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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Candesce said:
The Battlecasters and Warcasting Circles currently both wear the same type of armor: Wraithbone Hardsuits. They are not the only wearers of Wraithbone Hardsuits in their detachments, though. Are we allowed to refit them separately from the rest of their detachments? We do not have the Ithilmar to outfit the other users of Hardsuits in their detachments.

Anyways. There's seven detachments with psykers, so if we want to fully upgrade all of them that's 2 AP for the psykers, 2 AP for everyone else wearing hardsuits in those detachments, and 2 AP for everyone wearing trauma plates, because the detachments previously used two types of armor and we're trying to switch to three. Messy.
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Yes, but of the five armor refit slots per AP, each new armor class we introduce consumes one of those slots. So we could absolutely make a detachment that uses five types of armor. But it would take five slots per AP spent.
 
Honestly though it is on brand for the Vulkhari to instantly figure out a scheme that the chaos gods were banking on us succumbing to over the course of several milennia...

Only to hit a snafu with logistics.

We remain an intellectual powerhouse among the Eldar (/j)
 
BigFungus26 said:
Honestly though it is on brand for the Vulkhari to instantly figure out a scheme that the chaos gods were banking on us succumbing to over the course of several milennia...

Only to hit a snafu with logistics.

We remain an intellectual powerhouse among the Eldar (/j)
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We are intellectual titans I dont know what you are talking about. Our towering intellects eclipse the very stars.

EDIT: It is most efficient to produce wargear in multiples of detachments, but we dont have to *use* that much wargear when refitting a detachment.
 
For me, the problem is that just solidifies the design the army once and then never touch it again because the AP needed to update even a small part is just too expensive AP with what we know.

And if you want to change things, good chance you get things done faster by designing another army from the ground up and just start raising these new detachments instead and ignore the old army.

More or less the system punishes any mistakes in the design process very hard.
Kind of requiring us to know how the army (and have designs) should look like before the first vote is done.
 
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Skjadir said:
For me, the problem is that just solidifies the design the army once and then never touch it again because the AP needed to update even a small part is just too expensive AP with what we know.

And if you want to change things, good chance you get things done faster by designing another army from the ground up and just start raising these new detachments instead and ignore the old army.

More or less the system punishes any mistakes in the design process very hard.
Kind of requiring to know how the army (and have designs) should look like before the first vote is done.
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Well what we would do is have a Detachment to test our stuff out in the field and then a standing army. The standing army we wouldn't want to mess with but we can use the AP to tinker with the Detachment testing our latest designs.

We wouldn't want to refit the army except all at once. Not in dribs and drama like we are presently stuck doing.

Also if we just fire the old army and raise a new one whenever we want to upgrade wargear would we lose out on veteran experience?
 
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Yeah not having fun with this. Good luck.
Skjadir said:
For me, the problem is that just solidifies the design the army once and then never touch it again because the AP needed to update even a small part is just too expensive AP with what we know.

And if you want to change things, good chance you get things done faster by designing another army from the ground up and just start raising these new detachments instead and ignore the old army.

More or less the system punishes any mistakes in the design process very hard.
Kind of requiring us to know how the army (and have designs) should look like before the first vote is done.
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I think the thing to do there would be to break up previous detachments to be reformed into new ones actually, regaining personnel to integrate into the new detachment in the process.
 
Anyway, here's my plan for an iteration of the plan.
I aim to refit detachments belonging to the Following deployed warhosts :

3 Militia, 3 heavy militia, 1 Grand Battlecasters

By my count, these should have the following detachments combined :

7*battlecasting

3*hearthguardline
2*Hearthguard skirmish
3*hearthguard light support

11*militia line
6*militia assault
6*militia heavy
9*militia light support

Within these detachments, we make the following swaps.

[X] 10ebbor10's Mixed Math
In 7 battlecasting detachments

11*Wraithbone Hardsuits => Ithilmar (this is all the Psykers) => 77 Ithilmar used

In 3 hearthguardline detachments :
44 Wraithbone Hardsuits => VGA 132 VGA used

In 2 Hearthguard Skirmish Detachments
36 Wraithbone Hardsuits => VGA 72 VGA used

In 3 hearthguard light support detachements
32 Wraithbone Hardsuits = > VGA 96 used

In 11 militia line
18 Wraithbone Hardsuits = VGA 198 used

In 6 militia assault
12 Wraithbone Hardsuits = VGA 72 used

In 6 militia Heavy
10 Wraithbone Hardsuits = VGA 60 used

In 7 militia support
14 Wraithbone Hardsuits = VGA 98 used

For a total of all Ithilmar used, all VGA used, and 45 detachments touched.

6 militia assault recieve 3 starblasters each
6 militia assault recieve 12 flamers each


Anyone mind telling me if I messed up any math?

(Where each detachment goes is is an exercise left for the reader. I sure as hell have no idea).
 
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I'll be honest, I was pretty sure I was on point, but apparently I was vastly below it.

