Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

You know, at a certain point it just becomes weird adding friend bonuses to EPC...

Like, the Meizhen bonus we got was her giving us some tips. Which is fine at the start, but now I'm not sure she could really help us much.

Honestly, @Katreus I can't see any justification for doing EPC with Su Ling. Heck, we do that at night! She isn't at the Vent then. I really feel that AM and EPC should be switched.

EPC isn't like our other arts where we practice using them with our friends.
 
On the subject of sitting on breakthrough rolls from Discord:

Raron - Today at 10:01 AM
@yrsillar Is there any downside to making first 2 breakthroughs now, and waiting for weeks with last one

Yrsillar - Today at 10:02 AM
Not particularly

We might want to take that with a grain of salt though, as yrsillar is the Master of UnderstatementTM, as shown by Xiulan's life or death rolls being described as "a bit of fun."
 
This may be a stupid idea but it's something that's been bugging me for a while.

@yrsillar is there anything beyond the stones in the Argent vent? An area we can see? It's been described as a crack, a cleft and a vent. Is there a point inside we can get to (possibly with SCS) past the spirit stones?

My thinking is that the argent energy is coming from somewhere, and that somewhere may be the other trial site. It's the sort of tricky thinking a sect elder might enjoy. Hiding a greater gift within another gift. Many people satisfied with the gift of finding the argent vent would never think to look further and find an ever greater gift hidden within.
 
Lastly, should a person be under this effect, their allies can not target or affect the victim deliberately, and vice versa. This is the slightly confusing part, but what I am getting from this is that while the target could see us and their allies could see us and affect us, they can not affect each other.

Correct.

it's an "alone in the mist" effect. The target can't perceive his allies, only enemies.
 
Seriously, thoughts on actually talking to our allies before haring off after Sun?

Should Find Meridians be switching out Han Jian for Gan or something?
We are talking to Meizhen and Han Jian, both knowing a lot about that. Sun Liling scouting is a job given by CRX, so Meizhen/Han Jian would know if anything has changed there. I would prefer Gan Guangli instead of Han Jian, but we have been ignoring the GF group for a long time, so spending more actions on Han Jian now is I think good for rebuilding our SL.

Obviously, though, CRX would have told us last week if it did change and she wanted us to stop doing that job.
[] Plan: Surprise! I'm secretly invincible!

Just a reminder that plan Find Meridians doesn't include a Cai action, which is prewtty important considering her offer.
It includes the Meizhen action, which is a Cai action. Han Jian action also either is a Cai action or unlock one.
 
We are talking to Meizhen and Han Jian, both knowing a lot about that. Sun Liling scouting is a job given by CRX, so Meizhen/Han Jian would know if anything has changed there. I would prefer Gan Guangli instead of Han Jian, but we have been ignoring the GF group for a long time, so spending more actions on Han Jian now is I think good for rebuilding our SL.

Obviously, though, CRX would have told us last week if it did change and she wanted us to stop doing that job.

It includes the Meizhen action, which is a Cai action. Han Jian action also either is a Cai action or unlock one.
I feel like I'm missing something. How are Mei and Han Jian Cai actions? They don't involve meeting her that I am aware of.
 
I feel like I'm missing something. How are Mei and Han Jian Cai actions? They don't involve meeting her that I am aware of.
Meizhen is an action that's talking about Cai, preparing us to meet her. Han Jian is a minor that should unlock a minor talking about Cai, or be that minor itself.
 
I feel like I'm missing something. How are Mei and Han Jian Cai actions? They don't involve meeting her that I am aware of.
Meizhen, at least, is a 'Cai action' in that it involves Cai Renxiang and is, perhaps, Ling Qi's indirect way of starting to investigate whether or not the heiress is worth her friendship and effort. Not sure how Arkeus means about Han Jian's action—I think it's just more of his optimism, assuming that after the trade Ling Qi will have the chance in coming weeks to bring it up and ask his opinion.
 
I feel like I'm missing something. How are Mei and Han Jian Cai actions? They don't involve meeting her that I am aware of.
The Meizhen action is asking her about Cai's offer. So if you define a Cai action as an action that furthers our attempts to determine whether accepting that offer is a good idea or not, then that is a Cai action.
 
The first zone is between 250 meters and 80 meters. This is a sniping zone, wherein we can really only use FSA. The most optimum use I can find for this would be if we spot an enemy or are assaulting an enemy camp and know where our target is and have a decent vantage point (Which may just be flying with our gown in a little hop as silly as that sounds) we can spam them with arrows until the enemy approaches. Given the width of this zone being 170 meters and most movement speeds being around 20 and 40 at double move at our current level, that is around four rounds to get there at which we could snipe. Our damage output is a bit low though
What makes you say that? By my eye, FSA is just about the best 1v1 damage output we can apply.

