Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

I'm still voting for Preparing for Learning, though. Even if I'm also not a huge fan of its pills use, I like its strategy more than Getting Armed's.
Can you elaborate? At this point the only thing I'm probably going to change is the Li Suyin subvote, but knowing what other people dislike is always good to learn how to make better future plans.
Sure. That's a completely different point. But she wouldn't have had to ask us if she didn't want, she simply didn't need to push the idea that we were independent and we would stay in her orbit because everyone would see us as part of her faction and treat us as such. We wouldn't get invited to speak to Lady Cai, because without her pointing it out people would have thought she spoke for us.

Hell, we already have enemies for that reason, people who are after us because we're 'Meizhen' faction.
We have also made enemies because of being a friend of Li Suyin, and because of being a friend of Gu Xiulan, and I'm sure we also made some by being a friend of Han Jian that we are unaware of.

We hadn't been invited to speak at the Cai meeting simply because she didn't know we had a breakthrough as she herself said. While she might have assumed we were Bai Meizhen's vassal, I doubt she wouldn't have confirmed it, just in case, especially as even back then she was trying to court us.

Su Ling is someone who doesn't believe in the whole 'noble nonesense', in some ways a bit like Ling Qi or Ji Rong, though obviously not the exact same way. She isn't seeing our gifts to us as her being ours, but just as trades and as friendships trade. If she believed it would make her a vassal, her reaction would be very different.

If your plan is "make her a vassal without her being aware of it", this will end up badly.

As for Bai Meizhen, she clearly either don't want us as a vassal at all (hence her seeing Li Suyin and Su Ling as ours) or she wants us to be strong enough that she won't have her clan rolling all over us.
 
Su Ling is someone who doesn't believe in the whole 'noble nonesense', in some ways a bit like Ling Qi or Ji Rong, though obviously not the exact same way. She isn't seeing our gifts to us as her being ours, but just as trades and as friendships trade. If she believed it would make her a vassal, her reaction would be very different.

If your plan is "make her a vassal without her being aware of it", this will end up badly.
Yeah I don't think Su Ling is the type to ever think of herself as a vassal, or even want to end up in our debt too heavily. It would not even really be worth it to go for such a status with Su Ling. Having her willing to trade favors with other people to get things we need, like the kiln stuff, in exchange for our help seems ideal.

Li Suyin is a whole different story, and if we were already a green level cultivator with an imperial writ I think this situation would probably be playing our quite differently. She is going to end up working under someone eventually, and it might as well be us. At least we are her friend as well.
 
Yeah I don't think Su Ling is the type to ever think of herself as a vassal, or even want to end up in our debt too heavily. It would not even really be worth it to go for such a status with Su Ling. Having her willing to trade favors with other people to get things we need, like the kiln stuff, in exchange for our help seems ideal.

Li Suyin is a whole different story, and if we were already a green level cultivator with an imperial writ I think this situation would probably be playing our quite differently. She is going to end up working under someone eventually, and it might as well be us. At least we are her friend as well.

Have we ever asked what Suyin's goals were? I think she wants to be a scholar? Maybe she wanted to work at one of the Ministries?

I honestly have no idea.
 
Have we ever asked what Suyin's goals were? I think she wants to be a scholar? Maybe she wanted to work at one of the Ministries?

I honestly have no idea.
Suyin's goals change every few weeks. She wanted to heal people or something, she wanted to run home and cry, she wants revenge. Her motivation literally changes every month. It will be very interesting to see how she handles the firming up of desires that seems to come from ascending to yellow.
 
Right now, I'm confused with people's desire to get to know Xuan more. It seems to me that people are wanting to base a friendship/training buddy relationship with him for the major purpose of getting to know formations more.
I don't know about others, but personally he just intrigues me and I want to investigate if there are further benefits to his SL.
Though it might lock us away from Ji Rong SL, I'm more willing to put up with Xuan than him.
 
Suyin's goals change every few weeks. She wanted to heal people or something, she wanted to run home and cry, she wants revenge. Her motivation literally changes every month. It will be very interesting to see how she handles the firming up of desires that seems to come from ascending to yellow.

There's also Argent Mirror. Who knows, maybe Mirror will grant her reflections that can help her identify and deal with her issues.

Our issues are fairly light. We don't have an actual goal to strive towards (Ling Qi doesn't anyway). I wonder how Argent Mirror works for someone who has as many issues as Suyin.
 
