A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

[Copperscale]

What is Meros 's gimmick /focus as a craftworld? Beyond being doomed?
Are they martial, seeers, engineers, ....

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Whatever they were before pales, for now, they are Meros Orkbane

 

[BigFungus26]

[ ] Draft: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v2.

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I'd be all for this vote (at least at this moment) when the moratorium ends

If you can, do you think you can explain further on the choices behind the conversion fields (you asked SV for the answers pertaining to our general modus operandi a few pages back iirc, but if you could pile it all into one big post for easy access, that'd be appreciated) so that everyone's on the same page with how our troops should be structured?

 

[Alectai]

[ ] Second Draft: The Aeldmoot
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Weapon Forge (Needle Rifle) (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Armor Forge (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[ ] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
--[ ] Flaw: Poor Refraction
--[ ] Flaw: Slow On Attack
--[ ] Flaw: Low Threshold
--[ ] Advantage: Low Cost
--[ ] Advantage: Fast Recycle
--[ ] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[ ] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[ ] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
-[ ][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[ ] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
-[ ][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[ ] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host

CHANGELONG FROM FIRST DRAFT:

In light of the urgency for Engines having been cut down by QM clarification, and that our Stewardship really is hamstrung, I've dumped most of the engine repairs (Though I'm still putting 3 AP on it because it does need to be worked on, and diverted that AP into three places

A) Getting the Steward Hall Online
B) Starting the production of our baseline Troop Rifle (And yes, I'm going for Needle Rifles, infinite ammo + bullet hose = perfect Troop Rifle)
C) Starting the production of Wraithweave Brigantine (Which is going to be our standard Troop Armor, as VGA is too expensive to be deployed on the scales we'll evidently need to deploy them on. VGA will move to Elites, and Ithilmar as specialist assault units).

This primes us to see what our "Per Turn" production is in two fields that we'll always need more of given what we learned about the scale we'll need to operate up to, and also addressing one of our "Pressing Issues" to boot. Steward Hall and Shrine of Khaine are both online at the end of the turn, getting the last of our T1 structures built, leaving us only with staffing the former, and if our docket somehow is cleared, we can still iron man the engines in a pinch.

I'll be reinforcing the Val-Terrine force with a Line Fleet and a Line Host as well, just to make sure they don't get into trouble. That being said, we're already sending a ton of transports to the evacuation mission, and I'm not sure a Transport Fleet would significantly help, though I will happily adjust if we can get confirmation there.

EDIT: Due to a copy-paste error, the previous draft was overspent by one. Removed from the Plasma Reactor (Which was 3 AP), and added to the Quilian Next Repair Project, which should ensure they have enough slack to join the Aeldmoot.

 

[F0lkL0re]

Geez this thread goes by fast some days.

So I've been thinking on this for most of the day and I had a bit of a radical thought that is going to get me shouted at but what if we delayed doing the Moot for a couple of turns so that we can get stewardship fixed up and get some diplomats available to spread the message even further then we can now as it does say in the lesser Craftworld and Exodite parts of the Aeldmoot entry that adding more of them will have more weight due to ether having more people or just from showing up so I'm going to make two plans one that does the moot and one that doesn't.

EDIT: I'm keeping a forge action on producing more equipment because we really fuck god damned need better stuff for our troops whether it's guns, grenades or vehicles the other action will be on the Hall of Stewardship.

