Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Do we actually lose the Art if we trade it away, though? Can we not copy it down?
Whilst we don't lose the art it does mean handing a potential trump card to a strong competitor. Even if it's not very good for him it could tell him something about our fighting style.

The worst outcome is it turns out to be an amazing art for him and his is mediocre for us.

I'd like to get a look at it and learn if it's something really good for us (that we'd want to keep secret) or only ok (in which case I'm all for trading it). That said I do acknowledge that Xiualan may trade it away as well, so we should talk with her.
 

For all intents and purposes we do not lose the art we trade. We gave AM to Su Ling and Li Suyin, and we didn't lose the ability to train AM. I don't know how narratively the trade works, but we are perfectly capable of trading Argent arts to other people and not losing out on training them.
Great, then I don't see any problems?
Whilst we don't lose the art it does mean handing a potential trump card to a strong competitor. Even if it's not very good for him it could tell him something about our fighting style.

The worst outcome is it turns out to be an amazing art for him and his is mediocre for us.

I'd like to get a look at it and learn if it's something really good for us (that we'd want to keep secret) or only ok (in which case I'm all for trading it). That said I do acknowledge that Xiualan may trade it away as well, so we should talk with her.
Oh, I see. I consider the possibility of his art being advantageous as far outweighing keeping a single art "secret" until we use it.
 
[X] Plan Search and Destroy
Adhoc vote count started by Rhydarson on Oct 14, 2017 at 5:30 PM, finished with 129 posts and 18 votes.

  • [X] Plan Search and Destroy
    - [X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    -- [X] Xuan Shi seems pretty knowledgable, see if he can help you out with Zhengui's abilities.
    - [X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
    -- [X] Larceny / SCS
    -- [X] Investigation / AM
    - [X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    -- [X] Heart Meridian
    - [X] Train with Meizhen
    -- [X] TRF
    - [X] Search out Yan Renshu's main base, before he has time to pick up and move
    - [X] Gu Xiulan apparently returned in the dead of night without saying anything to anyone. What happened to her?
    - [X] Meet Han Jian, he found a trial, so perhaps you could set up a trade for another Argent Art?
    [X] Plan New Moon to Full Moon
    -[X] Resources: 1 yellow stone, 3 red stones, 1st and 2nd level wood pills (8), Gushing Spring Pill (2), Flowing Rivers Pill (6), total (1 yellow, 19 red stones)
    -[X] Spend time working with Zhengui to express his abilities
    --[X] Xuan Shi seems pretty knowledgable, see if he can help you out with Zhengui's abilities.
    -[X] Train with Elder Jiao (LOCKED)
    --[X] Larceny
    ---[X] SCS
    --[X]Resolve
    -- [X] TRF
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] FVM
    -[X] Search out Yan Renshu's main base, before he has time to pick up and move
    -[X] Take a Mission
    --[X] Capture the Storm Spirits
    -[X] Gu Xiulan apparently returned in the dead of night without saying anything to anyone. What happened to her?
    -[X] Working with Li Suyin again has been fun, continue working through the manual
    [X] Plan everything and sharing
    -[X] Resources: 3 RS, 1 YS, 1 qi expansion pill (inventory), Black ichor, Gushing spring pill (2), Flowing Rivers Pill (6), White Hart Elixir (6), 1st level Wood pill (2), 2nd Level wood Pill (6), 1 Steady Growth Pill (8), 1 Sturdy Oak Pill (18), 1 Qi Sea Pill (25) = 1 YS, 76 RS. (Change 1Y to 10R).
    -[X] Major Actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Train with Elder Jiao (LOCKED)
    --[X] Larceny
    ---[X] SCS
    --[X] Throwing knives
    ---[x] ZB+ (Take from archive)
    -[X] Train with Zeqing
    -[X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
    --[X] Do it on your own.
    ---[X] But tell Meizhen where we're going, so if we don't back she knows where to drop the hammer
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[x] TRF
    --[X] Share AC with Su Ling
    --[x] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
    ---[X] Share the contents with Li Suyin
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[x] Xuan Shi seems to be busy setting something up at the council meeting pavilion, perhaps you could help him out?
    --[X] Meizhen is going out shopping for something at the market, though she hasn't mentioned what. Tag along?
    [X] Plan Search and Destroy With AC
 
I just want to be able to see what the first level of the damn art would be like so we can work out if we want to train it or leave it languishing for a while longer.
 
