Remove ads

A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

Reader mode
I feel it will be crucial to get automated units up and running. The Eldars biggest problem has long been their low numbers. Every loss is irreplaceable to them to say nothing about the issue with Slaanesh. If we can field even low grade machines in numbers it will be a big help.

Especially since it might dissuade attacks by Biel tan and other powers. If we can't get the empire ones than we'll have to make something new. Maybe like the ones found in the blackstone fortresses.
 
Ancient One said:
I feel it will be crucial to get automated units up and running. The Eldars biggest problem has long been their low numbers. Every loss is irreplaceable to them to say nothing about the issue with Slaanesh. If we can field even low grade machines in numbers it will be a big help.

Especially since it might dissuade attacks by Biel tan and other powers. If we can't get the empire ones than we'll have to make something new. Maybe like the ones found in the blackstone fortresses.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I definitely agree, but I think it is long-term and risky research, which means that before taking it, we would need a lot of safety research first. That is why I gave up in the Eastern retreat. We probably will get a chance to find another psychomatons forge; maybe even one of our Vaulish allies has one. But I find everything else too valuable to get the ship to stop sinking.
 
Ancient One said:
I feel it will be crucial to get automated units up and running. The Eldars biggest problem has long been their low numbers. Every loss is irreplaceable to them to say nothing about the issue with Slaanesh. If we can field even low grade machines in numbers it will be a big help.

Especially since it might dissuade attacks by Biel tan and other powers. If we can't get the empire ones than we'll have to make something new. Maybe like the ones found in the blackstone fortresses.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Agreed, plus it'll also help with us lacking the good stuff like wraithguard (since soul stones might not work on us / be in short supply) and generally pad out our I.M.F (Industry, Military, Fleet) / move our folks away from the fighting to focus on R&D, it'll be risky and probably take a while, but you bet we'd want them.

Plus if we do get away with making them, that would just make us stand out / look more interesting than before (in a positive, narrative sense)

"Oh what's that? We're supposed to be a dying race? How about 'nuh-uh', ten thousand psychic robots please."
 
[X]Wake not the sleeping Vulkhari giant
-[X] Plentiful Industry (-2 points)
-[X] Huge Shipyard (-2 points)
-[X] Bonesinger Choir (-1 point)
-[X] Vaulic Academy (-1 point)
-[X] Psychomaton Forge (-1 points)
-[X] Stroke of Brilliance (-2 points)
-[X] Holo-fields (-1 point)
-[X] Grav-shields (-3 points)
-[X] Vaul's Sicons (-1 points)
-[X] Ally with Arach-Qin (-3 points)
-[X] Ally with Nacretinei (-3 points)
-[X] An Eye, When it can be Spared (-1)
-[X] Desperate Times Make Strange Bedfellows (-2 points)
-[X] The Green Menace (3 points)
-[X] Fear (3 points)
-[X] [Saim-Hann] Hostile Relationship (6 points due to 2 other hostile relationships)
-[X] [Ulthwe] Hostile Relationship (6 points due to 2 other hostile relationships)
-[X] Engines offline (3 points)
-[X] Heavy Damage (3 points)
-[X] Heavy Fleet damage (2 points)
-[X] Small (2 points)
 
Differences in top two plans:
Except where noted here, both plans are the same.

The Mariner (and relevant parts of the fall):
Most of the point differences between the two plans here.
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
-Small (2 points)
-Weighted Light (1 point)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
-Armada (-2 points)
- Killing Blow of the Murdiously Shining Sword, Sword of Vaul class Relic Warship (-5 points)
- Escorts Broken (1 point)

Pretty huge difference here between starting with a small fleet and starting with an armada fleet larger than the major craftworlds. Especially when supplemented by the super ship, Killing Blow of the Murdiously Shining Sword, Sword of Vaul class Relic Warship.

The Smith and the Scholar
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
-Bonesinger Choir (-1 point)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
-Seer Council (-2 points)
- Psychomaton Forge (-1 points)

Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick takes a Bonesinger choir to help build ships and other tech to make up for small starting fleet. Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition. instead takes the seer council to provide future predictions right from the start and a psychomaton Forge to help (maybe eventually) offset the decimated population both plans also took.

