Hmm. Our Air Racers have about the same number of slots as a Medium. (Admittedly that's with souped-up engines, but I think we can assume the extra systems a space fighter require also take up volume.)

I'd guess they're probably the size of a Medium, or maybe a Heavy. EP costs seem about that range, too. Of course, they're also about as small as fightercraft get.

I think they can get away with it because they're using Star weapons, which seem to hit as hard as a weapon a size grade up.
Heavy weapons aren't automatically superior to vehicle scale weapons for anti-air.

Lorewise the two most common AA configurations are either a ton of rapid fire heavy scale weapons (Firestorm, Hydra, Wyvern, etc) or a single/few highly accurate and hard hitting vehicle scale weapon (Manticore, Whirlwind, Hunter).

A couple of the Bright Eagle refit proposals have included at least one Fatesever cannon as part of it's armaments which would fit the latter example.

Personally I'm in favor of a Bright Eagle refit with a single Fatesever and then 2 Vehicle scale Missile launchers with a mix of anti-personnel and and anti-vehicle missiles.

Those AA vehicles are used to shoot down aircraft, not the vastly larger void strike craft
Compare the sixth meter long Fury Interceptor to the eleven meter long Lightning Air Superiority Fighter.
 
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They can get away with it because they're using Star weapons, which seem to hit as hard as a weapon a size grade up.
Huh, actually.

Per Lexicanum, the Firestorm saw use in the Baran War, where the wraithgates weren't large enough for fighters. But were large enough for Firestorm Tanks.

That's "air superiority fighters," not void superiority, so I must be underestimating how big the Air Racers are.
 
I would really prefer a light grav vehicle iteration that doesn't make it have less integrated weapon slots then a grav barge. Plus having vehicle slots can be more somewhat flexible then trying to refund a bunch of smaller weapon slots.

Also one question as I'm confused do the modifications except for the grav engine giving extra slots cost slots?
The firestorm is a nice thing to mention because it gives us somewhat of a start for our own AA tank, and that thing even doubles as a very good anti infantry vehicle by the looks of it.
The closest thing we have with the Firestorm is the Needlestorm infantry fighting vehicle but it uses exotics and hasn't been upgraded to include any defensive systems. It is possible to replace the Fateshredder with its equivalent of three heavy needlers + a additional heavy weapon plus holofield and grav-shield.
 
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Had to step out for a bit, I think the general thrust I got was "Swap out the Heavies for a third Vehicle mount", and yeah, I can see the logic behind it, so I did it.

[ ] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting Vehicles Continued
-[ ]Jetbike Iteration

--[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine
--[ ] Improved Armor
--[ ] Suit-Link System
--[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 3 Systems
-[ ] Light Grav-Vehicle Iteration
--[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine
---[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine x2
--[ ] Smoke Grenade Pods
--[ ] Light Armor
--[ ] Fighting Compartment
--[ ] Armored Engine Cowlings
--[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 23 Systems
-[ ] Air Racer Iteration
--[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[ ] Further Improve Engine Size
---[ ] Further Improve Engine Size x2
--[ ] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 9 Systems
-[ ] Novel Chassis Design
--[ ] Medium

Was there anything else people suggested that I might have missed?
 
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I really think smoke grenades are redundant with a Holofield.

We should get medium armour and a refractor field on the upgraded medium chassis, to maximise survivability.

And the new hull we design should be heavy. We're already upgrading a medium chassis. We don't need two.

I would really prefer a light grav vehicle iteration that doesn't make it have less integrated weapon slots then a grav barge. Plus having vehicle slots can be more somewhat flexible then trying to refund a bunch of smaller weapon slots.

Vehicle weapons slots prevent a vehicle being used as an organic transport unless they're inefficiently refunded.

As we'll have a custom built vehicle for combat; hopefully that will fill our vehicle weapon a lot needs.

Ideally a heavy chassis, as we don't have something in that weight class, so we can get something with enough weapons to compensate with not using exotics anymore.

Also one question as I'm confused do the modifications except for the grav engine giving extra slots cost slots?

No, it doesn't appear so. It just costs EP.
 
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Hrm. Thinking about it, is the extra ranged gun worth more than the Basic Refractor Fields? These are vehicles which are actually going to show up in times and places where a lot of infantry are going to shoot at them, after all, and reduced damage from vehicle-scale Lasweapons isn't actually nothing.

Honestly the jetbike would benefit most from them.
 
