If we look at our existing Light Cruiser design that we're probably going to be refitting:

• 2x Las-Lance Weapon Batteries
• 1x Heavy Las-Lance
• 2x Lascannon Point Defense Weapon Batteries
• 2x Æthersails

I think we're better off keeping the existing armament as much as possible and just adding holofields and a grav shield, to make it as fast as possible to refit.
4 las-lances plus 1 heavy las-lance is probably worse than the War Ketch's armaments given the stated performance gap between Starlances and generic las-weapons of similar size not to mention the Fatetwisters general BS.

I'd say either ditch the regular las-lance's for Suncannons so it's got better stopping power (we chose extra power during the research vote) or go for a high performance design with a mixture of Grav-Amplifiers and Grav-Imploders (QM has said they synergize very well) so that it can hit way harder.

The Suncannons are actually the same price as the las-lance (both 5NEP) thanks to us choosing the lowered cost option when researching them and while the Grav-Weapons would cost a decent bit more (Amps 8/13 Imps 6/14) given how expensive they are and the fact that they are supposed to synergize they should allow our new Caravels to hit above their weight class almost as well as if we gave them exotic weapons.
Amplifiers are kinda meh by themselves in that role, but the real magic is in Imploders and Amplifiers in pairs. But, you know, that's spensy, and you could have "make flack wall with exploding black holes" instead for a similar price.
We've got a ton of Battle Caravel hulls (20 active, 52 damaged) and turning them all into capable combatants would greatly increase the potency of our fleets.
 
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If we look at our existing Light Cruiser design that we're probably going to be refitting:

• 2x Las-Lance Weapon Batteries
• 1x Heavy Las-Lance
• 2x Lascannon Point Defense Weapon Batteries
• 2x Æthersails

I think we're better off keeping the existing armament as much as possible and just adding holofields and a grav shield, to make it as fast as possible to refit.
I don't know replacing the las batteries with spike batteries at least would probably be an improvement, though plasma may be better and don't forget that there are two empty navel slots on it's current set-up.

Something like:

-3X suncannon batteries
-1X fusion mortar battery
-1X Graviton Thruster Lance
-2X Æthersail
-2X Vibration Point Defense Weapon Batteries
-1X Holo-Field
-1X Grav-Shield
 
Generally, I think it's best to get as much of the research out of the way ASAP, so we have a better idea what our options are. THat helps prevent buyers regret and a desire to rework later.
should probably build grand academy next turn then with two Forge of Vaul actions on it, for extra seeker AP then. it would let us squeeze in a bit extra.

I think we're better off keeping the existing armament as much as possible and just adding holofields and a grav shield, to make it as fast as possible to refit.
we'll see what happens. depending on the knock on effects of centralizing our stewardship, building a shrine of Khane, and the Aeldmoot, we may not end up building one until turn 6, or making contact with a world with something worthwhile. too be honest I'm a little interested in Haywire capital ship weapon, for disabling other capital ships.
 
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I'd say either ditch the regular las-lance's for Suncannons so it's got better stopping power or go for a high performance design with a mixture of Grav-Amplifiers and Grav-Imploders (QM has said they synergize very well) so that it can hit way harder.
The problem with the gravy-gun ship (I put up a design for one before) is that it's relatively short ranged, and the Caravel turns out to be a really inappropriate ship to try and turn into a tank.

That's why I'm suggesting torpedoes instead.
 
4 las-lances plus 1 heavy las-lance is probably worse than the War Ketch's armaments given the stated performance gap between Starlances and generic las-weapons of similar size not to mention the Fatetwisters general BS.

I'd say either ditch the regular las-lance's for Suncannons so it's got better stopping power (we chose extra power during the research vote) or go for a high performance design with a mixture of Grav-Amplifiers and Grav-Imploders (QM has said they synergize very well) so that it can hit way harder.

The Suncannons are actually the same price as the las-lance (both 5NEP) thanks to us choosing the lowered cost option when researching them and while the Grav-Weapons would cost a decent bit more (Amps 8/13 Imps 6/14) given how expensive they are and the fact that they are supposed to synergize they should allow our new Caravels to hit above their weight class almost as well as if we gave them exotic weapons.

We've got a ton of Battle Caravel hulls (20 active, 52 damaged) and turning them all into capable combatants would greatly increase the potency of our fleets.

This is true, but my thought was that if the refit was truly very minimal we could very rapidly make them much more useful in the short to medium term. In the future we could make a second design and refit them again, but we have so many damaged or very fragile ones to refit making it very cheap might get us more band for our buck.