Allies:
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Smalls] Meros (-1 point)

Both plans took the same 2 minors as well. Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick specifically takes Meros as an ally to force the thread into an early war with the Orks. The plan's op has posted why they think this is a good idea, and with a 2 vote lead at the moment, it looks like we'll find out soon if they're right.


Major Craftworlds:
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Alaitoc] Hostile Relationship (2 points)

Both plans otherwise took the same set of bonuses and maluses here. Worth noting that Alaitoc is on the far side of the galaxy, so if you're going to upset someone, they're a pretty safe pick.

Other Races
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Necrons] Respect (-1 Points)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
- [Necrons] Fear (3 points)
- These Worlds are Not For You (4 points)

Pretty big difference in approach to Necrons here. Notably, Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick does not take a stance on the miscellaneous minor races, unlike Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.

Location
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- The Northern Edge (3 points)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
- Watchers to the East (4 points)

A 3 pt vs 4 pt location. Which one you want is probably down to which set of canon timeline events you want to get involved in?

Tech
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Tech] Power Weapons (-1 Points)
- [Tech] Holo-Fields (-1 Points)

Both plans take Grav-shields. Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick doubles up with holo-fields and also take power-weapons. QM has said that large vehicles will be able to double up and use both but implied that small vehicles likely won't have the weight/item slots to be built with both at the same time.
 
Last edited:
AlexScribler said:
Differences in top two plans:
Except where noted here, both plans are the same.

The Mariner (and relevant parts of the fall):
Most of the point differences between the two plans here.
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
-Small (2 points)
-Weighted Light (1 point)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
-Armada (-2 points)
- Killing Blow of the Murdiously Shining Sword, Sword of Vaul class Relic Warship (-5 points)
- Escorts Broken (1 point)

Pretty huge difference here between starting with a small fleet and starting with an armada fleet larger than the major craftworlds. Especially when supplemented by the super ship, Killing Blow of the Murdiously Shining Sword, Sword of Vaul class Relic Warship.

The Smith and the Scholar
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
-Bonesinger Choir (-1 point)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
-Seer Council (-2 points)
- Psychomaton Forge (-1 points)

Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick takes a Bonesinger choir to help build ships and other tech to make up for small starting fleet. Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition. instead takes the seer council to provide future predictions right from the start and a psychomaton Forge to help (maybe eventually) offset the decimated population both plans also took.

Allies:
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Smalls] Meros (-1 point)

Both plans took the same 2 minors as well. Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick specifically takes Meros as an ally to force the thread into an early war with the Orks. The plan's op has posted why they think this is a good idea, and with a 2 vote lead at the moment, it looks like we'll find out soon if they're right.


Major Craftworlds:
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Alaitoc] Hostile Relationship (2 points)

Both plans otherwise took the same set of bonuses and maluses here. Worth noting that Alaitoc is on the far side of the galaxy, so if you're going to upset someone, they're a pretty safe pick.

Other Races
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Necrons] Respect (-1 Points)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
- [Necrons] Fear (3 points)
- These Worlds are Not For You (4 points)

Pretty big difference in approach to Necrons here. Notably, Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick does not take a stance on the miscellaneous minor races, unlike Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.

Location
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- The Northern Edge (3 points)

Plan: Codex Vulkhari 3rd Edition.
- Watchers to the East (4 points)

A 3 pt vs 4 pt location. Which one you want is probably down to which set of canon timeline events you want to get involved in?

Tech
Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick
- [Tech] Power Weapons (-1 Points)
- [Tech] Holo-Fields (-1 Points)

Both plans take Grav-shields. Plan: Walk Softly, and carry a very big stick doubles up with holo-fields and also take power-weapons. QM has said that large vehicles will be able to double up and use both but implied that small vehicles likely won't have the weight/item slots to be built with both at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Another thing to consider (for anyone else reading this who is on the fence about voting just yet) is the potential roleplaying appeal of Vulkhari, depending on what Mechanis writes, our population could very much consist of the people in charge of research, development and production before the Fall, and it could be that we were (one of) the first to predict the Fall, but we stayed behind a little longer than we should have in order to save as much of the research, naval and industrial equipment that we could take with us using whatever was left of our goodwill by the time the old Eldar empire collapsed (stealing museum pieces and the elf Mona Lisa and all that)

