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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Thor's Twin said:
The biggest difference isn't in raw health or qi boxes, but rather in comparing the dice they are bringing to the table.

At the moment they have Dex + Tech + Bonus for their conflict. That equates to

6 + 3 + 7 = 16.

Not a lot of dice, but that is about the dice that one of GG's mooks where throwing out. If they are with us they get another +3 to physical defense and +2 to physical attack.

Those dice place them close to the dice that Chu Song's late yellow/silver mooks where throwing out. As a buffer ourselves, we can further increase their dice by activating the techniques that help us and help the monsters. Encircling winds and pressure crack where mentioned, which would have them throwing out a total of 26 attacking dice against a person, which is a little bit less than Ji Rong's latest physical defense.
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I agree, though I will point out as a supporter of AE that them having a rather large amount less health boxes than a person of similar level is a disadvantage in comparisons unless we have time to set up and buff them. As far as I can tell they have only 19 Early Yellow defense dice, which is for the sake of using a number for comparison 6 dice less and two stages less than Ji Rong. It is however comparable and just a little less than the attacking dice of Guards 1 & 2 and the Ma's when we aren't buffing them.

That realm thing is another issue, since Luminescent Star-esque arts generally only need one hit to deliver their additional unblock-able damage. Just a scratch and *messy pop*.

Looking at TRF and our group defensive arts, Deepwood Vitality is a commonly used instant and provides a very important temporary health box to us and three allies(two worms and Zhengui) for example. This means the worms could be left with one health box after a Luminescent-esque attack, depending on how much other damage it dealt. Against Sun and Meizhen and Cai they're toast, but Guard 1 & 2 would have rather excessive difficulties to my understanding.

Ten Ring Defense and Hundred Ring Armament are also useful. Reading the description of TRD, can we "reach" out and negate one damage that would be hitting a worm by spending three qi? I don't think we can. Not sure though. If we have time to set up the Worms plus DEEPV plus HRA means they have 5 health boxes, 6 qi, 2 armor which can only be bypassed by perfect damage, 21 defense dice. Rather qi expensive though.
 
Hmmm... decided to look up how many element "levels" (for combat arts; EPC offers some Darkness, obviously) Ling Qi has as she's getting on the edge of breakthrough:

* Wind: 5 (FZ) +5 (FSA) +2 (AS)
* Darkness: 5 (SCS) + 5 (FVM) +2 (AE)
* Water: 5 (FVM) +2 (AC)
* Music: 5 (FVM)
* Heaven: 5 (FSA)
* Mountain: 4 (AM)
* Lake: 4 (AM)
* Wood: 3* (TRF)
* Earth: 2 (AE)
* Fire: 2 (AC)
* Thunder: 2 (AS)

So Ling Qi has 12/12 for Wind/Darkness (similar ratio if you split levels for multi-element arts), 7/5/5 for Water/Music/Heaven, 4/4 for Mountain/Lake, then 3/2/2/2 for the rest. Man, no wonder she's "scattered".

Of course, if the Argent arts are pulled away as being their own thing, that shifts a bit - 10/12 for Wind/Darkness, 8 for Argent, 5/5/5 for Water/Music/Heaven, 3/2 for Wood/Earth. Still, even putting aside Argent, she's still rather varied in elements - so "purity" isn't really a reason to discard Argent arts (in fact, as they're about balancing disparate elements, they might actually help with there being heaven, wood, water, darkness, wind and music in there).

* Yin: 5 (FZ) + 5 (SCS) + 5 (FVM) + 2 (AE)
* Balanced: 4 (AM) + 2 (AC) + 2 (AS)
* Yang: 5 (FSA) + 3* (TRF)

Heavily yin, of course, at a 17/8/8 split. Still, it's not actually all that overwhelming a difference. This balance will almost certainly change as FVM and SCS uncap and AE progresses though...
 
Alectai said:
I'm pointing out that if they're spending their turn attacking one of our summons and leaving us alone while we get a turn to cast more buffs or debuff them, we're still coming out ahead in the long run.
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And I'm pointing out that they aren't :
Alectai said:
about as tough as the mooks Gan Guangli brought with him.
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Those guys who have more than four health, and more than 6 qi. Seriously, we had more than that at early red.

You're trying to argue about "is this technique good", but I never said anything about that.

CircleTheSkies said:
I'm still a bit miffed at the worm form - the aesthetics, give Ling Qi something more fun than worms, darnit
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Well, It's Yan Renshu's aesthetic not ours, so it fits pretty well.
 
