And a wizard with decent gear can reliably defeat them.
Hey, check out the stats of the "official" Elder Evils. Sure they're mighty and terrible, but they can be killed. Theoretically, Viserys alone could handle one right now (more easily if given 3 Companions) - it'd just be incredibly risky and I'd prefer not to chance it, but it can be done.
I'm not that hung up about it, besides demanding any class picked is more than just "well it would be empty levels otherwise so let's have this 'nice' bonus!"

Thematic advancement is a must for me.

Hell if you took preexisting classes, riffed off them and didn't go much outside of the lines, and created an upjumped Custom PrC (which most of Teana's are at this point) you wouldn't have half as much arguments against Abjurant Champion, for example. Oh whoopie, it makes it easier to cast Abjuration.

Christ, it's an suggestion like that which causes Dragon-Blooded or Sage of Creation to spring up.

Remember when someone suggested Viserys should go Dragon Disciple? Oh halcyon days.
 
How many people do we have available, who can consistently make a DC20 Heal check? Or alternatively how can we get access to cure serious wounds for the harvesters, so they only need to make a DC15 check?

Also how can we make them able to survive on the Plane of Fire?

We need to actually assign people to do the harvesting, we now know how to do it, but we haven't yet set up the infrastructure to do it, I wish I could do this myself, but this isn't a part of the quest I actually have much knowledge of.
 
Wait a minute, why does Garin get a feat?

So, there were quite a few comments acting as if Garin is Level 15 already. I know he has a LA +1 template, but didn't DP house rule buying it off with XP?

Now he advances like everyone else. I think you might have missed that for, oh, say, a year and a half...
 
That said, Dragon Disciple does look super neat. I'd like to have this class on a minion at some point.
For me it read as a way to 2 step to Dragonblooded, for those too thinblooded to take Dragonblooded, would make sense, if this is a lesser class those who tried and failed to take Dragonblooded achieved, it would also make sense, if once you have capped Dragon Disciple, you have thickened your blood allowing you to attain levels in Dragonblooded.
 
How many people do we have available, who can consistently make a DC20 Heal check? Or alternatively how can we get access to cure serious wounds for the harvesters, so they only need to make a DC15 check?

Also how can we make them able to survive on the Plane of Fire?

We need to actually assign people to do the harvesting, we now know how to do it, but we haven't yet set up the infrastructure to do it, I wish I could do this myself, but this isn't a part of the quest I actually have much knowledge of.
*turns Tarrangar's scheme of saving Fire Whales from hunters into a heartless industry that harvests them for profit*

*laughs diabolically*

On a more serious note, I can't help but feel that in the end it will end up in Sultan's forces capturing whales and harvesting them somewhere where he can assure of them staying alive and captured.
He needs but to get a whim of this new way of getting a lot of profit, after all.
Or any of big whale-hunters get an in with the city, if not Sultan himself.
Or any of the Lord of efreeti.

And they have, comparatively, all the time in the universe to get it steadily and eventually way more than by killing whales.

We have found a veritable gold mine here.
And whales are dumb.

Lets enjoy the moment, as we see ourselves become that one scientist that invented "insert_invention" and then saw it used as a "insert_horrible_weapon".
:V
 
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Corollary to that... I like fire whales.

Also you're acting like the person who dropped a baby in the acid bath because someone told you they had swallowed a diamond. You might still get the diamond, but no one considered polite company will want to be around you afterwards.

What's next, clubbing fire seals because they secrete a valuable oil?

Edit: Or using the baby to make soup to "replenish our spell slots" as many Westerosi would have it. :V
 
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Interlude CCCLXI: Dragons' Gifts
Dragons' Gifts

Seventh Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

King's Landing was cold...
such an utterly insipid thought for one returning to the land of one's birth after having been exiled beyond its shores, beyond life itself, Rhaella Targaryen thought. Yet still it was the truth. She had gotten used to the sun soaking into her bones, to the bright colors and impossible sights that her eyes had once, not so long ago, slipped from in confusion. By contrast the bustle and chatter near the River Gate seemed drab and dull, like a painting that had been left too long in a dusty attic.

