Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Eh on investing in more argent arts. We've been told that going in on these generally means building around Argent Arts pretty much entirely, and that they're just a bunch of good arts otherwise. Asking a favor from Cai isn't worth it.

If we can't literally fit 1-2 actions in to build up a specialty (e.g., music, stealth) then we absolutely shouldn't go looking for a random art that has quite probably has nothing to do with our build. If we can devote potential time to looking for the argent art, then we can spend it on a more in-build art instead.
But the shiny breakthrough bonuses...
 
Yeah I think most people would vote to get the last Argent Art if the action comes up because otherwise we'd die not knowing what the breakthrough bonus for getting the full set is.
 
Just the armor granted by the tech itself.
To clarify, for the following case:
- we have 2 robe armor (durability 8) and 2 HRA armor.
- we're lose a defense clash by 5 dice vs an attack with DV5, AP3 and no bonus damage.

Which of the following is the actual outcome?
1. AP negates robe armor, we take 3 damage (2 of the original 5 was blocked by HRA armor) and robe loses 1 durability.
2. AP negates robe armor, we take 3 damage (2 blocked by HRA) and robe doesn't lose durability.
3. HRA blocks 2 damage, effective "remaining" AP is 1 which negates 1 robe armor and we take 2 damage (1 blocked by robe). Robe loses a point of durability.
 
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Why is the argent art write in gamey? Ling Qi explicitly noted last week that "With three Argent arts active, Ling Qi felt slightly strange, like she was on the verge of something." Why wouldn't she look for the fourth argent art after that? And while she hasn't explicitly said in character that she knows there is a fourth argent art that's heaven/earth, she easily smart enough to see the obvious pattern.

[X] Plan Emerald Sea with Gan
The gameyness of it is that it tries to get a free minor action. I'd be all in favor of a custom minor trying to buy the info off of Fu Xiang but trying to get the same info with an "oh by the way" free action feels cheap.

[X] Plan Emerald Sea

Chad Largehuge can handle anything but a Liling interrupt, which we also cannot handle. We're past the point where loot is super relevant. I'd rather shore up our social links than get into a fight for fighting's sake. Su Ling and the Ma sisters are both more important than Gan Guangli right now.
 
Yeah I think most people would vote to get the last Argent Art if the action comes up because otherwise we'd die not knowing what the breakthrough bonus for getting the full set is.
If there is a breakthrough bonus for getting the whole set, which is questionable.

The feeling that we were on the verge of something came from having 3 argent arts equipped, and will probably be revealed when we have the 4th one equipped. However, there is little indication that it gives a breakthrough bonus and not something else. All the signs point to something that we get when we have all 4 argent arts equipped.

My personal theory is that we get access to Argent Genesis rather than the argent element.
 
But the shiny breakthrough bonuses...
While I somewhat disagree on "we can't get people to get any art that fits our speciality" @Shadell said, as we mostly do OK there, and a good part of waiting to get stuff is because we don't want to get bogged down in "having all the arts, no time to train any", it is frustrating that we don't seem to be able to just say "yup, that's not something we need" to a shiny.

We've been very lucky so far that we are able to do a semi-fast breakthrough with most everything capped, but a good part of this is "not looking for ever more things", and sometimes it's not because something is really powerful that it's really powerful for us.
 
If there is a breakthrough bonus for getting the whole set, which is questionable.

The feeling that we were on the verge of something came from having 3 argent arts equipped, and will probably be revealed when we have the 4th one equipped. However, there is little indication that it gives a breakthrough bonus and not something else. All the signs point to something that we get when we have all 4 argent arts equipped.

My personal theory is that we get access to Argent Genesis rather than the argent element.

Even if we only get argent element for having all four arts, that should result in a breakthrough bonus too I think, though I admit that the element bonuses seem pretty weak.
 
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While I somewhat disagree on "we can't get people to get any art that fits our speciality" @Shadell said, as we mostly do OK there, and a good part of waiting to get stuff is because we don't want to get bogged down in "having all the arts, no time to train any", it is frustrating that we don't seem to be able to just say "yup, that's not something we need" to a shiny.

We've been very lucky so far that we are able to do a semi-fast breakthrough with most everything capped, but a good part of this is "not looking for ever more things", and sometimes it's not because something is really powerful that it's really powerful for us.
Yeah, but Green promises to be a slog in an entirely different paradigm, and assuming that the Argent Soul's breakthrough bonii are mirrored or equalled by equipping the full set of Arts is an incredibly strong card to play for an early advantage in the Inner Sect when Qi will be at her most vulnerable due to not being ready to handle entrenched Greens with her immediate skill set.