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AE worm getting (6)Qi instead of just "more hp" or armor makes me think they will be able to use Breath of Sygian Depths, eventually...
 
Ayashi said:
AE worm getting (6)Qi instead of just "more hp" or armor makes me think they will be able to use Breath of Sygian Depths, eventually...
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That's an interesting idea. Hmmm... why would they want to though...

Well they don't benefit from lowlight, yet(I think they may eventually being darkness techs and all), the dice bonus in the initial application is nifty and the debuffs are good for them.
 
yrsillar said:
Okay, so the site was being weird and I lost my first attempt at editing the character sheet. So now its quite late. I will answer all of my tags in the morning.

That said I will make a few notes now.

No Zeqing action will be added, she's busy at the moment.
AE has been added to the update and the sheet
Final tech for FSA has been nerfed a bit, on a second look it was a bit much. bonus damage reduced by one qi cost increased by three.
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What the purpose of the final tech ? Seems like MS four arrows overtakes it in damage except in the most fringe of circomstances, and is cheaper.

BungieONI said:
That's an interesting idea. Hmmm... why would they want to though...

Well they don't benefit from lowlight, yet(I think they may eventually being darkness techs and all), the dice bonus in the initial application is nifty and the debuffs are good for them.
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Action economy for us. We can have worm + breath as a single action (assuming they don't get AoE insta-gibbed). Also using teh worms Qi for the skill means not using Ling Qi's.
 
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@yrsillar I see we've got 129/180 on physical, and have gotten our heart meridian. I was just wondering what the overflow on that was? If there was any, I think we should be higher on physical, since 129 was what we had before heart meridian...
 
Klaus said:
It's a bit better than LS but I think we're mostly paying for the ability to shoot around corners.
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I don't really see the point since we can already teleport (though shadows), most cover is already irrelevant.