Oh, I see. I consider the possibility of his art being advantageous as far outweighing keeping a single art "secret" until we use it.
In all honesty, there are two major possibilities when it comes to what art Han Jian got, both of which would be a major boon to us. As we have seen from what little pattern can be discerned from the argent arts, they appear to follow a dichotomy between the imperial 8 granting them "neutral" qi and to opposing elements. From that, there are two other options that we could get from trading an argent art to Han Jian. Either the "Heaven/Earth" or the "Wind/Thunder."

What these arts do is still up to debate. We can rationalize AM into Mental defenses/perception, and AC into (theoretically) Offense/support. If we only have two more major categories left, that leaves a physical defense and a movement art for generalizations, plus whatever special cookie they do for us.

A physical defense would help, but would also infringe and conflict with TRF. A movement art would also help, but only if it is a "point A to Point B" type of art, as we have 2 arts that increase our base speed already and a third, while useful, won't do any special to warrant training or getting it at this point.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong about all of this, but those are my thoughts on what type of argent arts there are available.
 
She did not want to end up alone again.
Yeah, ok, I'm not voting for any plan that doesn't include reconnecting with Han Jian. That's just not ok.

Also, I'm sad that Ling Qi probably can't really bond with Zeqing vis a vis Hanyi/Zhengui. :( The elements just clash so much, I can't see how e.g. lullabies Zeqing can teach Ling Qi would be useful for raising Zhengui. But I like the idea of Zeqing teaching Ling Qi how to raise a child via her own experiences with Hanyi.

"Well, it looks like the script of the hill tribes in this region before they accepted imperial rule," Li Suyin explained, interest lighting up her eye as she paged through the book. "Father had a handful of fragments in his collection, but nothing so complete."
:) Yes, Suyin, be happy! Actually, since Ling Qi isn't interested in formations, should we just straight up give the book to Suyin? She likes this sort of history, and she's good with formations. If she can link the puppets' senses to her's, then she can team up with Ling Qi as the other half-spymistress with her murder of spy-crows! Ceiling crow is watching you?

Also, bone puppets are just creepy enough to be in theme for the spider spirit she wants to bind. You know, dissolve the prey's skin and flesh as they're trapped in the webs, and then use their bones as her servants.

"I am from Jizhou," she replied easily, only to grow sheepish at Ling Qi's lack of recognition. "Um… it is the northernmost city in the province, and primary hub of trade for goods going to and from the central provinces, it is second only to the capital seat of the Emerald Seas in splendor and size," she doesn't seem displeased to talk about her home though.
...
Li Suyin chewed her on her lower lip for a moment, appearing deep in thought. "...Well, there isn't anything wrong with that. Tonghou city is still an important stop on the central north-south routes, even if the mines in the region are played out."
In other words, Jizhou is either a hotbed of Imperial authority or thoroughly under the sway of Cai Shenhua, and Tonghou is only a few steps up from podunk nowhere. Furthermore, it's amazing Suyin could bear to have lived in a hovel, if her family's so highly placed. Her family might only be nobility by mortal standards, but they're still nobility!

Ling Qi felt a cool hand fall on shoulder and jerked in surprise, instinctively pushing herself up and out of her seat to turn and face the person who had touched her. Unfortunately, she put too much force in the motion, practically launching herself out of her chair… only to crack her head against the low ceiling of the cavern.

She still managed to land on her feet, wincing as she rubbed the top of her head, which throbbed with the force of the impact. She peered warily through the gloomy room to see who had startled her so. It took only a moment to recognize the person in question, her portrait had been staring at her all week after all.

