plant creatures to them, as soon as we can make them, a pod earn enough a month to pay for the growth of 1, they then get the creature for 5 years(or until it's killed whatever comes first) at which point they can refresh the contract.

The Whales would be paying for the growth, so it would cost us nothing to grow them, and once the 5 year contract run out, we either get a bunch of money as they renew it, or we get a CR10 plant creature entering our service, that's what I call a win/win scenario, the Whales get some of the most loyal protectors possible, custom made to fight Whalers, it cost us nothing, as we have as of yet never had the Forge running at capacity, and in 5 year we get great profits, and as the cherry on top, the Shaitan owes us, for adding more anti-Efreeti forces to the POF, so we also get some short-term profits.

In cases where a pod has multiple plant protectors, if 1 of them dies and the others don't, the dead one will of course have it's corpse returned to the Forge, so we profit even from some of the ones, who don't survive their 5 years.

It irritates me that the Forge is sitting idle, it would please me greatly, if we could hire out the excess capacity, so it's always working to the maximum amount it.
 
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