From what I gather, Suyin's current goal is revenge, but before she lost her eye, I always thought her goal was mastering her Clan's Arts and finding a way to heal the broken Dantians (Is that the term?) of her family members.
 
Yeah, her current short term goals seems to be to become strong enough to be able to become a cultivator she can be proud of, and her long term goals are probably to become strong enough, if it's possible, to heal the broken dantian of her grandfather (if he is still alive). Anyway, @Codex, every single plan has us talking to Li Suyin about her future plans, so we might know for sure.

@mc2rpg anything I can do to convince you to vote?
 
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That certainly became her goal, after it stopped being to run home and cry.

I think she only felt like that for a week or two, when she was at her worst after the Huang Da debacle. We all have those moments where we fall into a depression and find it difficult to acheive our goals. So we contemplate giving up and running away.

To me, Suyin is the most relatable character in Forge of Destiny.
 
I think she only felt like that for a week or two, when she was at her worst after the Huang Da debacle. We all have those moments where we fall into a depression and find it difficult to acheive our goals. So we contemplate giving up and running away.

To me, Suyin is the most relatable character in Forge of Destiny.
She contemplated it, and was absolutely going to do it until we acted. I have absolutely no doubt that if we had skipped out on being her emotional support for more than two weeks she would have bailed.

[X] Plan Getting Armed
 
Idly wondering if theres a Leg/Spine Fire/Wind art for the Invincible Wind-Fire Wheels..
Regardless, if it was Kang Zihao, and it was aimed at Ling Qi, he failed - and not just failed, but lost quite a bit of face. After all, they never even caught sight of Ling Qi, nor was their defeat at her hands (so a lot harder to grab for reasons to attack her again for the bulk of the cultivators). That is, they weren't beaten, they simply failed - or rather, Kang Zihao failed. If it was a group he coaxed, it'll be a lot harder to coax them into doing his bidding next time. If it was a group of his followers, his leadership skills are now (somewhat) in doubt.

Of course, that's assuming that it was about her. We believe so because we're following a narrative - it's quite possible that it was something unrelated to Ling Qi. After all, the only evidence going in that there might've been an ambush was someone who might have been one of Kang Zihao's followers being in the mission area when Ling Qi took the mission... and the only evidence going out was "a bunch of disciples came in having gotten in a scrap, probably in the wilderness". Even narratively/"Ling Qi is the center of the story", the former could simply have been a red herring, and the latter a consequence of Ling Qi luring the wolves out of their normal territory in the chase :p

(No reason not to have Ling Qi behave somewhat cautiously though, mind you - it's not paranoia, etc etc, and there might well be enough people out to get her and Kang Zihao might well be one of them)
Whichever the case, I suspect it's building up to a confrontation. Those ambushers lost a hell of a lot of face(they didn't even GET a fight, which would at least have satisfied them that a stronger Cultivator won and they should avoid Ling Qi until they can get even more dudes and tricks, they got whupped by the wildlife in a wild goose chase) and that probably means their own peers would be looking at them with salt and pepper ready.
 
Honestly if the burst art we get ends up being good and we consider picking up a non-training bow from somewhere I think it might be worth it to track down Kang in a month or so. He seems like the weakest of the available socially acceptable targets that are not our friends. If we go at him without his little red swarm beating him doesn't seem improbable, and it would stop his shenanigans for at least a little while. Either that or next time we have a chance we just beat his red swarm like it owes us money to discourage their shit.
 
Whichever the case, I suspect it's building up to a confrontation. Those ambushers lost a hell of a lot of face(they didn't even GET a fight, which would at least have satisfied them that a stronger Cultivator won and they should avoid Ling Qi until they can get even more dudes and tricks, they got whupped by the wildlife in a wild goose chase) and that probably means their own peers would be looking at them with salt and pepper ready.
I've been of two mind about this. Yes, it's almost certainly building up to a confrontation, but I suspect that if we had went and beaten them up (and looted them) Kang Zihao would have realised he has to take us seriously now, not as Bai Meizhen's servant but as someone who is now close to his own level.

So while I think it's building up to a confrontation, I'm hoping it is still one where they severely under-estimate us. If we can get SCS3 as well as a powerful arm art this week, it might be enough of a gamechanger for us to be able to counter their attack even without leveraging our posse. If we do leverage our posse, though, things will be even better.

