Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

I'm sorry I was unaware that we decided against bringing Meizhen in to prevent this exact situation. Also FYI we have Su Ling too.

This also relies on him actually trying to attack us again instead of just being a creepy sexually harassing weirdo who believes we're just being tsuntsun and that we'll eventually come around.
Yes, because we'll always be with Meizhen, and that we typically do our study sessions in a fucking cottage. Su Ling tends to be independently
hunting most days, so relying on her is out, and Meizhen can't always be there. We're not always going to be surrounded by people, they're our friends not our bodyguards after all.

Again, I wouldn't mind Haku if it came with a plan to leverage the ever loving shit out of it, and wasn't only going to get more powerful after the truce ends. If people stopped being obsessive* and recognized there are probably basic water arts that aren't support and prioritized them, I wouldn't have much issue with it. But if we grab something like the sash we have to be dedicated to leveraging it as much as possible. And I think Crimson Flowing Water is a bad way of doing that to begin with.

To say nothing of the fact there's nothing stopping us from having our new fangled sash stolen since unlike the staff we'll be visibly toting it about.

*Seriously, we got told Li Qing was a solid support before we revealed FVM shenanigans- there's absolutely zero need to grab CFW right now for the sake of being a better team player.
 
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Katreus, Arkeus, tricholysis, Rhydarson, Pwnbot, Thor's Twin, Vanguard_D, Neshuakadal, Grigori, notanautomaton, Delcer, Kshail, Kipeci, lioli, RLDX, LunarDreams, Sirrocco, pheonix89, 1986ctcel

I hope you are all very certain in your decision of locking us in for more support type arts in the future. Because, y'know, that's what we are likely to get from water.

Yo. Tagging everyone is not cool, and this is verging on badgering.

But yes, I am certain. I knew going in that Sash would be good for both FVM and the Crimson Flowing Water Art, which I planned to pick up anyway (assuming we get the pass). I've wanted it since we saw it the first week to help round out our build, both for the self-sustain and the sensory part. I was the original supporter of



Lucio. I don't think it locks us into support only, and I'd support picking up spine or arm arts when we get the opportunity. That's the key part. I know that if we get the archive pass, we'll have access to the water art. I don't know when or if we'll get access to a spine or arm art that complements our build.

Also, just in general, I like the aesthetics of a blue sash decorated with stylized waves. It'll match our blue eyes.
 
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Third time's the charm.
[ NOPE AGAIN I GUESS OH GOD WHY DO WE DO THIS] Plan Haku

We know water has useful support arts, we don't know that water has only useful support arts. I'm sure there's Arts for channelling water's chill through weapons, or flexibility boosting dodge-focused spine Arts, or whatever.

@TheLastOne I believe it was you who raised concerns over weapon choice and suitability in melee, I apologize if it was not, but you will be happy to know that the White Hail Knives are equally suited to melee combat as the bo staff. Both have DV4. Ling Qi doesn't suffer from any penalties in melee combat, and she gains full use of her mastery dice in throwing daggers. She loses her ranged-specific bonus dice from ZB, but that is the case for all melee. Go check out the update where we stabbed that kid down the well if you don't believe me. It was pretty explicit about things.
 
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Is that actually a valid option? I was under the impression that that wasn't really an option.
The QM said it was an option, so...
Adhoc vote count started by notanautomaton on May 9, 2017 at 8:48 PM, finished with 359 posts and 50 votes.
 
In hindsight perhaps a custom item was the best choice, since it takes between 1-4 weeks for us to commission a new tool. When do we expect to trade the staff away in Plan Frugal; probably the same length of time?

On the other hand, I really dislike the idea of getting another support Art.
 
Also, just a note on Crimson Flowing Water Art, I support picking it up because it has sensory buffs which is great for a sneak, and damage mitigation is great for everyone. My interest is mostly to do with personal use, not teamwork. that's just gravy. It really helps that our week 12 plans mean we'll have a few spare meridians hanging around, and if we get the archive pass we can likely master the Art to the first level in one action due to our support/exotic specialization. I'm largely in favour of filling up arm/spine/whatever meridians with free trash techniques to bridge us till we get something better.

