I counter with, "but does that extra amount of money open up options we don't already have?"I would say no, it does not.
Yes it does. Money is how we get bases. Bases open up option. We got the gurlanins because we built a base on their planet, for example. There are many potential assets we can get with nothing more than credits, assets which, crucially, do not require actions to get. This TU subversion stuff is DEFINITELY the kind of thing that'll require follow up actions and we quite frankly have too much else on our plate. The action economy on TU subversion is utter crap.
 
[] Wat's Fate:
-[] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
-[] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
-[] Write-in (Is there some other option that you haven't considered?)
Ordinarily, I'd be all for delivering Wat Tambor in exchange for bounties. But here's the thing: we have a lot of money. Like, absurd amounts of it. And given the number of bases, base upgrades, and write-ins for next turn... we're going to have lots of money for the foreseeable future. So we don't need the bounty.

Handing him over to the Eternal City folks might be risky, but only if we don't know who we're handing him off to. I'm assuming we'll pick and choose a specific person or group from the Eternal City, to take responsibility (and have our agents check their background to avoid 'sudden but inevitable betrayals'. More importantly, though, the 'Eternal City' option would give us leverage over the Techno Union, adding it to our stable of "questionable Separatist megacorporations" that we can use as the war winds down.

[] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
-[] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
A Gurlanin impersonator would be amazing, and they are really good at what they do. But if we're giving Wat Tambor over to the Eternal City escapees, then we're already going to get leverage over the Techno Union, which would be main point of having an impersonator in the first place.

On the other hand, I really like @Killerflood's idea of using Wat Tambor to sow dissension within the Separatist ranks. We could use Wat's authorization codes to send a message to the rest of the Separatist Council, indicating that the 'Republic clone commandos' that attacked Metalorn were actually BX commando droids in disguise (it's happened before in canon...). This would indicate that either Dooku or another megacorp took down the Techno Union. Then we wait to see how the dinner with Dooku pans out, before deciding whether Wat's death should be blamed on Dooku himself, or on (e.g.) the Corporate Alliance. (Remember that Talesan Fry hates the Corporate Alliance due to them murdering his parents, so he might be willing to forge whatever documents are necessary to cast them in a bad light.

@Dr. Snark: could we do something like this? If so, would that be a separate option, or would it be classified as using a Gurlanin impersonator (if only for the initial holo-message)?


As for the 'fine balance' between keeping the CIS weak or letting it live... remember that the Separatist movement has two sides, that the legitimate side has been more-or-less coopted by ourselves through the Council of Neutral Systems, while the current CIS is almost totally puppeted by the Sith. Also remember that Palpatine wants the CIS to appear strong, to create an imminent threat that he can use to amass more power for himself. A weaker CIS does not pose a threat to the Republic, which means he'd have a harder time gathering that power.

Let Palpatine work to ensure that the CIS doesn't die out completely. The more we weaken the CIS, the more effort he has to spend keeping it alive.
 
On the other hand, I really like @Killerflood's idea of using Wat Tambor to sow dissension within the Separatist ranks. We could use Wat's authorization codes to send a message to the rest of the Separatist Council, indicating that the 'Republic clone commandos' that attacked Metalorn were actually BX commando droids in disguise (it's happened before in canon...). This would indicate that either Dooku or another megacorp took down the Techno Union. Then we wait to see how the dinner with Dooku pans out, before deciding whether Wat's death should be blamed on Dooku himself, or on (e.g.) the Corporate Alliance. (Remember that Talesan Fry hates the Corporate Alliance due to them murdering his parents, so he might be willing to forge whatever documents are necessary to cast them in a bad light.

@Dr. Snark: could we do something like this? If so, would that be a separate option, or would it be classified as using a Gurlanin impersonator (if only for the initial holo-message)?

Hmm...I'd say it'd be folded under an impersonator, and I'd probably have another vote after the Dooku interlude to confirm how you want that to play out.
 
Then my choice is clear.

[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.

[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)


Also, have a vote tally.

EDIT: Yeesh that's a mess. Here's a hand-count:

Wat's Fate: 16 votes for Eternal City, 6 votes for Bounties
Impersonator: 13 votes for No, 7 votes for Yes
Adhoc vote count started by Publicola on Oct 10, 2017 at 7:12 PM, finished with 49 posts and 26 votes.

  • [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
    -[X] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
    [X] Wat's Fate:
    -[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
    --[X] hold of doing so until AFTER the meeting with Dooku. something unexpected might come up.
    [X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
    -[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
    --[X] likewise, hold off final say till after the meeting with Dooku.
 
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Yes it does. Money is how we get bases. Bases open up option. We got the gurlanins because we built a base on their planet, for example. There are many potential assets we can get with nothing more than credits, assets which, crucially, do not require actions to get. This TU subversion stuff is DEFINITELY the kind of thing that'll require follow up actions and we quite frankly have too much else on our plate. The action economy on TU subversion is utter crap.

We don't have a base on Qiilura, we have one on Ord Mantell to recruit Gurlanin. Bases are a limited factor just as much. Why would a set of simple base purchases net us more than subverting the whole damn CIS and forcing Palptine out of his comfort zone? We are limited in actions, yes, but most of those actions aren't directly useful against Palpatine. We have three actions for intrigue, the most likely to be needed, and of the potential options from last turn, I only see around 4 that are even potentially useful and only in the way of investigation of Palp's assets or attacking the CIS already. The only truly useful one in my opinion is Tipoaca City sabotage and maybe Shu Mai (a subversion option).

