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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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We currently have the following damaged ships:
  • 32 Assault Ketch (Æthersails destroyed)
  • 12 Assault Ketch (Weapons Batteries disabled)
  • 7 Assault Ketch (Heavy Starlance disabled)
As we got 51 ships we can refit and repair i would go with the holo variant once we refitted them all we can design a new ones.
[] Holo Assault Ketch
 
BigFungus26 said:
Yeah escorts aren't supposed to be tanks, they're supposed to be a cloud of angry bees that harass the heavyweights, intercept torpedoes and generally be nuisances, but tanking isn't one of their jobs.

Though, to be fair, our particular cloud of angry bees have weapons 3 times as strong as a regular las-lance and weapons that are very good at stinging the heavyweights (the fatetwisters literally detonating ammunition depots and reactors in some of the Ork ships) so we can definitely hit above our weight class all things considered.

(That is, as long as we keep our weapons)
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In BFGA2, Asuryani destroyers can delete much larger ships if they can get a good torpedo strike on them. The Asuryani have like three ships in their fleet and they all slap.

So yeah, Aeldari ships absolutely punch above their weight.
 
Yeah, your current "good" designs can very much punch up, as long as they don't get hit---Orks are, in honesty probably the closest thing to an ideal opponent for you at the moment, since their ships tend to be Filled With Explodium and they eschew all long range engagement, whilst your own ships are built for long range sniper dueling. Which lets you engage in that sweet victory of "shooting the enemy when they basically can't shoot back" that any reasonable strategy prefers.
Profilozof said:
[] Ivy class Ketch - Revised
-[][System Slots] Reinforced Hull
-[][System Slots] Holo-Field
-[][System Slots] Point Defense Battery - Spike Macrocannon
-[][System Slots] Point Defense Battery - Spike Macrocannon
-[][System Slots] Plasma-Thruster
-[][System Slots] Æthersail
-[][Weapons Batteries] Spike Macrocannon
-[][Weapons Batteries] Spike Macrocannon
-[][Heavy Weapons Batteries] Heavy Las-Lance

I dropped grav shields for more defense batteries and reinforced hull, because we do not have an afterlife to afford losses. I refuse to left everything to dodge chance.
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PD batteries are standard vehicle scale weapons, not naval scale ones. So those would be regular Spike Cannons if you want to use them, but Lascannons are also an option (for example)
 
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As we are still in a state of emergency we should prioritize cheap refits over good ones. A backup propulsion system is our highest priority (thus why I favor the holo assault ketch) but I am partial to the grav shielded one, we havent seen that one in action yet. It might be worth it just to see how it performs in battle?

But as we are Asuryani we should lean into our advantages and just not be seen to be shot at in the first place. The first sign our enemy has of our presence is the rapid unscheduled disassembly of their ship from around them.
 
Professor Vesca said:
As we are still in a state of emergency we should prioritize cheap refits over good ones. A backup propulsion system is our highest priority (thus why I favor the holo assault ketch) but I am partial to the grav shielded one, we havent seen that one in action yet. It might be worth it just to see how it performs in battle?

But as we are Asuryani we should lean into our advantages and just not be seen to be shot at in the first place. The first sign our enemy has of our presence is the rapid unscheduled disassembly of their ship from around them.
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Another alternative:
[] Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heyv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 4 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.

Somewhat slower due to 1 Sail+Thrusters but should still be doing well.
The Holo-Field is I think more important on all ships than the grav-shields for stealth reasons that make them very valuable for us and i think can generally be seen allows to engage on your terms and disengage/retreat in almost all scenarios where the ships hasn't been mobility killed.
 
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@Mechanis Out of curiosity how exactly does the webway gate system component work? Does it plug the ship into the local webway allowing us to clown-car our ground forces into an area? Is it necessary to plug our craftworld into planetary webway networks?

Would you say its better to stick it on say, a battleship, or have a dedicated clowncar we drive around in?

Skjadir said:
Another alternative:
[] Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heyv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 4 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.

Somewhat slower due to 1 Sail+Thrusters but should still be doing well.
The Holo-Field is I think more important on all ships than the grav-shields for stealth reasons that make them very valuable for us and i think can generally be seen allows to engage on your terms and retreat in almost all scenarios where the ships hasn't been mobility killed.
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I still prefer the holo-assault because I dont think its worth the system slots to make our ketches tough? In that, they are so small that if they are taking hits in the first place something has gone wrong. I suppose I could see the argument that its just in case? But these ketches should be ambushing their targets and then making the Curly Howard noise as they run off to disappear and come around for another pass.

I think its better to make them harder to hit and to catch then it is to make them sturdier? Does that make sense?
 
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Skjadir said:
[] Grav-Sail Ketch
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I might be wrong but I think you could get away with a holo-field in this plan if you remove the extra sail-

Edit: Harlequin'ed

Edit 2:

Skjadir said:
[] Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heyv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 4 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.
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You forgot the holo-field in this plan by the way.
 