The third zone is between 20 and 10 meters. This is a new zone, and one which is especially dangerous since we have AE now. Here I would expect opponents to deal with AE, FVM, and with the Worms(and eventually Zhengui too).
Worms are not limited to 20 meters; they can move independently, and don't even require the purple mist.

We can also use Encircling Winds here if I recall correctly and that stacks very very well with the Worms.
AFAIK Encircling Winds doesn't specify a range, so it can be used within any "zone".

I'm not sure of the exact amount of our highest theoretical damage output, but taking down a Red in one attack should be easy with the worms and everything else also attacking.
Note that highest theoretical damage output isn't an especially useful metric. What matters is damage/action, with some modifier for Qi spent. The fact that we can do a bunch of damage at short range after spending multiple turns setting it up isn't particularly critical, I think.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Nov 5, 2017 at 5:18 PM, finished with 35763 posts and 53 votes.

  • [X] Plan Find Meridians
    -[X] Resources: 3x RS, 1x YS, Rippling Lake Pill (2), Stalwart Mountain Pill (2), Vigorous Sapling Pill (2), 2nd Level Pills for Lake + Mountain + Wood (18)
    -- [X] Restock Restoratives: 2x Wellspring Pill (6), 1x Spirit Restoration Pill (15) (Total: 21)
    -[X] Overflow: Qi
    -[X] EPC Bonus: EPC
    -[X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] EPC
    --[X] Training is nice, but you'd like to get to be better friends with Su Ling, perhaps you could see if she has any interest in music?
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] AM
    --[X] You need to speak with Meizhen, about Cai's offer and the future in general
    -[X] Train with the Golden Fields Group
    --[X] TRF
    -[X] Scout out Sun Liling's base of operations
    -- [X] Free: Let Meizhen know we're planning to do this
    -[X] Go on a trip to the spiders nest with Li Suyin
    -[X] Try to figure out the locking formations on the last bag
    -[x] Trade techniques with Han Jian, you can help each other work out the basics.
    [X] Plan: Surprise! I'm secretly invincible!
    -[X] Resources: Clear Wind Pill, Vigorous Sapling Pill, White Hart Elixir, Second Level Wood Pill 1 YSS, 3 RSS (Total Cost: 29 RSS)
    -[X] EPC Bonus Successes: Eight Phase Ceremony
    -[X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] Eight Phase Ceremony
    --[X] Minor: You need to speak with Meizhen, about Cai's offer and the future in general
    -[X] Train with the Golden Fields Group
    --[X] Fleeting Zephyr
    --[X] Minor: Trade techniques with Han Jian, you can help each other work out the basics.
    -[X] Scout out Sun Liling's base of operations
    -[X] Minor: Go on a trip to the spiders nest with Li Suyin
    -[X] Minor: Find the time for a chat with Guangli, even if he is biased, he's probably the one who knows Cai best
    -[X] Minor: Spend some time around Cai Renxiang, what does she actually do all day
    [X] Plan The Dark Storm
    -[X] Use: 3 RS; 1 YS
    -[X] Buy: Clear wind Pill (2); Vigorous Sapling Pill (2); White Hart Elixir (6); 2nd level wood pill (6); total (1 YS, 19 RS)
    -[X] EPC Bonus: EPC
    -[X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Train TRF
    --[X] Training is nice, but you'd like to get to be better friends with Su Ling, perhaps you could see if she has any interest in music?
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] EPC
    --[X] You need to speak with Meizhen, about Cai's offer and the future in general
    -[X] Train with the Golden Fields Group
    --[X] FZ
    -[X] Take a job
    --[X] Capture the Storm Spirits
    -[X] Try to figure out the locking formations on the last bag
    -[X] Go on a trip to the spiders nest with Li Suyin
    -[x] Trade techniques with Han Jian, you can help each other work out the basics.
    [X] Plan: Weathering the Argent Techniques.
    -[X] Resources: Gushing Spring Pill, Clear Wind Pill, First Level Thunder Pill, First Level Fire Pill, Vigorous Sapling Pill, White Hart Elixir, Second Level Wood Pill, Second Level Thunder Pill, Second Level Fire Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill. 70 Red Stones Total
    -[X] 1 Yellow Spirit Stone, 3 Red Spirit Stones.
    -[X] EPC Bonus Successes: Eight Phase Ceremony
    -[X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] Eight Phase Ceremony
    --[X] Minor: You need to speak with Meizhen, about Cai's offer and the future in general
    -[X] Train with the Golden Fields Group
    --[X] Argent Storm
    --[X] Argent Current
    --[X] Minor: Trade techniques with Han Jian, you can help each other work out the basics.
    -[X] Minor: Go on a trip to the spiders nest with Li Suyin
    -[X] Minor: Find the time for a chat with Guangli, even if he is biased, he's probably the one who knows Cai best
    -[X] Minor: Spend some time around Cai Renxiang, what does she actually do all day
 
Demanding any constructs to be equal to the summoner is rather greedy, isn't it? You're adding another combatant. Even if it's weaker than all the others, it's still quite the advantage as long as it doesn't instantly die to random AoE.