[] Plan To Moot
-[] [Steward] The Harlequins (1 point)
-[] [Steward] Ulthwe (2 points)
-[] [Steward] Saim-Hann (1 point)
-[] [Steward] Iyanden (4 points)
-[] [Steward] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[] [Steward] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[] [Steward] Your Allies (Free)
-[] [Bonesinger] Armor Foundry (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Refit an Escort (3 AP)
--[] 6 Nettle class and 3 War Ketch prioritising damaged ships
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1AP)
-[] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Hall of Stewardship)
-[] Forge of Vaul: Produce Wargear (5,000 EP)
-[] [Seer] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek?"
-[] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP)
--[] Flaw: Slow on Attack
--[] Advantage: Compact
-[] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Meros: Recall For Repairs
--[] All damaged ships
-[] [Warrior] Meros: Send Reinforcements
--[] 15 War Ketch
-[] [Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 2nd Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th and 7th Scout Fleets, 1st-5th Line hosts, 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts and 1st-3rd Armored Assault Hosts to aid Meros
--[] 9th and 11th Scout Fleets to aid the evacuation of Fea-Eresh
--[] 13th and 15th Scout Fleets to aid in Freeboota hunting

[] Plan Or Not To Moot
-[] [Steward] Design a Light Cruiser (6 AP)
-[] [Steward] River and Lake, Pond and Pool—All may Feed the World (4 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Armor Foundry (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Refit an Escort (3 AP)
--[] 6 Nettle class and 3 War Ketch prioritising damaged ships
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1AP)
-[] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Hall of Stewardship)
-[] Forge of Vaul: Produce Wargear (5,000 EP)
-[] [Seer] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek?"
-[] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP)
--[] Flaw: Slow on Attack
--[] Advantage: Compact
-[] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Meros: Recall For Repairs
--[] All damaged ships
-[] [Warrior] Meros: Send Reinforcements
--[] 15 War Ketch
-[] [Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 2nd Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th and 7th Scout Fleets, 1st-5th Line hosts, 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts and 1st-3rd Armored Assault Hosts to aid Meros
--[] 9th and 11th Scout Fleets to aid the evacuation of Fea-Eresh
--[] 13th and 15th Scout Fleets to aid in Freeboota hunting

 

[Skjadir]

I'd be all for this vote (at least at this moment) when the moratorium ends

If you can, do you think you can explain further on the choices behind the conversion fields (you asked SV for the answers pertaining to our general modus operandi a few pages back iirc, but if you could pile it all into one big post for easy access, that'd be appreciated) so that everyone's on the same page with how our troops should be structured?

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Updated it again.

And yeah I can explain why i go for that mix of actions.
Just going to take a bit.

 

[Alratan]

I really, really don't think we need to invest in infantry equipment now we have a vast allied Warhost filling that need for us. Its by far our least important priority. Even the Engines are more important, as we're almost certainly not going to be able to deploy a relevant amount of infantry for many, many decades.

We're much better off spending the BAP expanding our general industry, repairing allies ships, or repairing allied shipyards.

I won't talk about the rules in the Quest but generally vehicular weapons have way better armor penetration so that they can, well, penetrate other vehicles and sometimes light fortifications. Trade off is either rate of fire or ability to engage multiple targets.

A bunch of Ithilmar guys could mow down infantry pretty easily from the back of some skimmer but they would have worse range and anti-armor capabilities than a proper vehicular gun. Plus if you want to fire your guns from a vehicle you are going to sacrifice armor for better firing angles, there is no way around it.

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The way I'm thinking about it, the same things that make vehicle weapons better at killing armour (more power, better stabilisation, etc) could also be turned to making them better at killing infantry, making them have wider area of effect or a faster rate of fire, f we chose to. On the tabletop, things are balanced with a meta in mind.

Whether we've designed vehicle weapons with that in mind is a different matter, of course.

 

[Mechanis]

If I can nitpick a bit.


This is one of the few issues that notes it is both time critical and something to do quickly, and yet we're only spending a single Seeer AP to improve it, as far as I can tell.

We might want to sick our friends on it. It's probably more urgent than reinforcing Fau-Eresh.

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You already set a fleet to go handle that, so it's not time critical to do so, only a matter of finding their hideout and then assaulting it---or calling for reinforcements if it looks like more than what is there can chew, even if that's not especially likely.

I wonder if the Psychomaton Forge was supposed to do that? They did run all the stuff that required labor, and most of our stewardship has been about replacing them.