"The nice thing about pretending to be foreigners is we can look around as much as we like and folk will just think we are gawking like a marsh-dweller at the Moon Pool," Dany said softly.

You are a foreigner, sweetheart, Rhaella thought to herself with a twinge of sorrow. Her daughter would never be home here, she would never cheer with innocent wonder upon seeing her first winter snow turn the city glittering white, she would never cheer at her first tourney or know the rush of handing out a favor to a knight when it is all just a great big game that grown-ups play. Now instead she is here to kill a man, and she would be insulted to be told that she aught not walk such a path.

"Come on, we need to get off the streets and get an ear out on the local doings as soon as we can," the boy Maelor spoke up. Had he sensed something of her unease or was he just anxious not to be out in the open? For all his swagger and willful irreverence she had noticed a sort of meticulous caution about him, the sort you got when the difference between a good plan and a bad one dictates whether you got to eat or not she imagined.

***​

Maelor looked down at the greasy stew in his bowl, supremely glad he no longer had to eat if he didn't want to. Finding the inn had been easy enough, the place had not been built to be subtle what with the big red rooster sign hanging on rusted hooks that creaked enough to wake the dead. Getting to talk to the local gang boss without tipping their hand and starting rumors had been something else entirely. Hort Half-Ear was the sort of fellow who just didn't talk to foreigners and gentry, not for love or gold... or even love of gold for a wonder. But they needed an ear to the ground to start tracking the spider's webs.

Aradia had argued that they should just grab the fat fuck and worry about suborning his spies later, but Maelor knew that if he were the sort of heartless son of a bitch who would cut off kid's tongues so they wouldn't tell on you he would make sure the whole thing got tangled the moment he wasn't around to guide it. They couldn't just assume everything would work out and they'd have him trussed up like a goose.

"How do you think our friend Hort would do with a prophetic dream?" Dany asked thoughtfully. "A prophecy of great wealth if he shows up in such and such place for a chat..."

"He'll think a mage is f..." Maelor cut himself off, looking towards the queen. "Screwing with his head, and if you actually screw with his head to get him to show up he'll be worse than useless. We'd never be able to trust him. Same thing if we use glamours to talk to him I reckon. He's the kind to turn over every rock for snakes..."

"And his paranoia makes him an ideal candidate for actually learning the pulse of the city in good time, I know. You don't have to run over the reasoning again," Dany huffed.

"Have you considered contacting him through someone he is close to? A family member or a lover?" Dany's mother cut in.

Maelor and Dany shared a look, unsure how they had missed something so obvious in hindsight.

***​

"Doesn't look like the place you would find the lover of a notorious cutthroat, does it?" Dany said as she peered at the small grey stone house. The roof was properly tiled, and the chickens clucking sleepily somewhere out behind the shop made it look like just another small respectable business with the owner living above it. Of course the owner they were looking for happened to be the wife of the draper made things just a little more complicated. They set about planning what to say.

The soft tapping of her talons against the wavy glass of the window drew no attention for the longest time, enough that she was starting to get annoyed at the fact that they could not just use magic to tell if a given course of action would work, since it would mean voiding their own protections against magic. Finally someone came to investigate, a thin-faced woman in a long maroon dress that looked almost like it had been made from the very poorest offerings of her husband's stock.

Given a choice Dany would have left a note, but she was almost certain the woman would not have been able to read it in any case. So she just spoke up directly, confident that she would silence the woman with magic if she screamed and wipe away the memory of the encounter if she was uncooperative: "I need to get a message to Hort Half-Ear about an opportunity for him and for you if you would take it..." As she spun her tale perched there on the windowsill, Dany wondered not for the first time if imps felt like this as they plotted, schemed, and tempted. If so, then she might almost understand the damn things at least a little bit. This was fun.