I guess it would be useful for a mid yellow pure archery user, but it doesn't seem all that great for Ling Qi.
And as shown in this update, Ling Qi, for all her sneaking around and darkness focus, hasn't integrated the concept of a sneak attack.
I mean imagine the attack with Ling Qi using Meteor shower instead of EncWinds debuff:
with the same roll (-4 for MS) she would have dished out 4*5+1 damage! And probably blinded him too, essentially ending the fight on the first shot.
Adhoc vote count started by Ayashi on Dec 23, 2017 at 4:00 AM, finished with 43769 posts and 61 votes.
  • [X] Plan: Flaming Fire + Woodworking
    -[X] Use: Highsun Pill
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18= 85RSS, 1 YSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] EPC Bonus: Abyssal Exhalation
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Major: Train at the Vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Attached Minor: Invite Su Ling to join in and spar with the Ma Sisters. She could use some partners closer to her level, and more friends besides
    -[X] Major: Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    --[X] Attached Minor: You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[X] Major: Cultivate on your Own
    --[X] Argent Current
    -[X] Major: Research Dragons, and how they might be appeased
    -[X] Major: Do a Job
    --[X] Wolfpack Hunt: A group of rinefur wolves have moved into the wilderness at the base of the mountains. Numbering nearly a score, with an alpha at the first stages of grade three, they cannot be allowed to remain. Eliminate the pack. 3 points for each slain wolf. 15 for the alpha.
    --[X] Invite Gu Xiulan
    -[X] Minor: Work to Unlock the Puzzle Box
    -[X] Minor: Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[X] Minor: Meizhen has been disappearing more often, she's even too busy to train this week. What is she up too?
    [X] Plan: The Final Countdown
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18=95RSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] EPC Bonus: Physical Cultivation
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Major: Train at the Vent with Su Ling (Arm Meridian)
    --[X] Attached Minor: Invite Su Ling to join in and spar with the Ma Sisters. She could use some partners closer to her level, and more friends besides
    -[X] Major: Explore and Train with Golden Fields (Thousand Ring Fortress)
    --[X] Attached Minor: You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[X] Major: Cultivate on your Own (Argent Current)
    -[X] Major: Research Dragons, and how they might be appeased
    -[X] Major: Do a Favor for Fu Xiang (2)
    -[X] Minor: Work to Unlock the Puzzle Box
    -[X] Minor: Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[X] Minor: You've learned what you can from simply observing Cai Renxiang. Ask her about the capital and about herself
    [X] Plan Steady as a Turtle
    -[X] Argent Vent Bonus -> Argent Current
    -[X] Grinning Moon Bonus -> Physical
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS (3), 1 YSS (10), Highsun Pill
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18=95RSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Cultivate Thousand Ring Fortress
    --[X] (minor) You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Open Arm Meridian
    --[X] (minor) Invite Su Ling to join in and spar with the Ma Sisters. She could use some partners closer to her level, and more friends besides
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Cultivate Argent Current
    -[X] Research Dragons, and how one might be appeased
    -[X] Do a favor for Fu Xiang
    --[X] Try for x2 Favors, but stop at 1 if the first heist doesn't go too well (i.e. we have used up our reroll)
    -[X] Meizhen has been disappearing more often, she's even too busy to train this week. What is she up too?
    -[X] Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[X] Work to unlock the Puzzle Box
    [x] Plan Let's Try This Out
    -[X] Use: Highsun Pill
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18= 85RSS, 1 YSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] EPC Bonus: Abyssal Exhalation
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Argent Vent Bonus -> Argent Current
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Open Arm Meridian
    ---[X] (minor) You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Cultivate Thousand Ring Fortress
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Cultivate Argent Current
    ---[x] (minor) Work to unlock the Puzzle Box
    -[X] Research Dragons, and how one might be appeased
    -[x] Take a job
    -[x] Wolfpack Hunt
    --[x] Invite Xiulan
    -[X] Meizhen has been disappearing more often, she's even too busy to train this week. What is she up too?
    -[X] Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[x] You've learned what you can from simply observing Cai Renxiang. Ask her about the capital and about herself
    [X] Plan Favorless
    -[X] Argent Vent Bonus -> Argent Current
    -[X] Grinning Moon Bonus -> Abyssal Exhalation
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS (3), 1 YSS (10), Highsun Pill
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18=95RSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Cultivate Argent Current
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Open Arm Meridian
    --[X] (minor) Invite Su Ling to join in and spar with the Ma Sisters. She could use some partners closer to her level, and more friends besides
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Cultivate Thousand Ring Fortress
    --[X] (minor) Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[X] Research Dragons, and how one might be appeased
    -[x] Take a job
    --[X] Passion Fruit Collection
    -[X] Meizhen has been disappearing more often, she's even too busy to train this week. What is she up too?
    -[X] You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[x] You've learned what you can from simply observing Cai Renxiang. Ask her about the capital and about herself
    [X] Plan: Flaming Fire + Woodworkin
    [X] Plan TOKEN DOOMED RESISTANCE
    -[X] Use: Highsun Pill
    -[X] Purchase: Channel Cleansing Pill (2) + Heavy Rains Pill (10) + Gushing Spring Pill (2) + Flowing Rivers Pill (6) + Both Fire Pills (2+6) + Vigorous Sapling Pill (2) + Second Wood Pill (6) + Bear Marrow Elixir (4) + Bear's Heartsblood Elixir (10) + White Hart Elixir (6) + Steady Growth Pill (8) + Sturdy Oak Pill (18)
    -[X] Total resources consumed: 3+10+2+10+2+6+2+6+2+6+4+10+6+8+18= 85RSS, 1 YSS, 1 Highsun Pill
    -[X] EPC Bonus: Abyssal Exhalation
    -[X] Overflow -> Physical
    -[X] Major: Train at the Vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Attached Minor: Invite Su Ling to join in and spar with the Ma Sisters. She could use some partners closer to her level, and more friends besides
    -[X] Major: Explore and Train with Golden Fields
    --[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    --[X] Attached Minor: You never did get to go out have a night on the proverbial town with Xiulan, see if she's still up for that
    -[X] Major: Cultivate on your Own
    --[X] Argent Current
    -[X] Major: Research Dragons, and how they might be appeased
    -[X] Major: Do a Job
    --[X] Wolfpack Hunt: A group of rinefur wolves have moved into the wilderness at the base of the mountains. Numbering nearly a score, with an alpha at the first stages of grade three, they cannot be allowed to remain. Eliminate the pack. 3 points for each slain wolf. 15 for the alpha.
    --[X] Invite Gu Xiulan
    -[X] Minor: Zhengui's pyre had begun to dim, shrinking no matter how much fuel you add. You should be there when he emerges
    -[X] Minor: Speak with Han Jian, about Argent Storm and the Golden Fields. What is his home like?
    -[X] Minor: Your feelings regarding Gu Tai are... conflicted, maybe you should speak with him a bit. You know where he is staying.
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yrsillar said:
Final tech for FSA has been nerfed a bit, on a second look it was a bit much. bonus damage reduced by one qi cost increased by three.
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Hmm. Less overpowering now, but that has made it look pretty boring.
Compare FSS to LS. Same effect and bonus damage; only FSS gets +4 dice, +2 DV, and ignores obstacles/armor, at the cost of +4 Qi. It isn't bad, but it is rather boring as a capstone; just Luminescent Star++. I don't suppose you might spruce the effect up somehow to make the art more interesting?
 