Like, in card games along the lines of MtG, suppose a creature that summons another. If each of these eats a card from your opponent to deal with each of these, playing the single card generates card advantage—having more resources left. They also have to spend time dealing with your extra threats if they demand extra answers—so you gain tempo. There's lots of famous cards like this. In Ling Qi's system, if Ling Qi summons the worms, assuming they're durable and threatening 'enough', they can generate an advantage (in terms of qi or spent actions), even if they're not precisely an equal to her or her opponent.

Against an opponent with mostly single target answers, the worst case scenario is Ling Qi coming out even on actions, down on qi—this demands that the worm be one-shotable by the opponent and that Ling Qi only summons one worm. Given that Ling Qi has unusual qi reserves and acceptably Darkness-focused expenses, even this is not exactly a bad scenario. If Ling Qi spends 6 qi she gains an action against this single-target focused opponent, which is immense; not to mention that the extra worm got an attack off. Regardless of the outcome of that attack, Ling Qi's use of Crawling Horrors is a win.

Against an opponent with AoE answers, but AoE answers insufficient to oneshot the worms, then Ling Qi gains actions and is even on qi, and the worms can even get a chance to attack, at which point the worms have had actual tangible effect on the battle, which is either an opponent being grappled (and becoming easier for all the other effects to hit, ignoring any Ling Qi allies) or applying multiattacker penalties in the absolute worst case.

Against an opponent with AoE answers sufficient to oneshot the worms, well, this is clearly the wrong tool for the job. Just make them become lost with the new Elegy tech, so that they can't afford to do their blasting job without hitting their own allies, and don't swarm a blaster. This scenario is only relevant, then, if Ling Qi is not aware of her opponent's answers.

While that is going to be a reasonably common thing, especially in the wider world, partial-information games like battle are not unbeatable, especially if Ling Qi begins to play the information game more.

Crawling Horrors is an important part of Ling Qi's toolbox. Opponents without clean answers either get bogged down by the worms or use up actions dealing with the adds, and opponents shown to have clean answers can be whisked into the nightmare realm of Ling Qi's personal Encircling Winds attention, or just lost conveniently on their way to the battle.
You have good points, but I think this doesn't sufficiently drill down into what our actual situation is likely to be.

If we are fighting against someone at Late Yellow+, the worms are basically useless. They have on the order of 10-15 dice, whereas I expect our enemies to have 20-25 dice at the very least. If you add a 2-autosuccess advantage, I don't think our enemies need to fight this thing at all; they could just ignore it and wait for its duration to expire.

If we are fighting against one person at Mid Yellow, we've probably won already. Our Woodwinds Specialty II means we fight as a Green there, which means we get 4 autosuccesses on them with FVM, which means we can almost certainly get them with just that.

If we are fighting against a group, then dropping a pair of Worms would cost us 1 action and 12 Qi, in return for typing up some of their weaker guys for 1-2 turns. That is NOT a good trade; we would be better served using that extra action to apply more AoE effects, and that extra Qi to block damage (possibly using TRF, if necessary).



So I'm having trouble imagining an actual situation where this Tech would be useful.
(Mind you - it is probably going to get much more palatable as we level up AE; but I don't think it is particularly usable now.)
 
On the subject of sitting on breakthrough rolls from Discord:

Raron - Today at 10:01 AM
@yrsillar Is there any downside to making first 2 breakthroughs now, and waiting for weeks with last one

Yrsillar - Today at 10:02 AM
Not particularly
The obvious downside of make breakthrough rolls early is that we don't get to use those actions for anything else. If we get breakthrough successes, they are just going to sit there, whereas if we had trained an art we would have a higher level art, or if we opened meridians we would have more meridians available, or if we did a sect mission we would have the points to take a tutoring action to set up a pill week.
 
The obvious downside of make breakthrough rolls early is that we don't get to use those actions for anything else. If we get breakthrough successes, they are just going to sit there, whereas if we had trained an art we would have a higher level art, or if we opened meridians we would have more meridians available, or if we did a sect mission we would have the points to take a tutoring action to set up a pill week.
If we pasz them all first try, sure. If we fail any of the rolls better to do it earlier than later, so we have more time to fit the additional rolls in when it's convenient for the week's plan.
 