The passives alone are likely to be worth it, CFW is just going to be the lowest investment. I'm not married to the Art or anything, it just seems sensible.
 
Or just support Frugal, as we will likely be able to order a darkness or, even better, Yin aligned talisman with the staff plus some funds we nick from the students?

It's outrageously shortsighted to get a Water focused talisman with all our money, when we have all of one water art, and the only other one we even know off is a healing one, when we need offense.
But... I'm not getting a Water focused talisman. I'm getting a Darkness one. Which we can upgrade later, when we have money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and all that.
 
Alright, while I really don't need to explain my constant vote changes, I would feel bad just making a drastic vote change without a reason.
The reason is this, I find the whole impassionate cries of anger over the staff to be silly. Very silly. I don't care whether we keep it, sell it, or trade it. I find the sash could be very valuable, but we could also get something more aligned with our arts later on. It's not likely that we will keep the staff forever, or that waiting a week and communicating with others will be detrimental.

I don't like being called stupid, nor do I appreciate the insinuation that my goal is to pigeonhole our wonderful character. My goal is to have a fun and enjoyable journey on the road of cultivation. However, I can indeed recognize when a potential plan is possibly better, and I can see both plans being extremely beneficial for about the same reasons. The road to cultivation is long, and this vote will not determine the ultimate destination of our character. More challenges will come and we will overcome them as in the past. We will do it with cunning, strength, friendship, and the guts to never give up and achieve the freedom we desire.

The two plans in the running right now are not so different in the long run, and while there are points of contention that should be debated as vigorously as possible, that vigor should never descend into name calling and badgering.

Enough about that though. My vote has changed. Embrace the dark side, for they have cookies!
[X] Plan Frugal
 
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...and a Yin type is going to be *hugely* more expensive for the same effect than an element-specific type. It would probably be more efficient to get them one at a time, no?
The only reason I'm not advocating for a custom item now is because I'm unsure if we could pay part of it on recieving it. Because we will have a lot more money to throw around pretty soon, and can thus leverage the staff for a better artifact.

Darkness would certainly be much more useful than Water.
@TotallyNotEvil I'm going to say that I disagree with your interpretation of the usefulness of the sash, and I don't like the selling of the drugs in order to keep red stones up. However, I really don't care what happens with the staff. So, you almost have me convinced to move to Plan Frugal. I just need to know, does plan Frugal have cookies?
Sure we do.
Plan Frugal promises that it will have cookies some day, and that they will be worth the wait. They're just not quite sure what form the cookies will come in, or when that will be.
In about three weeks, and I guarantee they will make Haku's taste like cardboard.

Seriously, look at the situation:
1) We have two Darkness Arts, one Wind art (which is where our natural talent lies), and the one Water art we have involves playing wind instruments.
2) The staff has the biggest value of most of anything we could get short-term. We've excelled so far by leveraging any advantage we can get to the max. Selling it at first opportunity to something barely suitable for us is the opposite of that.
3) The Sash in now way helps us use our best technique, and most expensive one, SCS.
4) In about two weeks, we will be able to accrue a whole lot more cash. At which time, we can comission a badass darkness-aligned battleflute by trading in the staff and said money.
5) The Sash, even within its specialty, is barely better than the 20 stone Hawk Talons.
6) We know: a) A super intelectual healer; b) A charisma-focused high noble; c) A super-connected socialite; d) Bai Meizhen. We can leverage our contacts to get a much, much better deal than we could ourselves.
7) You are telling me you want to sell something we know for a fact is very valuable without knowing its actual worth? When it could be anywhere from 60 to 200+?

We wait till we have some cash, which should be in Week 13 or so, and can thus set a proper commission for the custom item. Even better, we should definitely know how much the staff is properly worth.

There is only so much time we can spend cultivating new arts to useful levels, and that's not time we can spend on low-level stuff.

Imagine getting something like:
Obsidian Flute: This darkness-aligned Jian produces a haunting melody when swung by user capable of manipulating Wind. It provides 2 extra die to Darkness and Wind arts, and reduces their costs by one Qi each. DV 4, may produce music while attacking.

