Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Because once again, we don't even know what we don't know >_<
EDIT: And now we know! Confirmed as non-viable!
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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
Because once again, we don't even know what we don't know >_<
EDIT: And now we know! Confirmed as non-viable!
grimely
Twink Death Sufferer
Alright, well, thank you for replying with a logic that I can follow. I suppose it does make sense that their solution would be to just tell the Ishari to go bunk up, which would kill them considering that they're bound to their trees.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
That seems fair. Following that guideline (and ignoring infantry typing which is admittedly obviously very important) we could break this down something like:
Light Skirmish Detachment
30 infantry on attached transport speeders (6/speeder)
24 jetbikes
1 speeder-with-big-gun
Medium Skirmish Detachment
30 infantry on attached transport speeders (6/speeder)
12 jetbikes
6 heavy jetbikes
2 speeder-with-big-gun
Light detachment
60 infantry
6 jetbikes
Line detachment
48 infantry on attached Mirages (12/Mirage)
6 jetbikes
1 speeder-with-big-gun
Assault detachment
48 infantry on attached Mirages (12/Mirage)
6 heavy jetbikes
4 speeder-with-big-gun
Heavy detachment
60 infantry
6 heavy jetbikes
2 light tanks
Armor detachment
24 infantry on attached Mirages (12/Mirage)
6 jetbikes
6 heavy jetbikes
2 speeder-with-big-gun
2 light tanks
1 heavy tank
Opinions?
Thing is that those forces are, by definition, loaned to us. We can't expect them to stick around forever, lest our allies grow resentful and stop being our allies. Zahr-Tann's generosity has ensured that our infantry needs are covered in the short term, and I believe it is logical to use the breathing room they have given us to start setting up for the longer term. The Shrine of Khaine is a good start, but it's just that, a start. We also need to build wargear for our new soldiers to use. Much of our designs will likely need to be revised, but Needlers and Wraithweave are likely to still be included in our TO&E in some capacity.
For the whole artillery/mortar conversation, I think missiles (once we unlock and refine them) would make an excellent weapons platform for that purpose.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Speaking of this specific issues.
Will we need to spend AP to create the biobubbles for the forests on arrival, or is that small enough to be handled in the background?
We don't need them forever. We'll have them for long enough that I think one or two turns of missing slow drip production of wargear will be neither here not there.
As I keep saying, this isn't a question about never building infantry armour. It's about the opportunity cost. I think having very, very slightly fewer infantry available in the short to medium term is well worth it to get a Sword of Vaul earlier and to have one of our allies fleet repaired sooner so they're more capable of destroying our enemies and protecting, themselves, our other allies, and us.
I think we're probably better off in pure production terms getting the Sword of Vaul and stronger allied fleets earlier and using it to go and salvage a bunch of abandoned production infrastructure in the extra turns we have it.
And if production facilities are that important, other people should be voting to send salvage missions to the true stars rather than having massive amounts of our forces standing around doing nothing.
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I think we probably want a few elite picks scattered through at least the heavier detachments - squads of snipers with Fateseeker Rifles, mortar squads with plasma bombards, some melee assault troop of some kind. Are you just including those as part of the general infantry blocks?
Specifics will depend on what squads we rationalize, of course.
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
That's handled below abstraction, yes. It's not like that kind of thing is actually complicated (for you. People who aren't Eldar, well, sucks to be them dunnit?)
- Pronouns
- Reader
are we really so certain the Ithilmar won't have a better option that we switch too in a handful of turns? weren't we only planning to make a single factory to get an idea of output before we started building for long-term?
feels a bit excessive. your easily fielding ten times the ship tonnage we've ever needed in previous turns.
overall, this plan focuses on building up our personal army in spite of our recently acquired supplementary forces, and despite the fact that the Aeldmoot is a unique opportunity to demonstrate why we are allies worth having to the craft and exodite worlds in attendance. this is our chance to demonstrate how we are a industrial powerhouse willing to help other craft worlds recover from the apocalypse, and gain allies for that, and we should exploit it.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Oh, yeah.
Will we get an option to convert our first draft of rationalized infantry to Elites and just do a spread of Troops once we get our Shrine online and presumably get some advisors to unfuck our planning?