The decision to reforge our souls could've been the most logical response a group of scientists, engineers and artists could come up with to escape Slaanesh, but Alatoic views us with suspicion (whether because we're so well prepared compared to the other craftworlds, because of our reforging, or because we aren't adhering to the path system or venerating Asuryan since we're worshipping Vaul instead) and Biel-Tan will call us a repugnant traitor (whether out of a desire to expand their own military/industry or because they genuinely believe we've done wrong by them for simply existing)

I know I'm biased because I wrote the plan (believe me, even explaining more about it like this is kind of weird for me) but this'd give us plenty of wiggle room for what whatever we want to do next and it would be interesting to see the cultural difference between a traditional craftworlder and the Vulkhari when viewed under this lens.
 
Last edited:
Remove ads
Alectai said:
That's the case with both plans though...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ehhh I don't think so? At least it doesn't look like it to me?

I'll just ask for the sake of curiosity, (and because I don't think I asked?) but why exactly have you opted for a small, escort focused fleet rather than taking armada? It's only -2 points and you could've taken it pretty easily if you switched the necrons over to 'Fear', I get that your plan involves buildup and turtling strategies, but wouldn't you want to take a big fleet anyway for defense?

Edit: Hold on my math might be wrong

(Trying to avoid any further arguements, I just wanna know why)
 
Last edited:
BigFungus26 said:
Ehhh I don't think so? At least it doesn't look like it to me?

I'll just ask for the sake of curiosity, (and because I don't think I asked?) but why exactly have you opted for a small, escort focused fleet rather than taking armada? It's only -2 points and you could've taken it pretty easily if you switched the necrons over to 'Fear', I get that your plan involves buildup and turtling strategies, but wouldn't you want to take a big fleet anyway for defense?

(Trying to avoid any further arguements, I just wanna know why)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Truthfully, it's because we aren't Warlike, it's RP reasoning, it doesn't make sense for us to have a gigantic fleet with full scale warships. And it was a chance to shake loose points needed to get other fields in. So since it was RP appropriate and it let me re-invest those points into other fields that would benefit us, I thought it was a fair trade.

And no, I never once said turtle, the entire use of Bonesinger Choirs + maxed out industry is so we can minimize our initial recovery time and our ability to support the pacts we've taken is so we can buy off our starting debt while everyone else is still consolidating.

I just disagree with your choice to grab +7 points by going "We're scared of Necrons and aren't completely rational about it" and "We hate lesser races existing on worlds we terraformed before living memory and will kill them on site." I don't like the idea of doing that so we can afford an Armada and then pretending like we're any different than Biel-Tan. I want to be better than them, not the same thing but with a different logic behind it.

I just want to Learn Shit and Make Shit in the Grimdark, and hopefully bash together a future that doesn't require us to sell our souls or turn back the clock and assume everything was fine before.
 
Last edited:
Robotninja said:
Sure it does. We have a big fleet to avoid being bothered. We avoid using it as much as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

-.-

And we pay for it by being Maximum Racist Asshole to everyone who isn't Elfdar. That isn't a good way to Avoid Being Bothered, but it's a great way to gather people looking for a pound of flesh off you.
 
Alectai said:
Truthfully, it's because we aren't Warlike, it's RP reasoning, it doesn't make sense for us to have a gigantic fleet with full scale warships. And it was a chance to shake loose points needed to get other fields in. So since it was RP appropriate and it let me re-invest those points into other fields that would benefit us, I thought it was a fair trade.

And no, I never once said turtle, the entire use of Bonesinger Choirs + maxed out industry is so we can minimize our initial recovery time and our ability to support the pacts we've taken is so we can buy off our starting debt while everyone else is still consolidating.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah right that makes more sense.

You could probably still fit at least a medium sized fleet in if you removed power weapons and bumped up the necrons to fear I think? That'd be four extra points for you to redistribute and would make some good RP? Something like how we saved more of the scarier or falsified reports of the Necrons and got understandably concerned that they might still exist?