My plan also gives a possibility of quick mid-yellow by week 19/20, which not only means both our spiritual and physical side would have +4 auto-success against late red/gold but also possibly means we could give a good fight to Kang Zihao much, much sooner than he expects.
Honestly if the burst art we get ends up being good and we consider picking up a non-training bow from somewhere I think it might be worth it to track down Kang in a month or so. He seems like the weakest of the available socially acceptable targets that are not our friends. If we go at him without his little red swarm beating him doesn't seem improbable, and it would stop his shenanigans for at least a little while. Either that or next time we have a chance we just beat his red swarm like it owes us money to discourage their shit.
Yup. But I wouldn't be surprised if even by week 20 his own posse will try to attack us and severely under-estimate us, and then Kang Zihao might come to the rescue only to be beaten too.
 
[X]TheLastOne

...........................are people seriously unable to understand Suyin doesn't want any more charity? Stop making her feel bad just because you want to be nice to the woobie.

If we absolutely must give it away, give it to Su Ling as payment or whatever so we can boost our relationship.

Plus wasting a snowy peak pill when we have only 2 arts is silly.
 
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[X]TheLastOne

...........................are people seriously unable to understand Suyin doesn't want any more charity? Stop making her feel bad just because you want to be nice to the woobie.

If we absolutely must give it away, give it to Su Ling as payment or whatever so we can boost our relationship.

Plus wasting a snowy peak pill when we have only 2 arts is silly.
Yeah, I'll probably end up taking away the Li Suyin's subvote as there seems to be a disconnect between how I see things and other posters do.

OTOH... You are aware that @TheLastOne is also using a Snowy Peak Pill right?

EDIT: Hell, my plan is cultivating 3 arts, while TheLastOne's 2...
 
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I don't think we betrayed her? Betrayal is when someone that you owe something has a a reasonable expectation of you, you know about it, and yet you fail to meet said expectation. If we had promised to be there for Li Suyin and weren't, that would be betrayal - but there were no such promises. At worst, we failed to prioritize her needs above our own, but that is selfishness, not betrayal. And sometimes, you can't afford to not be selfish.
Anyway, took off the subvote as it seems I am the only one for it and it's unfair to force it on other voters.

Selfishness would have been prioritising our needs above her own, not what we did during the Thunderdom, where we purposefully chose to go on a shopping spree when everything hinted to her being beaten at the same time. And we had told her we'd have her back at the time, as well as promised ourself we'd try to be a better friend.

I understand, though, that I am probably the only one inthread to think we flat out betrayed her, and as a friend put it, "it colours how I think of everything after that". It also feels frustrating that we always go down to Waifuing the same character and ignoring what I feel are friends in need again and again.

For the Qi Foundation Pill.. We know Li Suyin is preparing to breakthrough and will be at yellow week 20 or so, so not giving it to her again feels like "Yeah, fuck you, I prefer keeping this pill I'll never use and do nothing with because you are a whiny little girl". And I understand that's not where a lot of voters are coming from about this, but when the actual arguments seems to come down to "I don't trust her to not be a fragile flower", I am saddened. Li Suyin is badass and determine and extremely smart, no fragile flower.

So yeah, @Katreus, taking off the subvote, and I am going to hug my cat a bit about what feels to me like once again betraying a friend because we know better than them what they need.
 
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I'm gonna be honest -- it certainly seems like you're misreading the situation fairly badly here, particularly given that you seem to be the only one feeling this way. If nothing else, we definitely didn't betray her (as that involves deliberate disloyalty or actively working against somebody), and not giving her the Qi Foundation pill definitely isn't because we think she's a "whiny little girl" as you put it.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Grigori on Jun 18, 2017 at 7:36 AM, finished with 17042 posts and 47 votes.