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Professor Vesca said:
As we are still in a state of emergency we should prioritize cheap refits over good ones. A backup propulsion system is our highest priority (thus why I favor the holo assault ketch) but I am partial to the grav shielded one, we havent seen that one in action yet. It might be worth it just to see how it performs in battle?

But as we are Asuryani we should lean into our advantages and just not be seen to be shot at in the first place. The first sign our enemy has of our presence is the rapid unscheduled disassembly of their ship from around them.
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Do note that the basic Ketch design you would be starting with is basically something that probably should have been a Schooner, so you can get it to be a lot cheaper (and more capable!) just by not adding a third Weapons Battery to the new design. That'll get you two slots right there.
 
This is the noise our ships make when they do their hit and runs.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5j8Jioan1w

Mechanis said:
Do note that the basic Ketch design you would be starting with is basically something that probably should have been a Schooner, so you can get it to be a lot cheaper (and more capable!) just by not adding a third Weapons Battery to the new design. That'll get you two slots right there.
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Well. Goddamn then. Now you have gone and made me conflicted.
 
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Professor Vesca said:
I still prefer the holo-assault because I dont think its worth the system slots to make our ketches tough? In that, they are so small that if they are taking hits in the first place something has gone wrong. I suppose I could see the argument that its just in case? But these ketches should be ambushing their targets and then making the Curly Howard noise as they run off to disappear and come around for another pass.

I think its better to make them harder to hit and to catch then it is to make them sturdier? Does that make sense?
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I fully know what you are meaning.

I am personally thinking Holo-Ketch is likely the best option for us here.
But i still like making plans and the Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch would likely do pretty well went acting as an escort for capitals as the grav-shields can likely deal with a stray shot here and there that would otherwise toast the ship.

Holo-Ketch with its speed and weapon load out on the other hand makes for some truly nasty ships for using wolf pack tactics with.
 
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Not sure about the rest of it, but by default I kinda want whatever we make to be a Holo-field + Grav-shield design. Making them fast and hit hard is definitely extremely valuable, and making them hard to hit should work better than trying to make them tanky, but at the same time I don't want to risk them folding like tissue paper if they get unlucky and something would hit them.

Grav-Shield should pretty neatly block off the unlucky hits, and unlike on the ground we don't generally need to care about picking up conversion fields as pretty much no one has space scale AOEs in general use.

EDIT: It also neatly means we don't need to really care about the problems of the sails and don't need the plasma thrusters, as they're basically never going to actually be taking damage. Anything that can throw out enough firepower to do any damage past Holo-field + Grav-shield is the sorta shit they should be able to outmaneuver.
 
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Skjadir said:
I fully know what you are meaning.

I am personally thinking Holo-Ketch is likely the best option for us here.
But i still like making plans and the Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch would likely do pretty well went acting as an escort for capitals as the grav-shields can likely deal with a stray shot here and there that would otherwise toast the ship.

Holo-Ketch with its speed and weapon load out on the other hand makes for some truly nasty ships for using wolf pack tactics with.
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Imagine what they will be like if we stick torpedoes on them for devastating alpha strikes.

We could rip the heart out of an enemy fleet just by deleting its most important ships from out of nowhere.
 
Mechanis said:
Do note that the basic Ketch design you would be starting with is basically something that probably should have been a Schooner, so you can get it to be a lot cheaper (and more capable!) just by not adding a third Weapons Battery to the new design. That'll get you two slots right there.
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Eyeballing it I think our current Ketch uses all 7 System slots and has one unused SWB, so wouldn't trading the latter in leave us with one free System slot?
 
Professor Vesca said:
Imagine what they will be like if we stick torpedoes on them for devastating alpha strikes.

We could rip the heart out of an enemy fleet just by deleting its most important ships from out of nowhere.
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I am so looking forward to getting torps.
Eldary have all the parts and tech to make some horrifying stuff there, that gives nightmares to the navies of the other races.

Think about the damage a (smart) torp with a plama/melta charge could do that has a holo-field to shield them from detection.
 
Professor Vesca said:
@Mechanis Out of curiosity how exactly does the webway gate system component work? Does it plug the ship into the local webway allowing us to clown-car our ground forces into an area? Is it necessary to plug our craftworld into planetary webway networks?
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It's a dedicated gate-to-gate corridor between a muster-gate on your Craftworld and the ship, though it is also able to link to local Webway networks. These are expensive (since the gates have to be created in linked pairs) but allow you to deploy strike forces directly from your Craftworld (or pull forces directly to your Craftworld) but I should think the potential security risk of that approch is fairly obvious, hense why they're in your big shooty Battleships.
Transport Bays are cheaper and don't have any inherent security concers, but they're also more limiting, and of course requires the ship actually travel back and forth to move things around. They also, naturally, impose a limit on how many Warhosts they can carry at once, for obvious reasons, and therefore require more ships to move larger forces.
 