If we pasz them all first try, sure. If we fail any of the rolls better to do it earlier than later, so we have more time to fit the additional rolls in when it's convenient for the week's plan.
If we fail, the failed effort will also be doing nothing for us. I would much rather fail on week 40 then week 32, because a week 32 action is more valuable then a week 40 action. Succeed or fail, doing the action earlier means that we have to do it with a more valuable earlier action instead of the less valuable later action.

The only benefit of breaking through earlier is that it helps us manage the timing of our breakthrough better. However, even then, this is something we want to start doing a couple of weeks before are ready to breakthrough at the earliest, because doing otherwise wastes the time-value of our actions.
 
While we're sitting at peak any spiritual cultivation bonuses are wasted- and most higher level stones and drugs are much better than lower ones.

I know it's tempting to go for every bonus under the sun, but maxing Eight Phase Cultivation and whatever else we can do in the next week or two is probably the best practical move.

If we try and fail on week 32 we can cruise back up to peak without much effort in the interim time without even devoting actions to spiritual cultivation. If we try and succeed, mid-Green by the tournament isn't impossible. If we ignore all the 'bonus' spiritual cultivation until week 38 and flub the breakthrough, it'll actually take a lot of actions to get to Green again because we WASTED eight weeks of passive spiritual cultivation.
 
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As for stuff they don't share.

I really actually want to talk to GG Bro because he is awesome, but that should show up next week. And so should the hang out with Cai minor. I don't want to front load all the Cai stuff though, since I feel it interferes with some other things I want to do(the bag and music).
See this is the part i really don't get why people are voting for.
On one side we have CRX's vassal-hood, a decision that will affect Ling Qi for arguably the rest of her foreseeable life, and on the other we have... having fun and looking at shiny mystery bag ? Seriously ?
None of minor for SuSu or the bag are going to disappear next week either.



So I'm having trouble imagining an actual situation where this Tech would be useful.
Imo the most interesting part if how the Art will grow. Two weak-ish worms for 12Q (or does reducing talis double-dip?) isn't great, but depending on what bonus they get at AE2/AE3 they could be very worthwhile.
They could gain cultivation levels, they could gain duration up to and including being summonable before a fight, they could symply be summoned in higher numbers, or even gain special abilities (ie: Poison fog?).


While we're sitting at peak any spiritual cultivation bonuses are wasted- and most higher level stones and drugs are much better than lower ones. I know it's tempting to go for every bonus under the sun, but maxing Eight Phase Cultivation and whatever else we can do in the next week or two is probably the best practical move.
One weekly action in Green would only really be more profitable than one in Late Yellow if EPC gives a virtual green stone, which we'll only know in 2-4weeks once we level up EPC (and probably soft cap it).

While there might be druggs/vents that can only be used starting Early Green, we don't have any, never seen any, nor does the sect shop have any to sell.
Heck, iirc we never seen anything that can be used in Yellow but couldn't be used in Red. Including the rare pills like sable or eightfold.
 
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If we fail, the failed effort will also be doing nothing for us. I would much rather fail on week 40 then week 32, because a week 32 action is more valuable then a week 40 action. Succeed or fail, doing the action earlier means that we have to do it with a more valuable earlier action instead of the less valuable later action.

The only benefit of breaking through earlier is that it helps us manage the timing of our breakthrough better. However, even then, this is something we want to start doing a couple of weeks before are ready to breakthrough at the earliest, because doing otherwise wastes the time-value of our actions.
Well, another benefit is being able to begin the work on our stronger arts in green. It's not impossible Zeqing could give us FVM successor if we finish FVM6 early enough, nor is it impossible to grab SCS+.

Making sure we have enough time in green itself will be worth it, too. It's just that we do have quite a bit of time.
See this is the part i really don't get why people are voting for.
On one side we have CRX's vassal-hood, a decision that will affect Ling Qi for arguably the rest of her foreseeable life, and on the other we have... having fun and looking at shiny mystery bag ? Seriously ?
None of minor for SuSu or the bag are going to disappear next week either.
This is why we must take our time with it. Talk to people, think about it, see Cai from time to time, and so on. Not try to cram every possible meeting about it in one week. We have something like 10 weeks to think about it, and rushing our decision won't help.
 
See this is the part i really don't get why people are voting for.
On one side we have CRX's vassal-hood, a decision that will affect Ling Qi for arguably the rest of her foreseeable life, and on the other we have... having fun and looking at shiny mystery bag ? Seriously ?
None of minor for SuSu or the bag are going to disappear next week either.

Neither will CRX's minors. And the first step into this whole decision is to determine whether vassalhood with anyone is a viable option or not. Of course, WE have more or less decided that it is probably the best path for Ling Qi, but SHE hasn't, and she doesn't even know enough to make an informed decision. That is why this week she should talk with Meizhen and maybe Han Jian too, to get more information about what we can expect from vassalhood in general.
 
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