Xin stood beside her seat with a bemused expression, and one hand on her hip. She wore a gown of dark blue and black which glittered with starry light at her every movement. Her white hair was put up in an elaborate updo though pinned in place with glittering onyx pins and jewelry. "Feeling a little wound up dear?" She asked compassionately, though Ling Qi could see the twinkle of humor in her red eyes.
And here we see why Xin and Jiao are married: they are both complete trolls -- Xin, as the fragment of the Great Spirit of hidden mystery, absolutely knows Ling Qi's issues and what she was thinking (and what Ling Qi was not paying attention to). This whole introduction was set up for just that reaction.

"XIN," Ling Qi flinched as Elder Jiao's voice boomed through the cavern, rattling the furniture, the shadows in the room roiled and swelled, tendrils of absolute darkness, opaque even to her vision writhing across every surface as the light of the lantern flickered wildly. Worse still were the eyes, wide and glaring, gleaming like kaleidoscopes, that opened by the dozen across the shadows in the room.
Oooh, are these the Moon-aligned attack and perception arts? They were mentioned in Jiao's interlude, but we didn't see them. We know Jiao has an advanced version of probably-Xin's-variant-of SCS, and I guess the eyes-thing is Xin's variant of an perception art. So, which Moon does Ling Qi have to curry favor with to get the shadow attack art?

The grey skinned man gave her a flat look. "You are asking me to tutor you in the arts of thievery. Is that truly what you want to ask?"

Ling Qi looked down, shuffling her feet a little, ignoring Xin's laugh. "...Yes," she said in a small voice.

"My, what an insightful girl," Xin said, sounding smug.
...Xin just implied Jiao used to be a thieving urchin boy. I wonder what was gambled in the bet Xin and Jiao had going on.

45/15. First level reached

30/30 Second level reached
So, Fleeting Zephyr not only replaces Zephyr's Breath, the level track along with the associated required successes gets replaced, too. The base sux costs then are 20 sux first level, 45 sux second level, and then 65 sux third level. The third level doesn't even require another meridian.

In total, getting the evolution of ZB gave us bigger passives than TRF/AM (the probably-2nd-Realm arts), as well as a total of 4 great techniques in comparison to the normal 2 techs normally given for a new art. :D Shows why art chains are so desirable, and why even low level arts for the lower realms would be desirable to get and develop for the great families.

"A throne must be radiant, and solid as the mountain rock," he replied agreeably. "Theatre sways the hearts of the unworthy," he added in a much quieter tone. Going by the stillness in the air, she was quite sure only she heard that. That was useful.
Ah, so there's a hypothetical useful Earth art for Ling Qi -- enhancing stealth through stilling the air and muffling sound.

He tipped his hat marginally in her direction, definitely smiling now. "Other perspectives remain invaluable. Am I begrudged?"
You're cute, Xuan Shi. You, I like. If he is good with Zhengui, I advocate kidnapping him for Ling Qi's clan. If we base in the Emerald Sea province, we can even do it all legal and everything, we just need to make a trade deal! :D

...She really would have to get a better ring of her own though. Meizhen's spare had ten times the space hers did. The thought of filling it with loot warmed her heart.
Awww, Meizhan is such a Good Friend! ...There's a joke here about Ling Qi's heart growing ten sizes because of her friendship with Meizhan.

The cramped complex was not especially large, and consisted largely of work rooms and a few housing areas, there were a bit less than ten disciples present, and so she avoided stealing anything too obvious. No matter the urge to steal the large pill furnace in one of the rearmost rooms. Su Ling had indicated that those were very valuable, right?

She would get it on the way out.
Pity that this is a thieving mission. If we brought Meizhan (using Crescent's Grace and Formless Shade via Qi cards), we could have dropped two third realm fighters and Ling Qi's mist right in the middle of their base. (It's also sad that Xiulan is not so great at stealth. She probably would have been ecstatic at the opportunity to crush the people who ambushed her.)

Also, Ling Qi has great kleptomaniac instincts! Stealing the pill furnace should have gutted Yan Renshu's money making scheme.

She tore through the base like a sticky fingered hurricane, searching for signs of Yan Renshu. She tried to avoid distraction, but there was only so much she could do. Minor pills, talismans and stones abounded, and in one room she even found carefully organized parcels containing the required goods for several basic gathering quests, she shoveled it all into her ring, not even bothering to fight the grin stretching her lips.
Sticky fingered hurricane :D :D :D Ling Qi on a thieving spree is the best.