Iirc you dislike the Cai vassalage option, right? Then quicker green progress has a better chance of attracting Elder investment, no matter the form that progression takes.
 
Yeah, but Green promises to be a slog in an entirely different paradigm, and assuming that the Argent Soul's breakthrough bonii are mirrored or equalled by equipping the full set of Arts is an incredibly strong card to play for an early advantage in the Inner Sect when Qi will be at her most vulnerable due to not being ready to handle entrenched Greens with her immediate skill set.
I'd argue that Ling Qi would have higher chances to be able to handle entrenched Greens if she instead focus on synergistic arts with her build, and not having 3 different builds that don't really mesh together.
Iirc you dislike the Cai vassalage option, right? Then quicker green progress has a better chance of attracting Elder investment, no matter the form that progression takes.
I actually am for the Cai + Sect option :p I'm a huge fan of thief stuff for Ling Qi, and thinks that CRX offers the best opportunity to do spywork.

I am just not a fan at all about 'theories' about how CRX is totally the best option from every single point of view (she sucks for freedom and sucks for art, but there is no good option for the former and the latter can be remedied with sect).
 
While I somewhat disagree on "we can't get people to get any art that fits our speciality" @Shadell said, as we mostly do OK there, and a good part of waiting to get stuff is because we don't want to get bogged down in "having all the arts, no time to train any", it is frustrating that we don't seem to be able to just say "yup, that's not something we need" to a shiny.

We've been very lucky so far that we are able to do a semi-fast breakthrough with most everything capped, but a good part of this is "not looking for ever more things", and sometimes it's not because something is really powerful that it's really powerful for us.
I don't wan't those arts in our build. I just want the breakthrough bonus.

The last argent art is precisely powerful for us, because we have the other three and the last one should unlock hopefully-permanent improvements of some form.
 
I don't wan't those arts in our build. I just want the breakthrough bonus.

The last argent art is precisely powerful for us, because we have the other three and the last one should unlock hopefully-permanent improvements of some form.
Or, it offers a set bonus while you have all four (or their successors) equipped, and nothing otherwise.
 
I don't wan't those arts in our build. I just want the breakthrough bonus.

The last argent art is precisely powerful for us, because we have the other three and the last one should unlock hopefully-permanent improvements of some form.
I personally believe that, if having all 4 argent art give a breakthrough bonus, it will be a breakthrough bonus that applies to argent arts (say, +1 Qi reduction when using Argent Element). Not something I consider actually good for us, even though it would be powerful.
 
I personally believe that, if having all 4 argent art give a breakthrough bonus, it will be a breakthrough bonus that applies to argent arts (say, +1 Qi reduction when using Argent Element). Not something I consider actually good for us, even though it would be powerful.
Even if it's true, it'd still be relevant since we will keep Argent Mirror(+?) for a long time, and given it's unique elements we are never going to equipt any talisman relevant for it.

The passives are damn useful and unique, and Serene Reflection self dispel is too good to take out, assuming Ling Qi remembers to actually use it as opposed to continue running for hours with the debuff like when against Sun Liling.
 
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IF argent arts were really that powerful we would hear about it more, most cultivators use their clan arts + various stuff they are talented at. Also sect leader is only prism, 2 levels below Moon spirit, and Moon arts include stuff we are actually good at - music and stealth.

If we want to ask for favour, better ask for special equipment or extra sect points.
 
Xiulan just dumped the major awkward marriage interview on our lap, i'm pretty sure IC Ling Qi is pissed/crossed/whatever with her right now.
And between the specific minor and group training we do interact with her virtually every week.

Why would Ling Qi be mad at Xiulan? She has known that Xiulan's family was going to do this for months in response to her growth/talent, as Xiulan warned her, and Xiulan herself hasn't pressured Ling Qi to accept the proposal at all. She recently said to Meizhen that even if she doesn't think it's likely she'll take the option, she prefers choice over not. With the Gu arrangement being the specific option brought up.

Beyond that, none of her interactions with Xiulan have had any indication that she's angry with her, even passively from what I've read. Am I missing a passage somewhere where she's expressed discontent with Xiulan rather than wariness over her family's intentions?
 
[X] Plan Emerald Sea

Begging for the 4th Argent Art is ... ehhhhh.

If we really want that last art, it would be better to learn all our known Argent arts towards at least level 3, and then figure out out to find it. Exploring for another trial, ask around for how the art manifests itself so we can steal from people that appear to know and use the art... There are much more interesting methods.