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
I would rather have Mesons, but I'm also quite aware that votes to open up research lines tend to be followed by much more AP-intensive votes to follow up on those research lines, so I don't mind cracking open only one of our two major research lines right now in the hopes that we'll be able to pay for everything it has to offer instead of getting only most of it like we did for plasma and grav since we were doing them at the same time.
I was intending "infantry" in this context to cover either troops or elite in whatever combination we later decide is optimal, yeah. HQ as well. I guess we could potentially have some of our elite picks be non-infantry, now that you bring it up, but I had sort of assumed they were interchangeable for purposes of this organization scheme- presumably, line infantry would be different types than assault infantry and so forth, with those changes carrying over to the elites as well as the troops.
Likewise all of the "speeder-with-big-gun" options could be a Cloudburst like we've already designed, or they could be an artillery speeder with a fusion mortar on it, or go all out with the really big gun by using a vehicular Starlance. Not that particular for organizational purposes, it's just a speeder with big guns.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We could have left one for the next turn, IIRC?
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Yeah, but that would have involved convincing the entire voting base to reach for less shiny things in the near term on the promise that they'd get more shiny things in the medium term. That's difficult at the best of times, all the more so when the vote is tangled together with a dozen other important decisions like every turn vote.
Given that sending out allied armies and navies is free, if people really think production infrastructure is important, I think it's much more efficient to go out and try to salvage some, rather than spend our precious AP on it, as that's a much more precious resource with a much higher opportunity cost.
As our leaders were senior priests of Vaul, they should know which of the True Stars had planets with significant industry orbiting them, and we should have a strong enough military to start salvaging it.
This is a region we need to go this turn anyway for the Aeldarmoot, so it would make sense to send a strong enough force to gather up infrastructure from the region seeing as we need to find a route there anyway. Recovering a bunch of exotic reagent forges, whatever pre-fall arsenals survive, and general industrial infrastructure should be well worth it.
As our leaders were senior priests of Vaul, they should know which of the True Stars had planets with significant industry orbiting them, and we should have a strong enough military to start salvaging it.
This is a region we need to go this turn anyway for the Aeldarmoot, so it would make sense to send a strong enough force to gather up infrastructure from the region seeing as we need to find a route there anyway. Recovering a bunch of exotic reagent forges, whatever pre-fall arsenals survive, and general industrial infrastructure should be well worth it.
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I think I'll be voting for this one, with approval to Alectai. I see logic in Brigantine foundry as a testbed, but I vastly prefer VG foundry on the basis that eventually we will want to use it as a general-purpose infantry armour, or at least that seems to be the plan for now. Since we don't know if either can be produced in sufficient quantity for a solid rearming when our new detachments are ready, I believe in more futureproofing.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We can't afford it on the scale that we'll apparently need in the long run as Standard Infantry Gear. If a Minor Craftworld--the smallest kind mind you--has sent us 60 rationalized Warhosts, and this is only a third of their total muster.
I'd much rather have a large reserve of Brigantine when the hammer drops.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Why are you sending the entirety of Zahr-Tan's fleet assigned to us away from the Craftworld? You leave us the Transport Fleet I guess, but the whole point of focusing on our production infrastructure this turn was because we didn't need to worry about defending ourselves with them here.
Just sending one of the Heavy Fleets with the 2 Battle Hosts and the War Ketches will be fine.
My issue is that while our ground forces are pretty terrible, our navy is in fairly good shape. Our fleets are more than sufficient for our current needs, so adding more to them isn't that much of a priority for me. I don't even know what we'd do with a Sword of Vaul if we got one next turn.
We don't actually need to go salvaging in the True Stars for that. I'm pretty confident we've got plenty of production infrastructure locally since we took Plentiful Industry. Unfortunately, said infrastructure needs to be retooled to work in the post-apocalyptic landscape it's in. That's presumably what we need the Boneseer AP for, which means that we can't get free functional factories like that.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
My understanding is the opposite. Zhar-Tann is our ally and is following our lead. These forces represent their commitment to our relationship and to following our lead as the larger and much more populous craftworld.
Even if by comparison our military is a soggy paper bag. They will remain seconded to us for as long as our relationship remains cordial.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I noticed that's why I've removed the transport fleet from my plan.
- Location
- Earth
I know Biel-Tan won't attack us with the Moot coming up, but there's still a bunch of Orks around you know? We should keep at least a decent chunk of the fleet with us.