As long as she struck before he had much chance to change things anyway. Even if he did… knocking over this base alone would starve his group of resources, since it was his primary stone farming location.

And she was certainly going to report the place to Cai Renxiang after she left.

With her new pill furnace of course.

+300 Red Stones
+23 Yellow Stones
+1 Large Pill Furnace
+15 sect points
o_O That's ... That's a lot of money. Not even counting the pill furnace, that's 605 RSS equivalents right there. If Yan Renshu's main base is anything like this, we're set for stones for the rest of the year!

Are there any other wealthy factions we can steal from in the outer sect? There's Sun Liling and Kang Zihao, of course, who should have production track followers. Even better, they're both from important families in their home provinces, so if any have superior storage rings for Ling Qi to steal, they should.

[X] Plan Search and Destroy
Reconnects to both Han Jian and Gu Xiulan, as well as tags Xuan Shi into raising Zhengui, Yes! Also larceny and investigation training, which are going to be used with the Moon quest. 0.8 avg sux isn't much, but it's still valuable for something as important as the quest.
 
It was also suggested that the Argent arts would all use different meridians.
AM: Head/Spine
AC: Arm/Heart
We still have Leg and Lungs for the proposed Thunder/Wind and Earth/Heaven. The fact that the first two both use 2 different meridians arguably supports the idea of a Leg/Lungs movement art and the Earth/Heaven one being a cultivation art.
 
Whilst we don't lose the art it does mean handing a potential trump card to a strong competitor. Even if it's not very good for him it could tell him something about our fighting style.
there's a risk here, but it seems worth it. Provided he has an art different from us, that gives us three argent arts and we still have a trial available to clear based on one of the moon missions. With a little bit of luck, we have a chance of ending up with the fourth art from that trial. this gives us all four argent arts, which will be an important milestone both sect-wise and cultivation-wise, and for all we know could be a hidden test.
 
I really like the idea that one of the hidden ways to get in the inner sect is to get Argent Genesis through the trials, but that you can only do that if you got all the other argent arts beforehand.
 
I really like the idea that one of the hidden ways to get in the inner sect is to get Argent Genesis through the trials, but that you can only do that if you got all the other argent arts beforehand.
Even if it's not that good, there is almost certainly some bonus for having all 4 arts
 
Does anyone have any ideas for what the Cai action is about?

On the one hand it involves pills, and might involve Su Ling getting better opportunities, and I am all for that!

On the other it might be something like setting up the pill furnace to start training pill makers for her faction at less than the sect charge. Which I'm slightly more ambivilent to even if it gives us a source of constant income. It would also significantly strengthen Cai and might screw over Su Ling by giving others opportunities she won't get/take. And I am not ok with that.
 
On the other it might be something like setting up the pill furnace to start training pill makers for her faction at less than the sect charge. Which I'm slightly more ambivilent to even if it gives us a source of constant income. It would also significantly strengthen Cai and might screw over Su Ling by giving others opportunities she won't get/take. And I am not ok with that.
First off, we need to realize that Cai does not have an apparent strong grasp on pill cultivators at the moment. Through Xuan, she has a good grasp of formation crafters, but nobody in her inner circle is actually a pill crafter (that we know of) and it is pills that speed up the cultivation of people the most (other than spirit stones). Given that, creating a station where people can craft pills without paying the exorbitant prices that the sect charges (25 red stones a week? to use the furnaces?) allows Cai to cheaply buy those pills (lower creation costs, lower prices) and then give them to her underlings.

We benefit because we can ask the better pill makers to make unique pills for us, or just regular pills. It is, after all, through our generosity that Lady Cai has this opportunity to begin with. If we are able to buy really good custom made pills cheaply, our cultivation will skyrocket.
 