(It's very unfortunate. I would have liked to vote to interact with the Cai faction muscledude...)
 
Even if we only get argent element for having all four arts, that should result in a breakthrough bonus too I think, though I admit that the element bonuses seem pretty weak.
People keep saying this but it doesn't strike me as being true. Yes they weren't as good as the 'did you avoid being an idiot and actually put in the groundwork bonuses' but they weren't bad at all.

For example, the Darkness mastery got us an instant dot in stealth. So elemental masteries can basicallly instantly pull you to the same level of mastery of a particular subject as someone of your cultivation realm. Wind mastery was admittedly somewhat underwhelming at +1 Initiative. But that was a full quarter of the passive initiative bonuses we had back then (we had 4) without taking up a single meridian (The arts boosting int took 4 but admittedly had a fair number of other bonuses.

I think people are comapring them to other things, like our current bonuses from Arts. But the end of every cultivation realm is an exponential step up from the end of the last and I expect the breakthrough bonuses to reflect that. And even if they don't instantly adding a dot to a high level skill is pretty valuable if a bonus goes that way.
 
To clarify, for the following case:
- we have 2 robe armor (durability 8) and 2 HRA armor.
- we're lose a defense clash by 5 dice vs an attack with DV5, AP3 and no bonus damage.

Which of the following is the actual outcome?
1. AP negates robe armor, we take 3 damage (2 of the original 5 was blocked by HRA armor) and robe loses 1 durability.
2. AP negates robe armor, we take 3 damage (2 blocked by HRA) and robe doesn't lose durability.
3. HRA blocks 2 damage, effective "remaining" AP is 1 which negates 1 robe armor and we take 2 damage (1 blocked by robe). Robe loses a point of durability.

1 would happen

Patron interlude imminent
 
Excerpt: Ancestors Sublime
As any cultivator knows, foundation is the most important key to success in one's way. A weak foundation will crumble under pressure, while a powerful one will endure all but the greatest of shocks. As in many things, this is not true solely of cultivation. Clans, provinces, even the empire itself depend greatly upon the foundations laid down by our esteemed ancestors, without which our great land would be far the lesser. To be an Immortal of the great Empire is to build upon greatness long established, and to to in turn build an future even more grand for our descendants, forever granting our people supremacy over the squabbling barbarous scum which hounds our borders, jealously seeking to steal scraps of our greatness.

A core component of our collective foundation is threefold. The institutions and laws which keep order among us is the first pillar, refined by millennia, and improved by each true emperor or empress in turn. The second are the many great spirits ascended from our ranks over the years, who watch over us even to this day. The third is, of course, the Sublime Ancestors, the mighty entities which carry the greatest clans upon their backs, and which ensure that the empire will never truly fall.

It is of them that this treatise will speak. This humble scholar has spent much time traveling the breadth of the empire, compiling history and legend in order to create this definitive text on the often mysterious ancestors. In this opening chapter, this treatise will provide brief summary of the known Ancestors of the empire. Later chapters will discuss more in depth each entities history and known traits.

Without further ado, we will begin with the greatest of the ancestors. The Celestial Dragon, the mighty companion of the Sage Emperor himself, who challenged the proud scions of pre imperial tribes and emerged victorious in every battle, falling only to basest treachery. The Celestial Dragon is the most visible of the Ancestors. On a clear day, he can occasionally be seen in his eternal circling above the Imperial Capital, far, far above the clouds.

The Dragon is however somewhat unusual, in that he is not tied to a clan, but rather the imperial seat itself, as the corrupt dynasts which oversaw the fall of the First and Second Dynasties saw to their horror. The great Mu, greatest of the imperial dynasties have learned well from the lessons of their predecessors, and continue to enjoy the Dragons eternal favor.

In the time since the Celestial Dragons righteous fury was spent upon the western jungles, and the vile demon its inhabitants worship, the Dragon has only acted twice, and each time has seen the fall of a dynasty. The corrupt and decadent false emperors reduced to dust by divine lightning for their sins, paving the way for more virtuous rulers.

Though it may be the greatest of their kind, the Celestial Dragon is not the eldest, that honor belongs to the Grandmother Serpent, who sleeps in the deepest depths of the Thousand Lakes province. There is some dispute over the matter, the Bai and the Zheng both claim their histories the longer one, but most Imperial historians agree that the Bai's claim is the more credible one. Grandmother Serpent is an Ancestor in truth, the mother of the Eight half spirit daughters from which all branches of the extensive Bai clan descend. Since descending into slumber at the ascension of the youngest of the Eight, Grandmother Serpent has only awoken once. When the Sage Emperor came to the Thousand Lakes and courted the favor and hand of the White Serpent Queen, he proved his worth he was forced to contend with his prospective wife's ancestor is a rather more direct fashion than most suitors, in order to prove his worth.