It might be better to have ten refitted laser Caravels rather than a couple of more upgraded Caravels.

I don't know replacing the las batteries with spike batteries at least would probably be an improvement, though plasma may be better and don't forget that there are two empty navel slots on it's current set-up.

Something like:

-3X suncannon batteries
-1X fusion mortar battery
-1X Graviton Thruster Lance
-2X Æthersail
-2X Vibration Point Defense Weapon Batteries
-1X Holo-Field
-1X Grav-Shield

Good point about the empty slots. Naval suncannons do look interesting, but I'm not sure about the Fusion Mortar on a Caravel.

should probably build grand academy next turn then with two Forge of Vaul actions on it, for extra seeker AP then. it would let us squeeze in a bit extra.


we'll see what happens. depending on the knock on effects of centralizing our stewardship, building a shrine of Khane, and the Aeldmoot, we may not end up building one until turn 6, or making contact with a world with something worthwhile. too be honest I'm a little interested in Haywire capital ship weapon, for disabling other capital ships.

I think it depends on how much Seeker research there is next turn and what it looks like, as we're doing a fair amount this turn. We've a lot of Bonesinger research built up, and I think I'd like to clear a lot of that out, as it's likely to give us options we're more likely to deploy widely as a standard part of a general refit, while Seeker research seems more likely to give more specialist weapons.

The problem with the gravy-gun ship (I put up a design for one before) is that it's relatively short ranged, and the Caravel turns out to be a really inappropriate ship to try and turn into a tank.

That's why I'm suggesting torpedoes instead.

The challenge I see with torpedoes is that if BFG is a guide they generally requires more complex tactics, such as needing to be coordinated with fighter cover to prevent them being intercepted, and then we get into needing carriers and upgraded fighters, and our fighter pilots may not be very good....
 
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Yeah, I think a modernized Caravel should be a Torpedo Cruiser with maybe a modest strike wing, but definitely at least Torpedoes. Maybe a Sunblaster based arsenal because it's both cheap and effective at that scale.
 
The problem with the gravy-gun ship (I put up a design for one before) is that it's relatively short ranged, and the Caravel turns out to be a really inappropriate ship to try and turn into a tank.

That's why I'm suggesting torpedoes instead.
Grav-Weapons that are short ranged are outright called so in their description.

For example Grav-Thrusters overall aren't described as short range but the small arms ones are specifically described as short ranged while the bigger ones are not:
Graviton Thrusters are some of the most effective armor-piercing weapons in existence, their signature vantablack beams easily perforating almost any material with effectively no resistance. While potent, the individual beams are relatively thin—the standard pistol and rifle sized weapons being perhaps the diameter of a pencil—and so they are most effective when the user can target known weaknesses with high accuracy.
Pistol:
These highly advanced weapons fire thin beams of absolute blackness which can penetrate most materials as if they don't even exist, though their range is relatively short.
Rifle:
Exotic gravity weapons that fire distinctive black beams of gravetic force that can punch through nearly anything without resistance, Graviton Thrusters are the terror of any armored unit with known weakpoints—their beams may be thin and their range limited, but very, very few materials can resist these weapons at all.
Heavy Scale and Up:
Unlike smaller graviton-thruster weaponry, Graviton Thruster Lances have significantly less limited range, being comparable to the average range of other energy weapons of similar scale—this makes these rare and exotic devices extremely dangerous even in relatively small numbers.
Meanwhile if they are all short ranged they are specifically stated to be so like with Sheers:
Powerful weapons which emit ultra-sharp 'blades' of gravetic force, Graviton Sheer weapons can easily slice apart anything that is foolish enough to allow one into range—for their short effective range is their critical weakness.
Neither Amplifiers or Imploders were noted to be short ranged in their descriptions with the closest being Naval scale Imploders being described as capable of medium or short ranges but not long. Note how it doesn't say the smaller ones have worse range.
Massively scaled-up versions of their lesser cousins, Macro-Imploders are gigantic grav-weapons designed to be used against voidcraft at short and medium ranges.
Anyways, two Caravel ideas one budget one not:

[] Budget Suncannon Build (4W 1HW 8S 49NEP):
-[] 4x Suncannons (20NEP) 4 Weapon slots
-[] 1x Heavy Las-Lance (8NEP) 1 Heavy Weapon slot
-[] Holo-Field (9NEP) 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shields (12NEP) 2 System slots
-[] 3 Aethersails (IDK) 3 System slots
-[] 2x PD or 1x CIWB (IDK) 2 System slots