OTOH, the whole cursed and doomed and tendency to explode into demons doesn't make that seem like practical basic infrastructure.

----
Unrelated question.

What is Meros 's gimmick /focus as a craftworld? Beyond being doomed?
Are they martial, seeers, engineers, ....

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You should be able to get a decent idea of a Craftworld's "hat" by studying known Eldar iconography and looking at their world-rune, because I was using known Eldar iconography when I went about designing those.

 

[Alectai]

I really, really don't think we need to invest in infantry equipment now we have a vast allied Warhost filling that need for us.

We're much better off spending the BAP expanding our general industry, repairing allies ships, or repairing allied shipyards.



The way I'm thinking about it, the same things that make vehicle weapons better at killing armour (more power, better stabilisation, etc) could also be turned to making them better at killing infantry, making them have wider area of effect or a faster rate of fire, f we chose to. On the tabletop, things are balanced with a meta in mind.

Whether we've designed vehicle weapons with that in mind is a different matter, of course.

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The Forges exist because we already have two very, very good infantry gear pieces, and we can use this as a barometer for how much EP is generated per turn with something we're always going to need more of. Wraithweave Brigantine and Needlers are pretty much going to be our Guardian Mesh + Shuriken Catapult equivalent, and given how many Warhosts are involved with a serious force, we're going to need an absolute asston of both if we're going to make it. I strongly hope we get a chance to revisit our starting Rationalization because we need to move our initial designs to the Elite bracket and replace our Guardian options with our updated kit.

But also, because I can get two of these for 4 AP, but if I were to pick Enhance Industry, I'd only get one of them.

EDIT: A reminder that a Needler is an infinite ammo, easy to use bullet hose that doesn't even have much in the recoil, and presumably does comparable-to-better damage than Shuriken weapons do. It's absolutely nuts.

 

[Professor Vesca]

I won't talk about the rules in the Quest but generally vehicular weapons have way better armor penetration so that they can, well, penetrate other vehicles and sometimes light fortifications. Trade off is either rate of fire or ability to engage multiple targets.

A bunch of Ithilmar guys could mow down infantry pretty easily from the back of some skimmer but they would have worse range and anti-armor capabilities than a proper vehicular gun. Plus if you want to fire your guns from a vehicle you are going to sacrifice armor for better firing angles, there is no way around it.

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One of my plans for an Ithilnar Mk2 is to drop the holofield, add more armor and power assist and give them giant variable mass Hammers as our elite melee infantry.

Maybe plan for a Mk3 teleport so they can just blink into existence, play golf with a tank, and then disappear again.

 

[Alratan]

[ ] Draft: The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP initial, 1 point continuous | 2 turns)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khaine (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (4 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[ ] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
--[ ] Flaw: Slow On Attack
--[ ] Flaw: Low Threshold
--[ ] Advantage: Low Cost
--[ ] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[ ] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[ ] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
-[ ][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[ ] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
-[ ] [WARRIOR] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[ ] Send three allied Scout Fleets to help search for the Freebootaz, lead by a Line Fleet to stiffen them in case they bump into anything nasty.
--[ ] Send four allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway, looking for routes to the True Stars.

Ok, going for a full court diplomatic press on top of our basic infrastructure.

We're holding the Aeldarmoot this turn, so I want to show off what an amazing ally we are to our friends. That's why I've gone heavy on helping both Quilan and Arach-Qin, as well as trying to find the Freebootaz so we can kill them.

With a large allied army that is very strong on infantry, I don't think building more infantry gear is at all urgent, but showing off diplomatically is particularly important for this turn.

The Forges exist because we already have two very, very good infantry gear pieces, and we can use this as a barometer for how much EP is generated per turn with something we're always going to need more of. Wraithweave Brigantine and Needlers are pretty much going to be our Guardian Mesh + Shuriken Catapult equivalent, and given how many Warhosts are involved with a serious force, we're going to need an absolute asston of both if we're going to make it. I strongly hope we get a chance to revisit our starting Rationalization because we need to move our initial designs to the Elite bracket and replace our Guardian options with our updated kit.