OOC: In the end I could not take the interlude far enough in a single day to require a vote even if I wanted to. Instead it turned into a three part character piece including the various contrasts of Rhaella, Maelor, and Dany
.
 
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Part of harvesting from Fire Whales involves cutting into them.

One could then assume that the oil gets secreted the harder you club them.
 
Because he's going from level 14 to level 15. Feats every third level.
Huh. I was so certain he was hitting level 16... Well then.

I'm not that hung up about it, besides demanding any class picked is more than just "well it would be empty levels otherwise so let's have this 'nice' bonus!"

Thematic advancement is a must for me.

Hell if you took preexisting classes, riffed off them and didn't go much outside of the lines, and created an upjumped Custom PrC (which most of Teana's are at this point) you wouldn't have half as much arguments against Abjurant Champion, for example. Oh whoopie, it makes it easier to cast Abjuration.

Christ, it's an suggestion like that which causes Dragon-Blooded or Sage of Creation to spring up.

Remember when someone suggested Viserys should go Dragon Disciple? Oh halcyon days.
Dragon Disciple? [vomits]. That class is so hilariously bad that not even a baseline fighter woudl want it if the prerequisites were waived!

To be fair, Abjurant Champion is amazingly good for an Exalted Wizard-based Gish. They can get an AC past 80, all day long. On Waymar it's not half as insane - just cool.

On "We don't need more custom PrCs to beat Elder Evils": an Aspect of Sertrous has 460 HP, fast healing 10, DR 20/cold iron and lawful, AC 39 (touch 9), Blindsight 500ft and Spot +31, 2 auras with large range requiring Will DC 30 and Fort DC 33, immunity to all divine magic, SR 33, some elemental resistances 10-20, immunity to mind-affecting + energy drain + negative levels + polymorph + petrification, Fort +25, Ref +16, Will +18, Attack: 1 bite +35 (6d6+16+poison), 2 claws +33 (2d6+8) and tail +33 (4d6+8), improved grab and 3d6 charisma drain and constrict, Power Attack and Awesome Blow, True Seeing and nondetection, immunity to all divine divination, at-will astral projection + desecrate + detect good + greater dispel magic + poison (DC 21) + telekinesis (DC 22) + greater teleport + unhallow + unholy blight (DC 21), 3/day quickened poison (DC 21) + symbol of insanity (DC 25), veil (DC 23), 1/day scintillating pattern (DC 25).

That's tough, but not unbeatable for lv 20 wizards. Finding him is the real issue: once he's found he can be killed just by outnumbering him! Keep 2 dedicated Counterspellers and 1 dedicated "escape PC" ready to Teleport everyone out, and then beat him to death from range with Assay Spell Resistance + blasting spells. Easy fight. A single lv20 wizard willing to use Ice Assassins of himself and lots of WBL is quite capable of going it!

My favorite (and simplest) solution would be to fight it in melee inside an AMF, but it's still super deadly even without magic. That sounds immensely risky (if super cool).

Of course DP will have it fight smart and use allies and lots of gear. Then things become very difficult. Heck, we'd risk having endless games of tag where both sides hide and only fight through astral projections!
 
Huh. I was so certain he was hitting level 16... Well then.


Dragon Disciple? [vomits]. That class is so hilariously bad that not even a baseline fighter woudl want it if the prerequisites were waived!

To be fair, Abjurant Champion is amazingly good for an Exalted Wizard-based Gish. They can get an AC past 80, all day long. On Waymar it's not half as insane - just cool.