All I'm asking for is that we wait for two weeks, so we can make an informed decision. Why are so many people against that? When the Sash's effect for us is currently minimal?

We are getting the knives to be better, we are getting a new dot on them next week, we will be doing a pill-spree as planned. Just talk to our friends, figure this out, leverage it as far as we can. Our immediate needs are perfectly covered by Frugal.
 
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[X] Plan Frugal

Alright I'm switching mainly because it occurred to me that the boost to FVM doesn't matter. Anyone mid red and above will pass the check to escape. 2 successes right? I want to get rid of the staff but the sash doesn't look as tempting as I originally thought.
 
Obsidian Flute: This darkness-aligned Jian produces a haunting melody when swung by user with a Wind Art. It provides 2 extra die to Darkness and Wind arts, and reduces their costs by one Qi each. DV 4, may produce music while attacking.

All I'm asking for is that we wait for two weeks, so we can make an informed decision. Why are so many people against that? When the Sash's effect for us is currently minimal?
Because that would likely be way more than we can afford, even with a bunch more money? You're seriously underestimating the sash, and overestimating what we can get.
Adhoc vote count started by notanautomaton on May 9, 2017 at 9:04 PM, finished with 372 posts and 50 votes.
 
[X] Plan Frugal

Alright I'm switching mainly because it occurred to me that the boost to FVM doesn't matter. Anyone mid red and above will pass the check to escape. 2 successes right? I want to get rid of the staff but the sash doesn't look as tempting as I originally thought.
It's two successes with -3 dice, and it would be insane if they got to have auto-successes like the technique wasn't being used by a cultivator. I guarantee you it doesn't work that way.
 
Because that would likely be way more than we can afford, even with a bunch more money? You're seriously underestimating the sash, and overestimating what we can get.
You are seriously underestimating this:
"Now this… well, it is definitely of acceptable quality as a talisman. It is quite old as well, a few more years of use and it will likely develop an heirloom spirit."

Ling Qi frowned and thought back to her lessons with Elder Su. "That's… when an object or a building develops a mind of its own through continuous exposure to human qi, right?" She asked thoughtfully. "Doesn't that take… a really long time though?"

Bai Meizhen nodded simply, and Ling Qi was glad to not have to disappoint her with ignorance once again. "Typically a century or so at minimum, yes. In any case, it's use is simple enough, it empowers wood techniques and provides some of the energy required for them through it's own internal stores. It is also rather sturdy, I doubt a cultivator below the bronze stage could break it through brute force, given the durability enhancing formations etched into the wood."

Besides, if I'm reading it right, the Sash doesn't actually do anything to us besides the minimal cost reduction, because we don't actually clash when using FMV. So, there, it's a huge investment that will require us to hunt down even more Water arts for it to be of any meaningful use.

A talisman that would take the equivalent of Green physical cultivation to attemp to break it, which Meizhen, super-Late Yellow prodigy, considers of good quality for its effects, and is, at the very, very least, over a century old, in which is was constantly used by a cultivator.
 
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@Kshail Yeah, FVM is great against pretty much anyone. I don't think that they are getting auto successes to their perception merely from being a cultivator.
 
I just don't understand why people don't want a Darkness focused Sash, given that that would enhance two arts and we could get it upgraded later. People are weird.

You are seriously underestimating this:


Besides, if I'm reading it right, the Sash doesn't actually do anything to us besides the minimal cost reduction, because we don't actually clash when using FMV. So, there, it's a huge investment that will require us to hunt down even more Water arts for it to be of any meaningful use.
I'm talking about a Darkness focused Sash, which would be useful if we continue to build Darkness.
 
Because power that we'll gain an unknown period of time later is a lot shittier than power we need two weeks from now.
 
I just don't understand why people don't want a Darkness focused Sash, given that that would enhance two arts and we could get it upgraded later. People are weird.


I'm talking about a Darkness focused Sash, which would be useful if we continue to build Darkness.
I want a darkness-focuses Talisman too, but we have a great weakness in that we must either play or fight.