But also, because I can get two of these for 4 AP, but if I were to pick Enhance Industry, I'd only get one of them.

EDIT: A reminder that a Needler is an infinite ammo, easy to use bullet hose that doesn't even have much in the recoil, and presumably does comparable-to-better damage than Shuriken weapons do. It's absolutely nuts.

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My issue remains that we don't urgently need more infantry. It's a capability we've met well compared to our other needs. Sure, it might be useful in a few decades if we want to operate independently or show our good will, but right now it's just not a pririty.

For example, fixing Arach-Qin's shipyards might get us a Sword of Vaul class battleship in the next couple of turns. That will allow us to do much more than a fraction of detachment's worth of infantry gear.

 

[Alectai]

I'd still rather focus on actually following one of the Pressing Issue recomenndations--that being "We should keep building wargear". Infrastructure will tell us how much EP a single Production Infrastructure building is worth by picking two items that we know the price of and that we'll always have a near bottomless hunger for anyway. It takes out many problems with one rock.

 

[Copperscale]

Meros has an Eye on it, so, Morai-Heg/Seer focused?

 

[Candesce]

E.g. Militia Heavy detachment refit to the sort of same level of standard we hold Anvils would be 3-4k EP.

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If we went all in on exotics, maybe. I worked out what a Militia Heavy looks like in price with gear switched out for our intended common stuff where it was worse - Needlers, VGW, Razorwind Jetbikes, etc - and it's still just under 3k EP, with over half of it being the jetbikes.

Vehicles are expensive. We need them to carry the really heavy weapons, but for anything that doesn't need the heavy weapons infantry gives better cost per gun.

 

[Alectai]

For example, fixing Arach-Qin's shipyards might get us a Sword of Vaul class battleship in the next couple of turns. That will allow us to do much more than a fraction of detachment's worth of infantry gear.

Click to shrink...

And how are we going to afford to arm that Sword of Vaul Class Battleship? These things are megaprojects in their own right, I'm not in an urgent hurry to get those online when we have so much else on our plate--and we do have a marker in our "Pressing Issues" tab that tells us that we should keep making gear.

 

[Alratan]

I'd still rather focus on actually following one of the Pressing Issue recomenndations--that being "We should keep building wargear". Infrastructure will tell us how much EP a single Production Infrastructure building is worth by picking two items that we know the price of and that we'll always have a near bottomless hunger for anyway. It takes out many problems with one rock.

Click to shrink...

Helping our allies does two things.

1) It gets us more forces much, much faster than building it ourselves. Just look at the sixty warhosts we now have that we can deploy. Now many turns production would that take to build the gear for?

2) It should impress potential allies at the Aeldarmoot we're about to have, if our current allies talk about how great being our friend is. This si a very limited opportunity to maximise the impact of this.

Getting the production of those forges a couple of turns earlier seems incredibly unlikely to be worth as much as those two.

 

[Professor Vesca]

And how are we going to afford to arm that Sword of Vaul Class Battleship? These things are megaprojects in their own right, I'm not in an urgent hurry to get those online when we have so much else on our plate--and we do have a marker in our "Pressing Issues" tab that tells us that we should keep making gear.

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It will probably have its own weapons to be honest.

 

[Skjadir]

[ ] Draft: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v2.5

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So explanation for this:
The Aeldmoot i think is mostly self-explanatory go big on the reveal also lots of chances to diplomancy.

The Bonesinger actions.
Pretty much dropped the engine to focus on the critical infrastructure not having them is just crippling going by our past turns and how much they hurt AP wise.
Following that 2 foundries are getting build one for VGA and one for Ithilmar.
Mostly because these two will be our primary armors going forward, not the Brigandine.
Then last points are then spend following up on the promises we made.