Those AA vehicles are used to shoot down aircraft, not the vastly larger void strike craft
Compare the sixth meter long Fury Interceptor to the eleven meter long Lightning Air Superiority Fighter.
Those void strike craft are aircraft, according to the game mechanics.
The Crossbow is a specialized interceptor craft used by Zahr-Tann. Each is equipped with a pair of vehicle-grade Lascannons and four heavy missile launchers, a flare shield, and a holo-field for defense. The Pilot wears a Forgeguard Warsuit and is equipped with an Impact Blade, Combi-Grave Serpentia, and a Flare Shield of their own in the event they are shot down, as they are often used to support ground operations, in wing-pairs.
As we see here, where vehicle grade weapons are perfectly good enough for the militant craft world.

Point defense are also vehicle based, while superheavy close-in are more of a compromise between being able to target strike craft with moderate effectiveness while being able to damage actual warships at close range.

These facts have been covered extensively in discussion previously.
 
Those AA vehicles are used to shoot down aircraft, not the vastly larger void strike craft
Compare the sixth meter long Fury Interceptor to the eleven meter long Lightning Air Superiority Fighter.
While the Fury is larger it probably isn't any more well armored than a Lightning since they both use Lascannons as their primary weapon.

While the greater size of the Fury should increase it's ability to absorb damage I suspect that any weapon that can hurt a Lightning will be able to deal damage to a Fury.
Fury

Lightning
Note in the picture that the Lascannons on both the Lightning and Fury are comparable in size based on scaling to the humans in the images though the Fury does carry significantly more weapons.
 
-[ ] Light Grav-Vehicle Iteration
--[ ] Smoke Grenade Pods
Does a Vehicle Holofield not make the Smoke Grenade Pods redundant, considering the Holofield can already just mimic smoke clouds around the vehicle? And I don't think we'd be fielding one of these without a Holofield, right? Especially if we're going to give it Light Armour not Medium, we might want the Basic Refractor Field Generator instead of the grenades.
 
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Honestly the jetbike would benefit most from them.
Quite possibly, yeah. I've been looking at the builds we could make using a Grav Shield, but the thing is, Grav Shields are expensive for the number of guns a Jetbike is carrying.

I think I might go for something like this design instead of grabbing that extra slot:

[ ] Plan Crystal Sting
-[ ][Jetbike] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Jetbike] Suit-Link System
-[ ][Jetbike] Improved Armor
-[ ][Jetbike] 1x Heavy Weapon slot, 2x System Slots

If it turns out the Suit-Link is good enough that we don't need a holo-field, I'm sure we can find other stuff to fill those slots. Really fancy sensors, maybe, or the mine droppers that were suggested.

Admittedly, this passes up the option to have paired heavy weapons. But as we've seen, that slot conversion is pretty pricey for a Jetbike, so we should probably build that in up front if we want to do it.
 
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While the Fury is larger it probably isn't any more well armored than a Lightning since they both use Lascannons as their primary weapon.

While the greater size of the Fury should increase its ability to absorb damage I suspect that any weapon that can hurt a Lightning will be able to deal damage to a Fury.

Fury

Lightning
Note in the picture that the Lascannons on both the Lightning and Fury are comparable in size based on scaling to the humans in the images though the Fury does carry significantly more weapons.

I think the Fury uses anti-starship missiles as its main weapon. Lascannons are secondary.

I also think that's not a Fury though. It doesn't look long enough.

Furys are the size of jumbo jets.

Those void strike craft are aircraft, according to the game mechanics.

How do you know? Just as we don't have titans on the design page yet, we may not have 'true' void strike craft either, just hybrid aircraft.

Basically, we may have equivalents of the Vampire Raider, which is the Eldar atmospheric fighter, but not of the Darkstar, which is their void fighter.
 
Had to step out for a bit, I think the general thrust I got was "Swap out the Heavies for a third Vehicle mount", and yeah, I can see the logic behind it, so I did it.
-[ ] Air Racer Iteration
--[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[ ] Further Improve Engine Size
--[ ] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 8 Systems
Was there anything else people suggested that I might have missed?
A second "Further Improve Engine Size" would help with future proofing the design since with only 8 unused System slots there is no room for anything else if we go for a 2x Grav-Shield + Holo-Field combo (alternatively if our Conversion Fields are 4 Slots apiece since they are noted for being bulky then we could sub in one Grav-Shield for a Conversion Field for better coverage against AoE and guided weapons).

Cost wise we're already dealing with a vehicle that will cost several hundred EP at a minimum so an extra ~4EP isn't much of an increase.
 
Apparently the reduction in acceleration would actually matter in this case, and we're building a mediumweight MBT chassis anyway, so keeping this as a lightly armored, highly agile workhorse feels like a good way to go.
That makes sense, still though, I think the extra armour could be worth the reduction in speed
 
That makes sense, still though, I think the extra armour could be worth the reduction in speed

We're already taking a speed hit from the engine cowling, I think its best protection in this case would simply be to avoid getting stuck in.