A specialized talisman is the key to that. A darkness-type battleflute play to pretty much all of our strenghts.

If we could way two weeks.
 
Finally, in regards to cultivation level. Your cultivation acts as a modifier for all relevant actions, providing a free success on any relevant role for each stage of your cultivation. Now most times when you are receiving such bonuses, you will be competing with other cultivators in some way. As you can see, against someone of equal level this bonus cancels out, essentially leaving things up to your skills and abilities. Against someone of higher or lower level it begins to make quite a difference.

A fight against someone two levels above you for example, gives them a rather large two success bonus over you before you even begin rolling dice. It is even worse when competing against someone a full stage(that is if they are Yellow and you are red for example) the number of bonus successes doubles. So a late red stage(3) versus and early Yellow stage(4) results in two bonus successes even though they are only one level apart.

It's two successes with -3 dice, and it would be insane if they got to have auto-successes like the technique wasn't being used by a cultivator. I guarantee you it doesn't work that way.

@Kshail Yeah, FVM is great against pretty much anyone. I don't think that they are getting auto successes to their perception merely from being a cultivator.
It's hidden in the background. Normally it doesn't show up but it's still there. They just cancel each other out. If someone needs two to escape FVM then they're set even losing dice.
 
The only reason I'm not advocating for a custom item now is because I'm unsure if we could pay part of it on recieving it. Because we will have a lot more money to throw around pretty soon, and can thus leverage the staff for a better artifact.

Darkness would certainly be much more useful than Water.

Sure we do.

In about three weeks, and I guarantee they will make Haku's taste like cardboard.

Seriously, look at the situation:
1) We have two Darkness Arts, one Wind art (which is where our natural talent lies), and the one Water art we have involved playing wind instruments.
2) The staff has the biggest value of most of anything we could get short-term. We've excelled so far by leveraging any advantage we can get to the max. Selling it at first opportunity to something barely suitable for us is the opposite of that.
3) The Sash in now way helps us use our best technique, and most expensive one, SCS.
4) In about two weeks, we will be able to accrue a whole lot more cash. At which time, we can comission a badass darkness-aligned battleflute by trading in the staff and said money.
5) The Sash, even within its specialty, is barely better than the 20 stone Hawk Talons.
6) We know: a) A super intelectual healer; b) A charisma-focused high noble; c) A super-connected socialite; d) Bai Meizhen. We can leverage our contacts to get a much, much better deal than we could ourselves.
7) You are telling me you want to sell something we know for a fact is very valuable without knowing its actual worth? When it could be anywhere from 60 to 200+?

We wait till we have some cash, which should be in Week 13 or so, and can thus set a proper commission for the custom item. Even better, we should definitely know how much the staff is properly worth.

There is only so much time we can spend cultivating new arts to useful levels, and that's not time we can spend on low-level stuff.

Imagine getting something like:
Obsidian Flute: This darkness-aligned Jian produces a haunting melody when swung by user with a Wind Art. It provides 2 extra die to Darkness and Wind arts, and reduces their costs by one Qi each. DV 4, may produce music while attacking.

All I'm asking for is that we wait for two weeks, so we can make an informed decision. Why are so many people against that? When the Sash's effect for us is currently minimal?
That's not three weeks. That's "in three weeks we *might* have the money" and then wait for the custom item to come in after that. Note that the plan for accumulating a bunch more money is some combination of robbing people (which takes actions and is uncertain) and winning fights (which is decently likely to occur, but uncertain in how much loot we get out of it).

Also, when you say "a lot more money", how much are you imagining? If it's 10 red stones, that's not that big a difference. If it's 100 red stones, then having the staff to trade in is less important.

...and then I read this.
5) The Sash, even within its specialty, is barely better than the 20 stone Hawk Talons.
*Goes back*. *Looks*.

Well, $#@%. That's a good point.

[x] Plan Frugal

I like the *shape* of Plan Haku, but the fact is that the Water Sash just isn't that good, and as far as the plan goes, that's really pretty damning. Here's hoping we don't get our staff stolen some time between now and when we can trade the thing in.
 
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