  • [X] Plan Getting Armed
    -[X] Use from inventory: Starlight Elixir + Darkmoon Pill + Snowy Peak Pill + Qi Expansion Pill + 2 Red Stones + 1 Yellow Stone
    -[X] Buy and use: Steady Growth Pill + White Hart Elixir + Flowing Rivers Pill + Bear Marrow Elixir + Channel Cleansing Pill (costs 26 red stones)
    -[X] Buy and use needed 2 red stone elemental pills for the archive art.
    -[X] Closed Door Cultivation (+1 Major Action, -2 Minor Actions)
    -[X] Direct any overflow to Spiritual Cultivation
    --[X] Train by hunting with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] Open Spine Meridian
    --[X] Train with Bai Meizhen
    ---[X] Sable Crescent Step
    --[X] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
    --[X] Spiritual
    --[X] Li Suyin is doing better, coax her out into studying, and talk to her about her plans
    -[X] Visit the Archive
    --[X] Search for a technique
    ---[X] A Arm/X meridian art with preferably Wind and/or Water elements.
    ----[X] Check if the upgrade to ZB is on the first floor
    -[X] Do Cai's mission
    --[X] Cultivate on Your Own
    --[X] EPC
    --[X] Take the time to do something fun with Gu Xiulan, you had noticed her looking down toward the end of the week
    [X] Plan Preparing for Learning
    -[X] Use One Highsun Pill, One Darkmoon Pill, 1 Snowy Peak Pill, 2 Red Stones, 1 Yellow Stone
    -[X] Buy and use Channel Cleansing Pill (2 Red Spirit Stones), Qi Expansion Pill (2 Red Spirit Stones), Bear Marrow Elixir (4 Red Spirit Stones), White Hart Elixir (6 Red Spirit Stones), Steady Growth Pill (8 Spirit stones)
    -[X] Overflow to Spiritual
    -[X] Major Actions
    --[X] Train by hunting with Han Jian and his group
    ---[X] Arm Meridian
    --[X] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
    ---[X] Spine Meridian
    --[X] Train with Bai Meizhen
    ---[X] Sable Crescent Step
    ---[X] Mention your theory that Argent Mirror part of a set of four, and ask if she thinks it might be right, and if so, it's worthwhile to try and search for the others.
    --[X] Look into the attacks as Cai Renxiang asked you too.
    --[X] Cultivate on Your Own
    ---[X] Eight Phase Ceremony
    -[X] Minor Actions
    --[X] Take the time to do something fun with Gu Xiulan, you had noticed her looking down toward the end of the week
    --[X] Li Suyin is doing better, coax her out into studying, and talk to her about her plans
    --[X] Approach Xuan Shi in the archive. He is the only member of the council aside from Kang Zihao that you haven't had any real interaction with
    [X] Plan Double Mission and Study Formations
    -[X] Resources - 2 Red Stones, 1 Yellow Stone
    -[X] Free action: Qi cards - ask Bai Meizhen if she would be willing to fill them.
    --[X] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
    --[X] Spiritual
    -[X] Visit the Archive
    --[X] Study formations
    --[X] Add social action - Approach Xuan Shi in the archive. He is the only member of the council aside from Kang Zihao that you haven't had any real interaction with
    --[X] Train with Bai Meizhen
    ---[X] Eight Phase Ceremony
    ---[X] Mention your theory that Argent Mirror part of a set of four, and ask if she thinks it might be right, and if so, it's worthwhile to try and search for the others.
    --[X] Look into the attacks as Cai Renxiang asked you too.
    -[X] Mission: Investigate Disappearances - Ask Xuan Shi, if not Su Ling
    -[X] Spend more time with Han Jian fleshing out your understanding of noble politics
    --[X] Li Suyin is doing better, coax her out into studying, and talk to her about her plans
    -[X] Spend more time with Su Ling, learning harvesting techniques and getting to know the girl better
    [X] Plan 2Arms
    -[X] Use from inventory: Starlight Elixir + Darkmoon Pill + Snowy Peak Pill + Qi Expansion Pill + 2 Red Stones + 1 Yellow Stone
    -[X] Buy and use: Steady Growth Pill + White Hart Elixir + Flowing Rivers Pill + Bear Marrow Elixir + Channel Cleansing Pill (costs 26 red stones)
    -[X] Buy and use 2 red stone elemental pills for the archive art if needed
    -[X] Closed Door Cultivation (+1 Major Action, -2 Minor Actions)
    -[X] Overflow - Spiritual Cultivation
    --[X] Train by hunting with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] Open Spine Meridian
    --[X] Train at the vent with Suyin and Su Ling
    --[X] Spiritual
    --[X] Li Suyin is doing better, coax her out into studying, and talk to her about her plans
    -[X] Visit the Archive
    --[X] Search for a technique
    ---[X] Arm/X meridian art with preferably Wind and/or Water elements
    ----[X] Check if the upgrade to ZB is on the first floor
    --[X] Train with Bai Meizhen
    ---[X] Sable Crescent Step
    -[X] Do Cai's mission
    --[X] Cultivate on Your Own
    --[X] EPC
    --[X] Take the time to do something fun with Gu Xiulan, you had noticed her looking down toward the end of the week
 