Overall should leave us in a pretty solid position and help us start fixing our ground forces with some of the armors we will start to collect passively.

Seeker well, the Conversion shields are mostly optimized for vehicles and ships, because that is where i feel they will be used the most. They can also be integrated into our armors if we want wide range deployment for our infantry and otherwise can still give high importance infantry one.

Expensive is less hash on vehicles and on ships and this could be seen as us paying a higher price for using 1 less slot, which is pretty huge for both.
Slow on Attack is kind of free for us due to very wide deployment of the Holo-fields.
High Power Draw mostly just matters in case of non-integrated deployment, which I think we aren't planning. So this would have an overall pretty minimal effect on us.

Rugged because it keeps them intact over intense/long fights and more importantly it prevents them blowing up on an overload. Fast Recycle because it has some very nice synergies with Holo-Fields and Gravy-Shields turning into a rather nasty you have to do this much DPS or you aren't going to do damage.

For the warriors it deploys some reinforcements to the VAL-TERRINE taskforce.

 

[Alratan]

And how are we going to afford to arm that Sword of Vaul Class Battleship? These things are megaprojects in their own right, I'm not in an urgent hurry to get those online when we have so much else on our plate--and we do have a marker in our "Pressing Issues" tab that tells us that we should keep making gear.

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I think it can currently fight, just not as well as it could before the Fall. At the very least it's a prestige item that gives us credibility and as a very potent garrison to help defend the Craftworld

Also Arach-Qin is likely to be able to send more of its fleet to temporarily help than just the flagship if things get dicey.

Having their fleet repaired faster is good for us, for them, and for other Eldar they may help.

 

[Alectai]

Helping our allies does two things.

1) It gets us more forces much, much faster than building it ourselves. Just look at the sixty warhosts we now have that we can deploy. Now many turns production would that take to build the gear for?

2) It should impress potential allies at the Aeldarmoot we're about to have, if our current allies talk about how great being our friend is. This si a very limited opportunity to maximise the impact of this.

Getting the production of those forges a couple of turns earlier seems incredibly unlikely to be worth as much as those two.

Click to shrink...

We were also told that sending seven scout fleets would be grotesque overkill. Frankly, it's already weird that they've been looking for a decade without word of even being on the trail, which is why I'm still sending them backup in case they need it, but that's also to reduce our losses rather than anything else.

I just disagree that the Shipyard Project being done--which is explicitly a "Nice to have" bonus, is somehow going to be a major inflection point in the Aeldmoot's production compared to everything we've already agreed on that stacks it in our favor. Not when we actually do have "We should still be producing Wargear" on our actual Pressing Issues tab.

 

[Skjadir]

The reason to go for armor foundries now is that we need a ton of infantry armor going forward so getting this done now and getting a passive income of them makes sense.
Because our retrofit isn't finished yet.

Edit:
They also gain us some critical information on our logistics abilities in regard to having most of our army actually in VGA. The info on production rates for our two high-end armors is I think worth it alone.

 

[10ebbor10]

Meros has an Eye on it, so, Morai-Heg/Seer focused?

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Would make sense, especially since we know that their leader is called a Seerlord.

perhaps even Seerlord Draylin of Meros

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I just disagree that the Shipyard Project being done--which is explicitly a "Nice to have" bonus, is somehow going to be a major inflection point in the Aeldmoot's production compared to everything we've already agreed on that stacks it in our favor. Not when we actually do have "We should still be producing Wargear" on our actual Pressing Issues tab.

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I will also argue that "fix a shipyard" sounds like a longer commitment, not a one and done.

If that's the case, postponing it till after we fix basic infra (and hopefully have a better view of our infra debts) should help.

 

[Alectai]

The reason to go for armor foundries now is that we need a ton of infantry armor going forward so getting this done now and getting a passive income of them makes sense.
Because our retrofit isn't finished yet.