The question is if we want smoke generators to cover for anyone who isn't in VG, or if we want to give it a grenade launcher or a refractor field to discourage small arms?
 
A thought about medium armour for the upgraded grav tank.

There's one very common cause of damage to tanks and other armoured vehicle that all our shield technology does nothing to defend against.

And that's simply bashing into things. Whether that be walls, other vehicles, 'controlled flight into terrain' or sufficiently armoured people, our grav-tanks are going to get into crashes.

And I think armour will help them survive it.

Not only that, but the additional survivability from having armour may mean it pays for itself in terms of needing less repair and replacement.

Lastly, having heavier armour means that the grav rank will be better at one of the things APCs are good at, acting as mobile cover for infantry against heavy volumes of lighter fire.

In some cases you want the tank to be hit because it can soak up fire that more lightly armoured infantry can't. In those cases the speed and holofield of the grav tank can't be used to avoid fire, as that would be counterproductive.

I took it off though?

I think he missed a 'not' based on the rest of the post.

Apparently the reduction in acceleration would actually matter in this case, and we're building a mediumweight MBT chassis anyway, so keeping this as a lightly armored, highly agile workhorse feels like a good way to go.

Why would we want to make a medium weight MBT when we could build a heavy one and open a new category of vehicle weight?

I think that's an error in itself, separate to under-armouring an APC.
 
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I feel like this is a bit foolish, but I'm quite tempted to try and salvage (ie: raid) a tomb world and try and reverse engineer some Oghyr tech (especially their Blackstone tech).
 
There's one very common cause of damage to tanks and other armoured vehicle that all our shield technology does nothing to defend against.
Yeah.

Also, mines, having buildings or bridges dropped on top, shrapnel... there's very good reasons to want all the armor we can get. Especially since medium armor hits maneuverability and accelleration, not top speed.
 
How do you know? Just as we don't have titans on the design page yet, we may not have 'true' void strike craft either, just hybrid aircraft.
Because the bright eagle is listed as a strike craft and a vehicle. Because all of Zahr-Tann's strike craft are listed with their other vehicles rather than being separated into their own list or included in the naval vessel list instead. You know, from the relevant info and thread posts.

--[ ] Smoke Grenade Pods
These are somewhat redundant with holofields. You'd be better off grabbing grenades for the possibility we design a model who's guns are intended more for anti power armor/light vehicle work than dealing with nearby infantry.
A second "Further Improve Engine Size" would help with future proofing the design since with only 8 unused System slots there is no room for anything else if we go for a 2x Grav-Shield + Holo-Field combo (alternatively if our Conversion Fields are 4 Slots apiece since they are noted for being bulky then we could sub in one Grav-Shield for a Conversion Field for better coverage against AoE and guided weapons).

Cost wise we're already dealing with a vehicle that will cost several hundred EP at a minimum so an extra ~4EP isn't much of an increase.
Agreed. The extra slot could come in handy either way. Either we can use it to squeeze in a conversion field or we go with a model with 3 vehicle and 1 heavy weapon slot for the holo field + 2 grav shields model.
We're already taking a speed hit from the engine cowling, I think its best protection in this case would simply be to avoid getting stuck in.

The question is if we want smoke generators to cover for anyone who isn't in VG, or if we want to give it a grenade launcher or a refractor field to discourage small arms?
As above I support grenade launchers for anti-personnel aoe for if our heavy weapon is designed more for power armored foes rather than clearing out concentrations of light or medium infantry.
 
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Vehicle weapons slots prevent a vehicle being used as an organic transport unless they're inefficiently refunded.
Not actually correct. You can simply elect to not put anything in the slot, which incurs no additional cost for removal and applies no restriction on how it is used.
What it can potentially have doesn't matter. Only what it does have.
 
Because the bright eagle is listed as a strike craft and a vehicle. Because all of Zahr-Tann's strike craft are listed with their other vehicles rather than being separated into their own list or included in the naval vessel list instead. You know, from the relevant info and thread posts.

Zahr-Tann also has no titans and no superheavies despite us being directly told that having some way of dealing with super-heavies was required, sorry 'recommended' in the first vehicle design post.

Just because Zahr-Tann doesn't have something doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it also doesn't mean it's not needed.

As above I support grenade launchers for anti-personnel aoe for if our heavy weapon is designed more for power armored foes rather than clearing out concentrations of light or medium infantry.

A Sunblaster cannon would do both. They're AoE weapons that can kill light, medium, or power armoured infantry, if they're like regular plasma cannons. I don't see a need for grenade launchers here.

Not actually correct. You can simply elect to not put anything in the slot, which incurs no additional cost for removal and applies no restriction on how it is used.
What it can potentially have doesn't matter. Only what it does have.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.
 
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