So for the webway gates it sounds like we will want a dedicated ship carrying them.

I mean, its going to be a battleship for sure. But its going to be a battleship built around the idea of moving these gates around the galaxy. One that wont be easy to capture.
 
My proposals:
[] Starhawk Assault Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heavy weapon slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Spike Macrocannon Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[] Point Defense Battery - Spike Cannons - 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot

[] Budget Starhawk Assault Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heavy weapon slot
-[] 2x Spike Macrocannon Battery - 2 Weapon slots
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[] Point Defense Battery - Spike Cannons - 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot

[] Starhawk Fast Assault Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heavy weapon slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Spike Macrocannon Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 3x Æthersail - 3 System slot
-[] Point Defense Battery - Spike Cannons - 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot

[] Budget Starhawk Fast Assault Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heavy weapon slot
-[] 2x Spike Macrocannon Battery - 2 Weapon slots
-[] 3x Æthersail - 3 System slot
-[] Point Defense Battery - Spike Cannons - 1 System slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot

I think that more than 1 Fatetwister battery (50 scopes each) would be too costly so I'm using a Spike battery to fill in the second weapon battery slot, also included budget options with all Spikes and no Fatetwisters.

I'm favoring Grav-Shields over hull reinforcement as with our limited amount of system slots you're not going to be able to make our ships that much tankier with only one or two slots invested, especially for one of our smallest ships which are going to be inherently more fragile.

The fact that Æthersails are still included means that even if the additional tankiness initially saves the ship from an otherwise killing or crippling blow that ship will still have likely lost it's Æthersails, meaning it's going to be left behind by the rest of the fleet since all our other ships are optimized for avoiding hits.

Also, just a reminder that Close-In Weapons Batteries are worse against strike craft and ordinance in exchange for being capable of damaging starships.
Mechanis said:
There's actually two kinds; vehicle scale ones that are only good against smallcraft (and missiles) but very very good at that role, or "Close-In Weapons Batteries"--Superheavy scale weapons which, while somewhat less effective against smallcraft, are actually powerful enough to inflict meaningful damage to another Voidship at close range.
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Since most of the proposed designs include a Heavy Starlance and a Fatetwister battery the resulting ship's anti-ship capabilities should already be pretty solid. Sacrificing a whole extra system slot and a reduction in PD effectiveness for a tiny bit more anti-ship damage just doesn't seem worth it to me, even more so if you're proposing superheavy vehicle Starlances as CWIS given the very costly Starcrystal (520 Starcrystals) price tag.

Skjadir said:
Another alternative:
[] Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heyv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 4 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.

Somewhat slower due to 1 Sail+Thrusters but should still be doing well.
The Holo-Field is I think more important on all ships than the grav-shields for stealth reasons that make them very valuable for us and i think can generally be seen allows to engage on your terms and disengage/retreat in almost all scenarios where the ships hasn't been mobility killed.
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Plasma Thrusters only cost 2 System slots, might want to change that 4 System slots entry.
 
I wonder how large an object can be fit through our webway gates - can we fit fighters through it?

If not, can our fighters have wings taken off and reattached, or similar tricks to let them fit?
 
So i think i have the three designs i will be voting for and the ones futher below have more work done on them.
[] Holo Assault Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heayv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 2x Plasma Thrusters - 4 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
--[] Holo-Field

Very basic and likely very fast refit, pretty much just the Holo-Field.
Punchs way up and the Fatetwister is a golden BB against anything that lost their shields which is brutal.

[] Holographic Grav-Sail Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heayv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery -2 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.

Some more work done, switches one of the Plasma Thrusters for Grav-shields otherwise the same as Holo ketch
Slower than the Holo-Ketch but has added Defenses against stray shots with the Grav-Shield.

[] Holo-Grav Ketch
-[] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heayv slot
-[] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
-[] 2x Æthersail - 2 System slot
-[] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[] 1x Las-Lance Point Defense Battery -1 System slots
-[] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.

Switches the Starlance Close-In Weapons Battery out for a las-lance pdf.
And gets another sail in exchange overall quite speeding ship that due to the grav-shield is likely a good bit harder to wound/kill in combination with a ton of speed and the Holo-Field.

Also a ship that should be doing great against both orks and other eldary (Biel-Tan).
Edit. Of these ships its either going to be Holo Ketch or Holo-Grav ketch.


LOLROFL said:
Plasma Thrusters only cost 2 System slots, might want to change that 4 System slots entry.
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was a left over from the holo-version as it has baseline 2 of them.
 
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Professor Vesca said:
So for the webway gates it sounds like we will want a dedicated ship carrying them.

I mean, its going to be a battleship for sure. But its going to be a battleship built around the idea of moving these gates around the galaxy. One that wont be easy to capture.
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It is going to be as armed as possible, I imagine. Might even get its own ship type/chassis customised for the purpose in the far future.
 
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