[] Grav Caravel (4W 1HW 8S 58NEP):
-[] 4x Imploders (24NEP) 4 Weapon slots
-[] 1x Heavy Amplifier (13NEP) 1 Heavy Weapon slot
-[] Holo-Field (9NEP) 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shields (12NEP) 2 System slots
-[] 3 Aethersails (IDK) 3 System slots
-[] 2x PD or 1x CIWB (IDK) 2 System slots

The idea is the Big Amplifier slaps a target with a hefty increase in Gravity and then the Imploders leverage the increased gravity to cause the target to implode harder. The reverse with 1 heavy Imploder and 4 Amplifiers costs way more since regular Amplifiers are 8NEP apiece.
 
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I'm not making plans for a ship based on what we have now, I'd be taking torpedoes I think for a modernized Caravel. But honestly, I think our actual first New Build Light Cruiser should be based off the Dhow Hull--Light Cruisers are best as support ships I think, rather than the gunline, and that's the one with the most System Slots.

Similarly,, in the long run, we should probably want to use Galleon-type hulls for our new build Battleships, because honestly, more than one Special Weapon is probably overkill, but the extra slots and Heavy Weapon Batteries give us a lot of options with them.
 
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I wouldn't build a Torpedo Cruiser, I think, until we've had chance to redesign our fighters and gone further down the torpedo research tree.

I think a Dhow Hull based torpedo cruiser is a good idea, but for our Caravel conversions we should go for something simpler and quicker to get into deployment.

Meanwhile if they are all short ranged they are specifically stated to be so like with Sheers:

I wonder if Graviton Shear CIWS/Point Defences are a thing. They sound like they'd be pretty good if they were.
 
We will need to design a fighter craft if we refit it to be a carrier.

Doesn't need to be a carrier, Torpedo Light Cruiser with a Suncannon based armament should have exceptional striking power at range and up close, and very good mobility to boot, and then we convert our current Caravels to the new model. When time allows, we do a new-build Dhow-based support ship that does serve as a Carrier.
 
I wonder if Graviton Shear CIWS/Point Defences are a thing. They sound like they'd be pretty good if they were.
Well since sheer weapons can go up to navel scale I would assume that they can be used in those rolls though I do wonder which is better for it sheer, vibration or imploder/amplifier-combi.
 
Doesn't need to be a carrier, Torpedo Light Cruiser with a Suncannon based armament should have exceptional striking power at range and up close, and very good mobility to boot, and then we convert our current Caravels to the new model. When time allows, we do a new-build Dhow-based support ship that does serve as a Carrier.

But we need some carriers deploying fieldable fighter designs if we're using torpedoes, as the torpedoes will need fighter escorts, I think.

Well since sheer weapons can go up to navel scale I would assume that they can be used in those rolls though I do wonder which is better for it sheer, vibration or imploder/amplifier-combi.

I hope the answer's not 'try it and find out', as that's painful on a naval scale. I expect shear would be better at chaopping apart bombers and, particularly, torpedoes than the other two.
 
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985.M29 | Turn 4 | Seer Results
"Master, are you sure you should be doing th-"
"Nonsense, Mireal! It will take more than a little bit of backlash from that meddlesome pigeon to truly-"
"A little bit‽ Master, that bolt threw you into the wall-!"
"As I said, a little bit of backlash. Have some faith in your old master not to repeat his mistakes, young Mireal, and note that I have put in a warding-circle!"
"Anyway. Where was I- ahhh, yes."​
⎍⎏⍹⍢⏃¥ FLZ-ASH ¥⏃⍢⍹⎏⎍
"Ha! Take that, you mange-ridden featherduster!"
A shattered mirror shows
-An Orkish ship and its bevy of escorts close in on a hapless world where seen are the ruins of great plantations, effortlessly swatting aside the small flotilla of half-wrecked vessels that make a doomed effort to stop them, a rough Orkish voice bellowing in laugher—"We'z eatin' good tanight, ladz!"- -a battered Killkrooza flees from a reaching shadow, only for a dozen Orkish vessels to breach into reality, guns blazing; the shadow recoils from the thundering guns—"Pick yer gobs up an' kill dat fing already ya grots!"-
-Glittering golden stars reach out for the burning remains of an Orkish fleet; upon the bridge of the largest a massive Ork stares death in the face, scowling—"I knew I shoulda neffer taken dis job-"--A ramshackle station drifts, hidden in moonshadow and dust, above a modest spiderweb of glittering lights—"'ome again, 'ome again, jigg'te jig-"-


Please Stand By…



A/n: It looks like there isn't anything that actually needs a vote here until the Special Event, so you are going to be getting these as I finish them.
 