Ayashi said:
I don't really see the point since we can already teleport (though shadows), most cover is already irrelevant.

I guess it would be useful for a mid yellow pure archery user, but it doesn't seem all that great for Ling Qi.
And as shown in this update, Ling Qi, for all her sneaking around and darkness focus, hasn't integrated the concept of a sneak attack.
I mean imagine the attack with Ling Qi using Meteor shower instead of EncWinds debuff:
with the same roll (-4 for MS) she would have dished out 4*5+1 damage! And probably blinded him too, essentially ending the fight on the first shot.
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They were not trying to kill here. Only capture. And MS is a good way to accidentally someone.
 
So I'm taking my time weighing the different plans since yrsillar is still going through stuff. I'm actually in favor for doing the, well, favor this turn, but not for the punching down reasoning given earlier.

We seem to be generally agreed that Fu Xiang's favor should be done at some point, because we want Ling Qi to be someone who honors her debts, and we would prefer to be on Not!Kabuto's good side rather than his bad side. The reason that we can easily fit the heist into our plans here despite it being a Major action is because we're near the end of our breakthrough preparations, with most of our Arts capped, so our action economy's pretty open.

This will not be the case during breakthrough, due to the multiple breakthrough attempts, and especially not after breakthrough, because it'll be tournament crunch time and we'll want to dedicate as many Majors to Spiritual, Physical, and our then-uncapped Arts as possible. Getting this annoyance out of the way now will make our post-Green schedule simpler.

Additionally, there are things that I want to employ Fu Xiang's services for, namely at least pointing us in the direction of that last damn Argent Art. And we can hardly ask him for any more pointers until we're square with him. We've been hinted at that the "Argent Set" provides some kind of bonus. Whether that bonus is standalone or dependent on breakthrough is unknown. It may not be possible to unlock it in time before our planned breakthrough, and I'm not saying we should postpone for it, but I'd prefer to get it first if we can.

Fu Xiang's confident we can carry out this heist, so even though waiting until we're Green and have the Larceny tool would guarantee success, our current odds should be good regardless.

Now otherwise the differences between leading plans are Minors, and it's a hard choice between them. Being there for Zhengui's breakthrough is non-negotiable. People are afraid that the MaSuMa action will disappear if we keep leaving it alone, which is a valid concern. We haven't had a proper social outing with Xiulan in a month or so. The two leading differences are Cai vs Meizhen.

We only have a few turns until breakthrough, and even though it's likely that votes will go to accepting Cai's offer anyway and her action isn't time sensitive in a vacuum, some argue that it will be better for Ling Qi if they're actually friends beforehand, and this is the first "getting to know you" description. The change in Meizhen's description indicates that it is time sensitive, and it's now interfering with training. Although it could be argued that Meizhen has whatever it is well in hand, and we can trust her to handle it?

Honestly I'm wondering if one of the Plan leaders would consider dropping the Puzzlebox in favor of the opposing social? I know, I know, neglecting the shiny is heresy, getting it out of the way now means not worrying about it later, and we can't reap it's benefits until we open it. But out of all the contentious Minors, it's the only one that's not on some kind of timer. So can we leave it till next turn?
 
Ayashi said:
I mean imagine the attack with Ling Qi using Meteor shower instead of EncWinds debuff:
with the same roll (-4 for MS) she would have dished out 4*5+1 damage! And probably blinded him too, essentially ending the fight on the first shot.
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Uh, the difference isn't just -4. We had 33 dice on Encircling Winds. On Meteoric we have 24 dice. That's a big difference.
 
[X] Plan: Flaming Fire + Woodworking

I'm wondering though, for doing the favor, and noting the conditional, why not expand the conditional to 3 robberies if the first two go well enough that we still have the reroll?
Not that I will switch over it, I want the larceny talisman first.

Just curious
 
Ok i will make a post explaining my vote when i get access to a computer. Still, a big suedtion for @yrsillar as that is relevant now:

If we do closed door breakthrough next week, do we have 3 or 1 minor left? As in, do we lose both attached minors as well as unattached ones because breakthrough are alone time?

Or can we work some of them out to be attached even then, or simply have three unattached given breakthrough week will be quick to write and a bit empty with one minor.
[X] Plan: Flaming Fire + Woodworking
 
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