Edit:
They also gain us some critical information on our logistics abilities in regard to having most of our army actually in VGA. The info on production rates for our two high-end armors is I think worth it alone.

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Yeah, my focus right now is on Wraithweave exactly because it costs exactly 2 EP, which means we can extrapolate how much a single point of Production Infrastructure is worth by how many Brigantines we get out of it. And we will always need more, since this is going to be our Basic Troop Armor it seems given how many dudes we need to field to have an army worthy of the name, and even outside that, it's good for crew of ships and vehicles as well. By adding a weapon as well (Which is probably our best gun that doesn't cost a fortune or Exotics), we get to see if the value of armor forges vs weapon forges is different.

 

[DarkLight140]

If we went all in on exotics, maybe. I worked out what a Militia Heavy looks like in price with gear switched out for our intended common stuff where it was worse - Needlers, VGW, Razorwind Jetbikes, etc - and it's still just under 3k EP, with over half of it being the jetbikes.

Vehicles are expensive. We need them to carry the really heavy weapons, but for anything that doesn't need the heavy weapons infantry gives better cost per gun.

Click to shrink...

I'm really inclined to pull the jetbikes out of most of our detachment design when we can and restrict them to dedicated scouting/raiding/fast detachments, for precisely this reason. Jetbikes are cool, but a Razorwind is bringing 24 (26 with pilot weapons) EP of gun at 50 (58 with pilot gear) EP of cost. Admittedly the mobility that it purchases with that extra cost is very impressive, but we have jetbikes practically everywhere- including in lineholder or heavy assault detachments! Keep the squads that paid the speed tax in their own organizations, and incorporate a fast unit into a warhost as needed to bring those capabilities to the table.

 

[Alratan]

The reason to go for armor foundries now is that we need a ton of infantry armor going forward so getting this done now and getting a passive income of them makes sense.
Because our retrofit isn't finished yet.

Click to shrink...

We don't need any infantry armour though. We've just been leant a vast army with more infantry armour than we can make for decades. It should be so far down the list of priorities it falls off the bottom.

The incremntal difference of our production is basically nothing compared to the incremental difference fixing our allies shipyards or their fleets makes.

We were also told that sending seven scout fleets would be grotesque overkill. Frankly, it's already weird that they've been looking for a decade without word of even being on the trail, which is why I'm still sending them backup in case they need it, but that's also to reduce our losses rather than anything else.

I just disagree that the Shipyard Project being done--which is explicitly a "Nice to have" bonus, is somehow going to be a major inflection point in the Aeldmoot's production compared to everything we've already agreed on that stacks it in our favor. Not when we actually do have "We should still be producing Wargear" on our actual Pressing Issues tab.

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I'm going to switch the fleet deployment shortly.

The Shipyard Project may be a nice to have diplomatically, however fixing the Shipyard should mean that their fleet is repaired much faster, which means that we should free up our committed BAP noticeably earlier, and their fleet should be much more capable of deploying to do useful things like kill orks.

The Shipyard kills three birds with one stone. Diplomatic benefits, BAP benefits, and military benefits. It's just much more valuable than adding some infantry gear that we don't need to our stores.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

The third form is "Warp Magic™", which includes things like warding runes, kine-shields, and so on. The Eldar are presently in the position of being previously reliant on highly sophisticated versions of the third catagory, only the have most of them stop working, a good chunk of the rest turn into horrible gribbly things that had to be put down with anti-tank weapons, and the tiny handful of what's left being impractically expensive to actually turn on for any reasonable length of time without literal mass 'human' sacrifice, which they regard as a 'not just no, but hell no, I'll let myself get eaten by daemons first' for entirely understandable reasons, and having had pretty much everyone who actually knows how the things were made having dropped dead. Sometimes after a stint as a horrible murder cultist.

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So this is the sort of thing we'd want Thirst Mitigation to free up psychic power and a Seer Circle and Academy to have a base of expertise on magic and artifice before we start reinventing it?