So let me try to list it out, could you explain where my confusion lies @Mechanis?

A) We get 5 Armor Swaps per SAP (An Armor Swap defined as "Converting one type of Armor used by a Detachment to another")
B) We are swapping the armor of 41 Detachments total
-B2) Of those, the Battlecasting Circles get a second Armor Swap each to give all of their Psykers Ithilmar armor for maximum protection. There are 7 of those across the desired refit target
C) The Turn Plan is working with 7 Battlecasting Detachments, and 33 non-Battlecasting detachments. For a total of 47 required Armor Swaps
D) 47 Armor Swaps would require 9.4 SAP (Which is most of what was committed here, so we are overspent, but not by as much as you claimed)

So where's the problem in my outlook? I am genuinely asking here and not trying to be sarcastic. At worst, we might have to miss the basic Militia Warhost because we are a little overspent based on my math here, but it's not to the level where we should require two or three turns of spending nothing but SAP refitting.
 
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Alectai said:
I'll be honest, I was pretty sure I was on point, but apparently I was vastly below it.

So let me try to list it out, could you explain where my confusion lies @Mechanis?

A) We get 5 Armor Swaps per SAP (An Armor Swap defined as "Converting one type of Armor used by a Detachment to another")
B) We are swapping the armor of 41 Detachments total
-B2) Of those, the Battlecasting Circles get a second Armor Swap each to give all of their Psykers Ithilmar armor for maximum protection. There are 7 of those across the desired refit target
C) The Turn Plan is working with 7 Battlecasting Detachments, and 33 non-Battlecasting detachments. For a total of 47 required Armor Swaps
D) 47 Armor Swaps would require 9.4 SAP (Which is most of what was committed here, so we are overspent, but not by as much as you claimed)

So where's the problem in my outlook? I am genuinely asking here and not trying to be sarcastic. At worst, we might have to miss the basic Militia Warhost because we are a little overspent based on my math here, but it's not to the level where we should require two or three turns of spending nothing but SAP refitting.
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I fear that we might not just need one SWAP per destination armor, but also 1 swap per source armor.

If so, then swapping out all the armor in the battlecasting circle would require 3 swaps (2 from trauma/hardplate to VGA, 1 from hardplate to Ithilmar)
 
Alectai said:
So where's the problem in my outlook? I am genuinely asking here and not trying to be sarcastic.
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Each different type of armor per detachment we swap out is counts as one of the 1 armor switches.
Each of the Battlecasting Detachments have 3 different types of armor.

We can't go switch out Armor types x,y,z -> Armor type a for one point
That needs to be
Armor type x -> Armor type a, 1 point
Armor type y -> Armor type a, 1 point
Armor type z -> Armor type a, 1 point
For a total of 3 points.

Edit:
Its why i stated we want 1 generalized armor for everybody and design our army once because the update costs are just stupid high even with the bits we have.
 
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Yeah, this is absolutely not a solution to any of our woes.

[X] keep current plan

We can't salvage this given how kitbashed our starting spread is, so having at least one Warhost in modernized, rationalized armor that has a lot of punch will have to do. Easier to disband them going forward and raise them back up again.
 
Skjadir said:
Each of the Battlecasting Detachments have 3 different types of armor.
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Well, no, they each have two. If we were just switching everyone into VGA or everyone with hardsuits into VGA and everyone with trauma plates into Brigandine we can save a swap per detachment. Dunno if not having the psykers in Ithilmar is worth that.
 
Alectai said:
Yeah, this is absolutely not a solution to any of our woes.

[X] keep current plan

We can't salvage this given how kitbashed our starting spread is, so having at least one Warhost in modernized, rationalized armor that has a lot of punch will have to do.
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eh, mine also works, I think? It upgrades all our elites along all standard detachments + the psykers.
 
Somebody please get Guilliman to land on our craftworld, we can NOT do logistics to save our skins (/half joking)
 
Candesce said:
Well, no, they each have two. If we were just switching everyone into VGA or everyone with hardsuits into VGA and everyone with trauma plates into Brigandine we can save a swap per detachment. Dunno if not having the psykers in Ithilmar is worth that.
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Right now we only have enough swaps to do just the hardsuit guys anyway, so it doesn't matter as much?
 
Candesce said:
Well, no, they each have two. If we were just switching everyone into VGA or everyone with hardsuits into VGA and everyone with trauma plates into Brigandine we can save a swap per detachment. Dunno if not having the psykers in Ithilmar is worth that.
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Each circle of the battlecasters is worth 12 seer AP.
There is a reason they get the high end armor.
 
@Mechanis can you please cost out the current plan so people can see why it's apparently 27 instead of 9, because I don't think anyone understands the math here.
 
... we even got our math wrong :(

We made 77 suits of Ithilmar Armor, but we have 8 battlecasting detachments (4 in the grand warcasting circle, and 1 in each heavy detachment), i.e. 88 Psykers.
 
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