First off, we need to realize that Cai does not have an apparent strong grasp on pill cultivators at the moment. Through Xuan, she has a good grasp of formation crafters, but nobody in her inner circle is actually a pill crafter (that we know of) and it is pills that speed up the cultivation of people the most (other than spirit stones). Given that, creating a station where people can craft pills without paying the exorbitant prices that the sect charges (25 red stones a week? to use the furnaces?) allows Cai to cheaply buy those pills (lower creation costs, lower prices) and then give them to her underlings.

We benefit because we can ask the better pill makers to make unique pills for us, or just regular pills. It is, after all, through our generosity that Lady Cai has this opportunity to begin with. If we are able to buy really good custom made pills cheaply, our cultivation will skyrocket.
Yeah, but I'm not worried about Ling Qi. Would Su Ling join in on that sort of thing?

Yes it's cheaper, but it could tie her to a faction she doesn't want to join and narrow her ability feel she's earned it in the way she chooses.

I just wrote an omake about Su Ling getting significanlty stronger through her pill making. I don't want to give her rivals a huge leg up. :(
 
Anyway for more fun ideas.

Ling Qi at the vent this week:

"Su Ling, did you ever get that pill furnace?"

"Yup!" Su Ling said cheerily. Then her eyes narrowed "Why?"

"Well I ran across something and I was wondering if you could tell me how good it is. You can borrow it if you want.". Ling Qi points and dumps a huge pill furnace out of her ring and onto the ground.

Su Ling and Li Suyin stare for a minute.

"Things just kind of escalate around you don't they." Su Ling said in a tone of weary disbelief.

"But is it any good?"
 
Yeah, but I'm not worried about Ling Qi. Would Su Ling join in on that sort of thing?

Yes it's cheaper, but it could tie her to a faction she doesn't want to join and narrow her ability feel she's earned it in the way she chooses.
She probably won't join in on that sort of thing. If I am remembering correctly, Su Ling chose to get a talisman from the inner sect, and that talisman was a small personal pill furnace.

She doesn't need to use the Sect's production facilities all that much anymore and she is able to craft in peace at her own pace.

She may use the thing we set up with lady Cai, but she won't be bound by it, and she is not in this for the competition either. She doesn't care what her peers are doing, she is going to do her own thing.
 
I dislike trying to trade one of our argent arts before we've so much as looked at what Argent Current does. At the same time I acknowledge the danger that Xiulan may trade it on her own first, let's not have that happen.

Selling AC to Han Jian group without Xiulan knowing is kinda scummy. I don't want to share AC with the GF group without asking Xiulan first.

Anyway i suspect that HJ won't be too interested in AC. His own martial arts seen quite good already. He will probably want AM, if anything.
 
Selling AC to Han Jian group without Xiulan knowing is kinda scummy. I don't want to share AC with the GF group without asking Xiulan first.

Anyway i suspect that HJ won't be too interested in AC. His own martial arts seen quite good already. He will probably want AM, if anything.
We're probably not going to be able to trade AC.

I mean we just offered AC to our allies without asking Xiulan's permission. What's stopping her from offering it to her liege without asking our permission?
 
Selling AC to Han Jian group without Xiulan knowing is kinda scummy. I don't want to share AC with the GF group without asking Xiulan first.

Anyway i suspect that HJ won't be too interested in AC. His own martial arts seen quite good already. He will probably want AM, if anything.
Oh sorry. I meant to say afterwards that we should ensure that Xiulan and Ling Qi trade together and both get the results of any trade.

We're probably not going to be able to trade AC.

I mean we just offered AC to our allies without asking Xiulan's permission. What's stopping her from offering it to her liege without asking our permission?
The fact she's had a massive falling out with Han Jian?

That he's direct competition for the inner sect and hasn't (apparently) offered her anything he got out of his trial?

Not wanting to fall further behind?

Not wanting to give up one of the few things she's earned herself?

The fact that being under someone's authority in the noble hierarchy doesn't involve giving them everything or being their slave?
 
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I mean we just offered AC to our allies without asking Xiulan's permission. What's stopping her from offering it to her liege without asking our permission?

Well, for one, we have the slip for now. We only got one of those, you know?

And anyway, if she offers it to Han Jian, well, good for her? It's her reward too.
 
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