On "We don't need more custom PrCs to beat Elder Evils": an Aspect of Sertrous has 460 HP, fast healing 10, DR 20/cold iron and lawful, AC 39 (touch 9), Blindsight 500ft and Spot +31, 2 auras with large range requiring Will DC 30 and Fort DC 33, immunity to all divine magic, SR 33, some elemental resistances 10-20, immunity to mind-affecting + energy drain + negative levels + polymorph + petrification, Fort +25, Ref +16, Will +18, Attack: 1 bite +35 (6d6+16+poison), 2 claws +33 (2d6+8) and tail +33 (4d6+8), improved grab and 3d6 charisma drain and constrict, Power Attack and Awesome Blow, True Seeing and nondetection, immunity to all divine divination, at-will astral projection + desecrate + detect good + greater dispel magic + poison (DC 21) + telekinesis (DC 22) + greater teleport + unhallow + unholy blight (DC 21), 3/day quickened poison (DC 21) + symbol of insanity (DC 25), veil (DC 23), 1/day scintillating pattern (DC 25).

That's tough, but not unbeatable for lv 20 wizards. Finding him is the real issue: once he's found he can be killed just by outnumbering him! Keep 2 dedicated Counterspellers and 1 dedicated "escape PC" ready to Teleport everyone out, and then beat him to death from range with Assay Spell Resistance + blasting spells. Easy fight. A single lv20 wizard willing to use Ice Assassins of himself and lots of WBL is quite capable of going it!

My favorite (and simplest) solution would be to fight it in melee inside an AMF, but it's still super deadly even without magic. That sounds immensely risky (if super cool).

Of course DP will have it fight smart and use allies and lots of gear. Then things become very difficult. Heck, we'd risk having endless games of tag where both sides hide and only fight through astral projections!
I think this goes down to one Amber sarcophogus.
 
*turns Tarrangar's scheme of saving Fire Whales from hunters into a heartless industry that harvests them for profit*

*laughs diabolically*

On a more serious note, I can't help but feel that in the end it will end up in Sultan's forces capturing whales and harvesting them somewhere where he can assure of them staying alive and captured.
He needs but to get a whim of this new way of getting a lot of profit, after all.
Or any of big whale-hunters get an in with the city, if not Sultan himself.
Or any of the Lord of efreeti.

And they have, comparatively, all the time in the universe to get it steadily and eventually way more than by killing whales.

We have found a veritable gold mine here.
And whales are dumb.

Lets enjoy the moment, as we see ourselves become that one scientist that invented "insert_invention" and then saw it used as a "insert_horrible_weapon".
:V
Which is why we should be keeping how to do it secret, that will buy us some time at least, time we can use to arm the whales, as long as the harvesters don't tattle, all others who want to perform harvesting have to research themselves, and that will take a lot of time unless you have willing subjects.

Also the Whale food and natural environment is the POF, they eat a great deal, so it's not as simple as hailing them to the city of Brass, any Whale farm would be an outpost we could attack.
Corollary to that... I like fire whales.

Also you're acting like the person who dropped a baby in the acid bath because someone told you they had swallowed a diamond. You might still get the diamond, but no one considered polite company will want to be around you afterwards.

What's next, clubbing fire seals because they secrete a valuable oil?

Edit: Or using the baby to make soup to "replenish our spell slots" as many Westerosi would have it. :V
The Efreeti are the kind of people who will do that kind of thing, but it will take them a lot of time to switch to Whale farms, and Whale farms will cost a lot more to operate than Whalers, and will be far easier to find for raiders, if the Efreeti take back control of the POF it would be a great boon for them, but with the current turmoil, such farms would mainly be great for strong pirates and raiders, who would see them as a great source of loot.

But to prevent the Efreeti doing such things, we should be focusing our own efforts on setting up our infrastructure, the sooner we get that infrastructure set up, the more money and weapons the Whales will have by the time the Efreeti notice, and so the better they will be able to fight back.
 
@Goldfish, So you like cheese.

We have a God that can lash you with DC 50 saves on a normal day.

Any way to boost ours further than we have already? Say for the sake of the argument we have several mythic tiers by that point and have been investing in a solution so that we can fight under the light of day.

Maybe since that's an arbitrary ability we could runecraft our Mindblank and dump significant resources into finally fighting off the Deity bullshit of slipping past its protections?

Mindblank, Greater @DragonParadox?
 
@Goldfish, So you like cheese.