[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Killed in a falsified cover-up to sow dissension or paranoia in the CIS leadership.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
 
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[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Kill him and collect the myriad bounties that are no doubt on his head.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
 
Ordinarily, I'd be all for delivering Wat Tambor in exchange for bounties. But here's the thing: we have a lot of money. Like, absurd amounts of it. And given the number of bases, base upgrades, and write-ins for next turn... we're going to have lots of money for the foreseeable future. So we don't need the bounty.

On the other hand, we generally end each turn in debt.

More cash would especially help to fun our military build-up. Fleets to get our droid armies in positions are likely to be useful soon...

However... I am inclined to insert the Gurlanin impersonator and then use the false Wat as a bargaining chip with Dooku when we meet him. Being able to offer him the chance to reveal an impersonator inside the CIS inner circle would give him a lever he could use to consolidate his own power.

So, bounties or use him as a bargaining chip with Dooku.

fasquardon
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Killed in a falsified cover-up to sow dissension or paranoia in the CIS leadership.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)

To be frank, I don't really care about screwing with the CIS. Aside from Dooku, taking them down is a comparatively easy matter of black-ops and economic sabotage. I also don't think even Tambor is going to get anywhere near stuff that'd be incriminating to Palpy. The best I can bet for is using him to set something up on Palpatine or Maul as was mentioned earlier.

What I don't want, is to have his connection to the destruction of the Unreal City facility, and the true actors examined. At all. Giving him to the prisoners is unlikely to result in much, or worse could backfire and get him freed if they screw-up guard duty.

Turning in his bounty is even more undesirable if anything. The money isn't the issue, but the amount of attention brought will be. The CIS is going to want to know who took out one of their leaders, and the REP is going to want to know how exactly he got killed (if only for their own use in taking down other leaders) in addition to watching whoever they give that much money to. All this does is bring a lot of attention onto whatever alias we try to use. Above all else, I don't want Palpy thinking we're anything more than a minor annoyance that can be dealt with after his ascension.

Also, I'm kinda hopeful we can grab the Nemesis. The recent galactic news mentioned disappearing Republic battle-groups, and frankly that sounds exactly like its MO. Since that ship is almost totally droid controlled, save for a few tactical officers all it will take is some very good hacking. And the only organics in the CIS that could really be a problem to an Abyss Watcher team + Hero unit is Dooku ... and Dooku is a public figure that can't afford to abandon his faction to gallivant around on a secret ship, especially right now.
 
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)

Not sure about what to do with the real Wat.
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.

[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.

[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
 
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)

This is exactly the kind of thing we got the anti-Force shapeshifters for. Let's use them.
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Killed in a falsified cover-up to sow dissension or paranoia in the CIS leadership.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
 
We know where Dooku will be at a known time. It shouldn't be that hard to make sure FakeWat is never in the same system for the few days he's active. Tambor is a senior officer of a massive multi-system conglomerate - what we just blew up is not all they have. FakeWat can indulge in a flurry of asset stripping and fund siphoning as he's "bugging out" because of [insert destabilizing story here]. That will add CIS and TU bounties to the pile that we collect on the real Wat.
 
This is exactly the sort of long-term galaxy spanning strategy stuff I'm terrible at.

Y'know who isn't?

[X] Publicola
 
[X] Wat's Fate:
-[X] Hand him over to some of the Eternal City escapees, odds are they'd be happy to have custody of him and could use him to get leverage over the TU as a whole.
[X] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[X] No. Dooku would probably pick them up and the consequences of that would be very bad.
 
Part of me wants to choose the kill him option but see if we can't get a bidding war going among the eternal city escapees for how he dies.
 
I'm worried about pulling the infiltrator and handing him off to the inmates. The flavor text implies they intend on using him as leverage to gain influence and power of their own (while being indebted to us). It's kinda hard to leverage a hostage when they think that hostage is still amongst them. Presumably, Ciaran would have a plan that ameliorates that issue but I'm still a bit twitchy about it.
 
It's kinda hard to leverage a hostage when they think that hostage is still amongst them.
Per the vote text:
[] Gurlanin Impersonator Is Go?
-[] Yes. Getting someone to impersonate Wat for even a few days could be invaluable. Who knows where you could get them? (Naturally you'd hold off on dealing with Wat until after they're finished with their mission)
So we'd send in the Gurlanin impersonator first, to do <all kinds of possible mischief>, then once he's been extracted, then we go ahead and hand Wat off to the Eternal City escapees to wreck even more havoc on the Techno Union.

The 'presumably' is that, whatever we have Wat do, he'll still retain at least some value as a hostage or informant for the Eternal City action to be effective. But given the super-crit involved, I'm pretty sure @Dr. Snark will be nice about such things.
 
@Dr. Snark, can we send in the impersonator to get into the Techno Union's bank account and transfer all their money to us? If so, would we make more money from killing Wat due to the Techno Union/Separatists putting bounties on Wat for his actions?
 
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