EDIT: OOPS NINJA'D, didn't see the edit (sorry)

(I could give my own explanation of how I could justify why our peaceful craftworlders are rolling around the galaxy with the strongest still-active navy, but I feel like I've been talking too much about my own plan)

If I could, I would've changed around the options to get the +7 we'd need for both the navy and the relic ship, but I think there's rules against making changes to the vote after they've been cast?

But yeah final edit: so the +7 from maiden worlds and necrons is the fundamental issue behind Plan Vulkhari?
 
Last edited:
BigFungus26 said:
Ah right that makes more sense.

You could probably still fit at least a medium sized fleet in if you removed power weapons and bumped up the necrons to fear I think? That'd be four extra points for you to redistribute and would make some good RP? Something like how we saved more of the scarier or falsified reports of the Necrons and got understandably concerned that they might still exist?

(I could give my own explanation of how I could justify why our peaceful craftworlders are rolling around the galaxy with the strongest still-active navy, but I feel like I've been talking too much about my own plan)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A 3 point bonus that won't become relevant for a long time, I feel, is going to really fuck us up when it actually fires because it's presumably been gathering interest the whole time.

I'm extremely reluctant to take that action as a result. Of the two options left over, Respect made... Sense? Game respects game, and they got where they were with a fraction of the blessings the Asuryani did. We're in the position they were at now, and have new appreciation for how fucked they were. I'll also state that I hope Respect gives the option of figuring out some Neat Material Magic tricks down the line too, because we're not reflexively kneejerking away from anything that reminds us of them. But this is, admittedly, more of a tiebreaker between that and Pity. I just feel that Fear is going to be something we'll be kicking ourselves for taking down the line, given how it's worth the same amount of points as Catastrophic Fleet Damage despite not actually influencing much of our starting position.
 
[X] Plan: The chainmail lies broken, waiting to be reforge V.1.4.
[X] Plan: Codex Vulkhari Final Edition
 
Last edited:
Alectai said:
A 3 point bonus that won't become relevant for a long time, I feel, is going to really fuck us up when it actually fires because it's presumably been gathering interest the whole time.

I'm extremely reluctant to take that action as a result. Of the two options left over, Respect made... Sense? Game respects game, and they got where they were with a fraction of the blessings the Asuryani did. We're in the position they were at now, and have new appreciation for how fucked they were. I'll also state that I hope Respect gives the option of figuring out some Neat Material Magic tricks down the line too, because we're not reflexively kneejerking away from anything that reminds us of them. But this is, admittedly, more of a tiebreaker between that and Pity. I just feel that Fear is going to be something we'll be kicking ourselves for taking down the line, given how it's worth the same amount of points as Catastrophic Fleet Damage despite not actually influencing much of our starting position.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I know, if I could, I would've tried to figure out a way to get those +7 points while still keeping all of our goodies, and I'm honestly kicking myself that neither of us can really edit our plans so we're both dissatisfied (you don't like the xenophobic hypocrisy of my plan, I don't like the vulnerability of yours)

We're at an impasse.

Hm, what would you think of the idea of me drafting up a new plan and this time sacrificing damage to our craftworld and fleet to make up for the +7 points from my previous plan?

Also is this allowed? Am I accidentally breaking any rules by offering the idea?

Hell, we could probably just ignore the minor races option and not take them, right? That'd save us -2?
 
Last edited:
Alectai said:
That we're at an impasse, it's too late at this point to really change tacks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Damn that's a bummer.

I should've probably asked why you had a problem with Vulkhari before now and we could have maybe done something to change it?

Thing is, I don't actually engage much in the forums and the whole planning thing usually, so I don't know much about the voting etiquette. Unless the mods or Mechanis is ok with a new vote and a new draft? I dunno, I'm coping hard on the fleet size and I'm kicking myself so hard for not thinking of this sooner.
 
Last edited:
That's what the one day preparation time was for, for people to ask each other questions and sort out the details. I put all my thoughts on the table, and I felt it would be bad manners to be attacking you, my plan should be able to stand on its own, unsolicited, I'm not going to attack a plan unless I feel it's absolutely folly. I'm frustrated admittedly by how many people want it and are either ignoring or downplaying the very real cost of picking fights with everyone to afford having a stronger navy, but just attacking someone's plan unprovoked hasn't historically gone well for me.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top