We have a God that can lash you with DC 50 saves on a normal day.

Any way to boost ours further than we have already? Say for the sake of the argument we have several mythic tiers by that point and have been investing in a solution so that we can fight under the light of day.

Maybe since that's an arbitrary ability we could runecraft our Mindblank and dump significant resources into finally fighting off the Deity bullshit of slipping past its protections?

Mindblank, Greater @DragonParadox?

You could make something that could take a few hits from a deity before breaking but there is no way to completely god-proof yourself, not even for other gods.
 
Still the class that got me into DnD.

So flavorful, such odd and fun powers. So bad. So, so bad.

Still.

Wait. No, I was thinking of dragon shaman sorry. Why are you complaining about dragon disciple? It's a fine class.
Dragon Disciple requires you to be a decent spellcaster to enter (a bunch of levels), and then does nothing to pregress spellcasting at all. But is also doesn't really make you a good Gish either. You end up a shitty spellcaster AND a shitty melee fighter.

@Goldfish, So you like cheese.

We have a God that can lash you with DC 50 saves on a normal day.

Any way to boost ours further than we have already? Say for the sake of the argument we have several mythic tiers by that point and have been investing in a solution so that we can fight under the light of day.

Maybe since that's an arbitrary ability we could runecraft our Mindblank and dump significant resources into finally fighting off the Deity bullshit of slipping past its protections?

Mindblank, Greater @DragonParadox?
Mindblank reduces the DC to 40. A DC 40 isn't impossible, just difficult. Persistomancy ahoy!
Or maybe abuse Counterspelling if it's a spell-like ability. Strategy: Shadow of the Doom to kill the chaff, mutiple party members ready to Counterspell or Teleport away from melee, some more AoEs to hurt the chaff. Once its alone and can't escape (Counterspell its Teleports) beat it to death.

Of course right now our raw numbers are too low. The auras would kill people and we'd risk failing the CL rolls to dispel.
Oh, and of course it's too smart to end up in that situation. Things get far harder for us if we have an objective to protect or if it has mighty allies.
 
Any way to boost ours further than we have already? Say for the sake of the argument we have several mythic tiers by that point and have been investing in a solution so that we can fight under the light of day.
You could make something that could take a few hits from a deity before breaking but there is no way to completely god-proof yourself, not even for other gods.
We can attempt to make a binding contract between our Pantheon and us, having them take a part of a divine attack if we are ever put in such's path.

Will take a fuckload of sacrifices and way more connection concubine than we want, but we probably can do that, eventually.

Also, we can have Lya utilize her PRC and our finances to the max, nevermind the fact that I'm thinking about starting up her Mythic Path as one fucking with laws of reality even more than she already does.
4 bodies + timestop + money = uberstomp.

Mindblank reduces the DC to 40. A DC 40 isn't impossible, just difficult. Persistomancy ahoy!
We passed that save through persistomancy bullshit, and all the praise goes to the people who made it possible.

But it also was 'surprised' by us.
I wouldn't bet on anything lower than 50, and likely being up into 60 for a DC if it's ready.
I.e., has some gear and buffs.
 
@Goldfish, So you like cheese.

We have a God that can lash you with DC 50 saves on a normal day.

Any way to boost ours further than we have already? Say for the sake of the argument we have several mythic tiers by that point and have been investing in a solution so that we can fight under the light of day.

Maybe since that's an arbitrary ability we could runecraft our Mindblank and dump significant resources into finally fighting off the Deity bullshit of slipping past its protections?

Mindblank, Greater @DragonParadox?
Viserys has a resting Will save of 39 with his normal everyday buffs, if Channel Vigor is on the correct setting.

All he needs to push that to 50 is to use Ruin Delver's Fortune, which I've advocated for several times. With his current Charisma bonus of 11, he could push his Will save up to 50 without even needing to use a Mythic Surge.

Of course, he could also Blood Wish a Plant Body spell, which has a number of useful abilities, including immunity to Mind-Affecting Effects.
 
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