The bay formed by their contest remains the most prominent port in Thousand Lakes to this day.

The Zheng clans Ancestor, which I have previously mentioned, is the Reveler. The most active of the Ancestors, as well as the smallest physically. He takes the form of a great black furred monkey twice the height of a man. Though his physical form remains in silent meditation under the hollowed mountain where the Zheng make their clan home, he is known to be active in a way other Ancestors are not, projecting fragments of his might across the province to do as he wills. It is from this that the Ebon Rivers province gained its rich brewing tradition and strict rules of hospitality.

One never knows if the traveler at the door might be the Reveler after all, best to have a drink and a good tale on hand. The Reveler is a benign entity, unless driven to rage by ill-manners. It is said that the Sage Emperor's rapid and bloodless conquest of the Ebon Rivers was due to a week long drinking contest in which the Reveler declared him a brother and honorary Zheng.

We come then to the youngest of the active Ancestors. The Living Isle, home of the Xuan. A mighty Serpent Tortoise upon which the rulers of the Savage Seas make their home. Unlike the others, it was a step below what we know as the white stage during the time of the emperor, a mighty best indeed, but still below the level of an Ancestor. It is however the only one of the two Ancestors to engage in true lethal battle during imperial history.

In the days of the second dynasty, the barbarians of the far northern isles arose in force against the noble men and women of the savage seas, even going so far as to awaken the great demon of the depths which they worship. A monstrous and hideous creature best left undescribed. The Xuan had no choice but to awaken their ancestor to combat it.

The resulting storm tsunamis and earthquakes reduced much of the province to rubble and even shattered ports further inland on the Alabaster Coast, but in the end, the Sea Folks demon was driven back, and the Empire was victorious.

The last of the active ancestors belongs, of course, to the illustrious and virtuous Mu Clan, of the Third and greatest dynasty. The Herald of Endings takes the form of a vast, white owl, whose wings cover the sky, and whose shadow lays bare the sins of the wicked. Her perch lies at the mist shrouded peak of mount Tai. In the wake the terrible invasion of the southern barbarians, then Prince An sought wisdom from his Ancestor in bolstering those parts of the realm which had begun to fail.

The Ministry of Integrity was established shortly thereafter, reinforcing our great empire and ensuring further millenia of prosperity.

Sadly, as their clans declined or events lead to their downfall, other Ancestors have left our world. The Horned Lord vanished into the depths of Emerald Sea, disgusted with his craven descendants, the Purifying Sun expended herself annihilating the greatest threat the Empire has seen, and the Grandfather of Tides fell into such a deep torpor that his body dissolved into the seas.

Yet, even these have laid the foundations for others to rise stronger than before. The Guo of Golden Fields have their Father Fortress, the titanic scorpion upon which they cross the wastes of their province, and in the south The Duchess Cai has gone further than any before in the creation and enhancement of object spirits. Even in loss, even in hardship, we prevail, growing stronger with every decade.

Each of the entities mentioned could of course be a book unto itself, the following chapters will attempt to expand on each as much as space allows...

-Excerpt from 'Ancestors Sublime'
 
[X] Plan Emerald Sea

There are a couple of concerns that I have for the Gan action. I want to stay out of Sun Liling's thoughts as much as possible right now, and that goal is counterproductive to joining Gan on the raiding. The people will report back that it was Gan and Ling Qi leading the anti-raiding parties and Sun will have another reason to remember us. The more she has to deal with that does not involve us the better in my book.

I also don't like the free action regarding asking about the whereabouts of the 4th argent art. I don't particularly care about the 4th argent art and it seems weird that Cai would know anything about it. Much better to ask Fu Xiang in my opinion, he has a better chance of knowing about the argent arts and who might have one.

Other than that, I like the Ma twins as characters better than GG. They have excellent synergy together and I feel that we can be more ourselves around them then we can with GG with his constant enthusiasm for justice.
 
Anyway since starting the dragon quest doesn't seem like it's going to win I'm going to change my vote and whilst I really like Su Ling and want her to have more friends the possibility of a strong bonus from completing the argent set wins it for me.

[X] Plan Emerald Sea with Gan
 
[X] Plan Emerald Sea with Lan Lan

That's the plan that I actually prefer most.

[X] Plan Emerald Sea

My mind's changed regarding the Gan action, though.
 
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