I'm gonna be honest -- it certainly seems like you're misreading the situation fairly badly here, particularly given that you seem to be the only one feeling this way. If nothing else, we definitely didn't betray her (as that involves deliberate disloyalty or actively working against somebody), and not giving her the Qi Foundation pill definitely isn't because we think she's a "whiny little girl" as you put it.
I'm not going to get into a long argument against it simply because this will get everyone angry for no reason, but let's just say I consider what we did deliberate disloyalty.

Likewise, I have said that it was not because she is 'considered a whiny little girl' people were not wanting to give it to her, but maybe I should have been clearer?
 
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I am starting to suspect that we're not all starting from the same basic understanding of Li Suyin which is complicating our discussion unnecessarily.

What we know of her is this: she has admitted, several times, that she's wanted to leave the Mountain/ doesn't want to be here/would have been happy with a much less stressful occupation (scribe, physician's assistant). She's also sold herself short several times (it essentially took her two weeks to break through not several months, she had a foot art mastered when she claimed she hadn't mastered any arts, she may have been the one to prepare the argent pills) so this might be more of the same, it's always hard to get at essential character of a person when the person doing the describing is not reliable. She's also appeared to be really naive, seeming to take for granted that general decency of cultivators even when given evidence to the contrary.

This changed after the events of the Thunderdome though, except for one moment where she told us 'if it weren't for you, maybe I'd have given up' and the general assumption was: oh, wonderful, she's grown a spine. But the reality is, traumatic events rarely adds much except for scars. It's why we're so worried that she might have started beating people up and stripping them down to their underwear despite this streak of aggression not really manifesting itself in her interactions with us (even when fighting Huang Da she seemed more distraught than anything else).

Earlier I said I thought she might have an inferiority complex. I don't like diagnosing characters because a) they're not real, b) diagnoses should be carried out by professionals, c) most QMs do not come up with characters and start assigning them complexes so there's a lot going against it.

Nevertheless, here's what an inferiority complex is according to wikipedia:

An inferiority complex is a lack of self-worth, a doubt and uncertainty about oneself, and feelings of not measuring up to standards. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extremely asocial behavior.​

Causes

An inferiority complex occurs when the feelings of inferiority are intensified in the individual through discouragement or failure. Those who are at risk for developing a complex include people who: show signs of low self-esteem or self-worth, have low socioeconomic status, or have a history of depression symptoms. Children reared in households where they were constantly criticized or did not live up to parents' expectations may also develop an inferiority complex. Many times there are warning signs to someone who may be more prone to developing an inferiority complex.​

Does Li Suyin have an actual diagnosable Inferiority Complex? Difficult question to answer. Especially since I'm not sure 'inferiority complex' actually made it into the DSM but that's neither here nor there.

What I do think is true is that she feels inferior.

She's not rich enough, she's not talented enough, she's not strong enough, she's not powerful enough, she can't win the archive pass, she can't get rid of Huang Da on her own, she can't heal people (enough), she can't protect her friends, she can't defend her home, she can't - can't - can't - can't and it's overwhelming. Probably the only thing she can take pride in is her intellect, but on the Mountain, it isn't enough.

Hell, she thinks she's so worthless that even though she got a prize from Professor Su for being ONE OF THE BEST THIS WEEK she still thought she'd be kicked out for not cultivating hard enough. Even her mortal goals are modest: she doesn't want to be a physician, just their assistant, doesn't want to be a bureaucrat like her father, just a scribe.

Again, I don't want to diagnose but it's reaaaaal difficult here. Gu Xiulan is probably not wrong in suspecting she's a dead weight, Li Suyin is not the sort of person who will make it far on her own, every time she stands up she punches herself in the face.