But we need some carriers deploying fieldable fighter designs if we're using torpedoes, as the torpedoes will need fighter escorts, I think.

We do, but Torpedoes shouldn't need a complete rebuild to fit new ones in because the core functionality is fixed--the only difference is what munitions a given ship has access to, and very few forces in 40K make heavy use of Strike Craft. Everyone does it at least a little bit, but the only ones who really go nuts on it are Tyranids, and they're thousands of years down the line.

EDIT: Beaten by the Doot. @Mechanis , does this mean we can pass the intel to our hunting party which we've reinforced, and they should hopefully finish the job this turn?
 
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And is currently mounting very expensive exotic weapons, and a bomb bay which isn't bad, but not really appropriate for what we probably want to be a superiority fighter.

(The starlances cost 100 EP each. Never-mind the starcrystal. That's just... ow.)
We are currently using it as a combined fighter/bomber role. Ideally we should probably split the design up but thinking about it...

What do we even use for bombs? Plus unfortunately I don't think we know what the other details are for the bomb bay.

Besides that we should probably at the very least also eventually create some kind of shuttle design given that Zahr-Tann has one for boarding parties and last minute transport across areas without webway access. As a aside this poses the question if we would need to eventually create a shuttle big enough to house our vehicles?
 
And is currently mounting very expensive exotic weapons, and a bomb bay which isn't bad, but not really appropriate for what we probably want to be a superiority fighter.

(The starlances cost 100 EP each. Never-mind the starcrystal. That's just... ow.)
Those are naval Starlances, the Bright Eagle uses vehicle scale ones which are 20 apiece, you can find the description in the "Small craft" section of the Starship dropdown.
Bright Eagle Fighter-bomber
Developed just prior to the Fall, the Bright Eagle carries two vehicle grade Starlances and a pair of heavy Lascannons. The craft is also fitted with a bomb bay, able to serve as a light bomber in addition to its role as a fightercraft. Bright Eagles may also be attached to ground forces detachments as Special Units, where they operate as a wing-pair.
Equipment:
• 2 Starlance (Vehicle)
• 2 Lascannon (Heavy)
• 1 Bomb Bay
Cost:
• 469 (1 Fighter)
• 2,814 (Squadron of 6)
Special Resource Requirement:
• 40 Starcrystals (1 Fighter)
• 240 Starcrystals (Squadron of 6)
Still though 40 Starcrystals per Bright Eagle kinda sucks.

I had a post covering this before but each of our 12 Combat Brigs has 3 squadrons each with 6 of these things. That's 12*3*6=216 Bright Eagles with a whopping 8640 Starcrystals sunk into them.
 
We do, but Torpedoes shouldn't need a complete rebuild to fit new ones in because the core functionality is fixed--the only difference is what munitions a given ship has access to, and very few forces in 40K make heavy[/u] use of Strike Craft. Everyone does it at least a little bit, but the only ones who really go nuts on it are Tyranids, and they're thousands of years down the line.

The challenge I see is that our only current small craft designs, is, well, terribly unsuitable for the Post-Fall era. Look at it:

• 2 Starlance (Vehicle)
• 2 Lascannon (Heavy)
• 1 Bomb Bay

It's a tremendously expensive fighter-bomber with literally no defences. We'd need to design and deploy a new one at enough scale before torpedoes are really viable. Orks make enough use of strike craft to have fighter screens to defend their ships from unescorted torpedoes.

There's also a degree of... if the other guy has strike craft, I think we'd prefer them to be hunting our torpedoes than wrecking sails.

Enemy fighters can't, I think, harm capital ships. Enemy bombers do that.
 
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The challenge I see is that our only current small craft designs, is, well, terribly unsuitable for the Post-Fall era. Look at it:

• 2 Starlance (Vehicle)
• 2 Lascannon (Heavy)
• 1 Bomb Bay

It's a tremendously expensive fighter-bomber with literally no defences. We'd need to design and deploy a new one at enough scale before torpedoes are really viable. Orks make enough use of strike craft to have fighter screens to defend their ships from unescorted torpedoes.

It's on the list, we will get to it--probably sooner rather than later TBH.

But I am definitely not rocking a Starlance equipped Strike Craft, that's gross overkill. Probably be using Plasma weapons for them, with the bomber using a bombard to do bombing runs with. Alternately, we might go with a "Direct Fire" bomber equipped with Gravity Shear or PSPs.
 
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