According Adlerian Psychology (which is apparently only one step removed from Freudian psychology and in my mind therefore quite suspect)

A secondary inferiority feeling relates to an adult's experience of being unable to reach a subconscious, reassuring fictional final goal of subjective security and success to compensate for the inferiority feelings. The perceived distance from that reassuring goal would lead to a negative/depressed feeling that could then prompt the recall of the original inferiority feeling; this composite of inferiority feelings could be experienced as overwhelming. The reassuring goal invented to relieve the original, primary feeling of inferiority which actually causes the secondary feeling of inferiority is the "catch-22" of this dilemma, where the desperate attempt to obtain therapeutic reassurance and delivery from a depressing feeling of inferiority and worthlessness repeatedly fails. This vicious cycle is common in neurotic lifestyles.

Li Suyin probably has a goal and it's likely unrealistic. We unfortunately don't know what that goal is. We know that one of her current goals is 'beat up girl who beat me up'. I doubt that it'd relieve her feeling of 'I'm not good enough' though, at most it'd be a band-aid. She probably has an absurdly idealized image of what a Cultivator should be like and the pressure of that image and being unable to correspond to it is making her feel like she's not worthy.

Alternatively, and here we are getting into very murky waters, I think that given her focus on physical cultivation after she met us, her reassuring fictional goal might actually have been conflated with Ling Qi who is... ironically, probably one of the most noble cultivators on the mountain. 'If I can be as strong as Ling Qi, if I can be as good as Ling Qi, if I can be as powerful as Ling Qi...'

It's why she was so happy to help us - because helping us helps push away that feeling that she isn't matching up, that she isn't good enough because here she is equal to us.

But, again, speculation.

What we know is that even when things are going relatively well for her she feels inferior, acts like she's not worthy and puts huge amounts of pressure on herself without giving herself any outlet. I don't know what the solution is, or if there even is a solution, but I'd personally feel cheated if something that's been so strongly hinted at and characterized were 'solved' in a few actions. Some things you just have to live with.

However, if my speculation is correct, then what Li Suyin needs to see is Ling Qi relaxing more and working less. To see her as less than perfect. In her mind we have basically made time for her every week for the past few months. She probably doesn't see that as 'friendship time' just 'tutoring'. We, on the other hand, grew up on the streets alone so for Ling Qi this is omg social contact I am so gud at socializing wow i am amazeballs at myself good going ling qi.

I'm probably wrong here on some or several counts, but this is my current understanding of Li Suyin. :V
 
Anyway, took off the subvote as it seems I am the only one for it and it's unfair to force it on other voters.

Selfishness would have been prioritising our needs above her own, not what we did during the Thunderdom, where we purposefully chose to go on a shopping spree when everything hinted to her being beaten at the same time. And we had told her we'd have her back at the time, as well as promised ourself we'd try to be a better friend.

I understand, though, that I am probably the only one inthread to think we flat out betrayed her, and as a friend put it, "it colours how I think of everything after that". It also feels frustrating that we always go down to Waifuing the same character and ignoring what I feel are friends in need again and again.

For the Qi Foundation Pill.. We know Li Suyin is preparing to breakthrough and will be at yellow week 20 or so, so not giving it to her again feels like "Yeah, fuck you, I prefer keeping this pill I'll never use and do nothing with because you are a whiny little girl". And I understand that's not where a lot of voters are coming from about this, but when the actual arguments seems to come down to "I don't trust her to not be a fragile flower", I am saddened. Li Suyin is badass and determine and extremely smart, no fragile flower.

So yeah, @Katreus, taking off the subvote, and I am going to hug my cat a bit about what feels to me like once again betraying a friend because we know better than them what they need.

Personally I agree with you, I don't want this pill to go to waste. Can we trade this in for Su Ling help- gathering cores for turtle?
 
Personally I agree with you, I don't want this pill to go to waste. Can we trade this in for Su Ling help- gathering cores for turtle?
That's probably going to be a vote for next week if Su Ling hasn't broken through yeah. OTOH we know Su Ling doesn't really have a fair view of 'trades', so I think gifting it to her will probably not give us any less core than trading it to her.
 
I think if anyone should feel betrayed regarding the Thunderdome it'd be Meizhen since we saw her get in a fight and left her to it, knowing that she was alone (not including Cui) whereas Suyin and Su Ling. Personally I had no interest in running to save Suyin but I can respect the rest of what Arkeus is saying and actually didn't mind the subvote. She might have a somewhat fragile mindset but I doubt that the pill would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I'd be up for trading it to Su Ling alternatively but those were the two we had in mind when we kept it right?
 
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