Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We did get a price for the Ledger though, didn't we? We just chose to pay for it with the pots.
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
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- Original Fantasy Action
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- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
We did get a price for the Ledger though, didn't we? We just chose to pay for it with the pots.
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An alternative was, IIRC, 100 Food just to do it, then another 100 for secrecy, so I guess we could say we paid the equivalent of 200 and charge them some portion of that. That's fairly arbitrary, though.
Pushing that may also cause significant problems. I dunno. My plan involved using social Tricks to see how far we can push them but there was no response to that, so I have no idea there.
@Imperial Fister would pushing for interest on the 'loan' we made them by paying them for services not yet rendered be a problem, Goodwill wise or otherwise? We have the social Tricks to figure out that much, at least, I'd think?
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, that's a big price, but they also took a big price and then didn't deliver at the promised time, which isn't something they should get away with either. We can't just do it as a single lump-sum either or they might just write it off as a bad deal. Better for a modest but noticeable penalty per season until they get us that info.
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Yeah, I edited in a thing to ask IF what our social Tricks say about this. We have the stats and skills to have more insight into Toki's likely reaction there. We shouldn't need to decide that blind.
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- Mid-Atlantic
I love this idea, but it does mean the armor is only usable by Odr cultivators, Seers, and similiar people which is a very small group for the foreseeable future. the gods help thing is better for actually empowering the Norse as a whole. but I can see Halla making two versions- a spirit armor for herself, and a Godsplate for a bit more widespread use(still limited by the sheer cost but at least usable by anyone)
I mean, its most likely what they use to make forged iron.
Too bad they won't teach us, what with that's how humans learned blacksmithing by Norsequest culture...
Would +50 free balance/season until we get it back be good?
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That's probably too high...that would be charging 50% yearly interest on a loan, using the above figures and the loan analogy. I was thinking maybe 10. 10% yearly interest is more reasonable.
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
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[X] DeadmanwalkingXI
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This is what I'm thinking for the 'charge interest' idea...this is effectively 9 Food worth of stuff per season and has the virtue of simplicity:
-[ ] If our social Tricks indicate it wouldn't be a terrible problem, broach the idea of them paying us for the delay in returning the ledger to the tune of doubling our usual gains from our existing deal (so +24 oz Forged Iron and +6 Magical Iron per turn) until the translated ledger is returned to us...with back pay based on when they said they'd have it to us, this would also net us 48 oz Forged Iron and 12 oz Icy Iron immediately.
That seems reasonable to me, though it's dependent on our read on Toki.
-[ ] If our social Tricks indicate it wouldn't be a terrible problem, broach the idea of them paying us for the delay in returning the ledger to the tune of doubling our usual gains from our existing deal (so +24 oz Forged Iron and +6 Magical Iron per turn) until the translated ledger is returned to us...with back pay based on when they said they'd have it to us, this would also net us 48 oz Forged Iron and 12 oz Icy Iron immediately.
That seems reasonable to me, though it's dependent on our read on Toki.
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AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
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Yeah Deadman, that seems like a reasonable amount to charge
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We'll give them a bye on the initial delay as a token that we don't consider this necessarily to be a hit on our relations, and an understanding that Shit Sometimes Happens, and they might argue that that's on us for not inspecting, but yeah, this could work going forward.
Should specify that we want the translated Ledger, they took responsibility for getting us the translation after all.
Should specify that we want the translated Ledger, they took responsibility for getting us the translation after all.
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Fair. The above version is sort of already giving them a bye in many ways...we gave it to them a whole year go and they implied we'd get it at after a season. The end of Summer was already pushing it, and this only charges them starting then. But I'll add the translated bit.
even then, I think Alectai is right. we want to make sure to maintain good relations, and getting this is IMO much more important than more a few dozens of iron. if we need it that much, we can buy it with 5 more food. and this IS a bit our fault for not checking
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Yeah the pluses/minuses I see for each are;
Godly Armor is usable by any Norse person who can obtain it, which is a potential boon because it prevents things like Odr based discrimination, and can be a boon even for young norsemen. It's effects are likely more set, which is a plus and a minus; you know what you're getting when you put on Odin Plate. But it means it's not always going to fit what we want. Is Hallbjorn going to be an Odin plate type person, or would he prefer we venerate, idk, Baldr? It means it's not one size fits all.
It also relies on outside forces; what if the gods get tired of lending their might or oppose the action being taken with the shared might? We don't really know. Tying back to young norsemen using it: extended use of its benefits is likely to stunt Orthstirr growth. Probably not hugely at first but over time as more people start relying on it more often.
Fylgja Armor only requires an unveiled Fylgja theoretically, but probably also requires it be powerful enough to Actualize, which seems to be a difficult process that we don't know when it's even available. It would be theoretically endlessly variable like Knightly Armor, with Halla being able to hand off her owl armor to Sigurdr and he has Albatross Armor, making it easier to pass down. But that also means we don't know what it will do until we first use it - if it's not particularly relevant, we can't really change it, but we can probably trust it would be relevant-ish.
However, it's use locks up some other uses of Fylgja stuff, such as our infinite shield spam strategy we use, or actualizing it in other ways such as a weapon or other combat aid. No major cost otherwise though, doesn't expend any resources besides needing to craft it.
Spirit Armor as posited most recently by me has the downside of requiring Odr, which instantly makes it even more elitist than being able to afford to make full plate already is. Depending on the spirits contracted the powers would vary much like the powers of a godly armor, but with even more adaptability than a Fylgja armor most likely - because theoretically we could change what spirit is inside it, by ending our contract with one and finding another. This would make it the most variable to situation armor, but requires Odr, being able to talk to spirits, and being able to negotiate with them to do what we want. All easy tasks for Halla potentially, but maybe not for someone else. I also expect the power to not be as high as Godly Armor at its maximum output, but that's my personal read.
It's also completely unproven to even be possible, unlike the other two.
I don't see why we can't, given time, make all three variations. Obviously, we won't need 3 armors immediately, but to pass down or just as prototypes to make later. We can also choose, for example, to spread the secrets of godly armor but keep the other two a secret. We might even be able to forge it for some very powerful people in exchange for money or other stuff.
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Okay, here's a slightly revised version of the above suggestion as a revision of the actual plan:
[X] Plan Replenishing Stocks
-[X] Purchase 600 oz. Forged Iron (-51 Food)
-[X] Purchase 10 oz Forged Iron and 1 oz Molten Iron for 1 Food (-1 Food)
-[X] Purchase 24 oz each of Dusty Iron, Molten Iron, Drafty Iron, and Storm Iron (-16 Food)
-[X] Purchase 7 Socket Stones (-7 Food)
-[X] If our social Tricks indicate it wouldn't be a terrible problem, broach the idea of them paying us for the delay in returning the ledger to the tune of doubling our usual gains from our existing deal (so +24 oz Forged Iron and +6 Magical Iron per turn, while we continue to provide only 3 Food) until the translated ledger is returned to us...with back pay based on when they said they'd have it to us, this would also net us 48 oz Forged Iron and 12 oz Icy Iron immediately, which we'll forego if we need to do so to avoid problems or look more reasonable.
The last bit seems conditional enough it's probably fine...we have the chops to avoid offending the dwarves, and they do owe us. They can't just ignore their contractual obligations and hope we don't notice.
[X] Plan Replenishing Stocks
-[X] Purchase 600 oz. Forged Iron (-51 Food)
-[X] Purchase 10 oz Forged Iron and 1 oz Molten Iron for 1 Food (-1 Food)
-[X] Purchase 24 oz each of Dusty Iron, Molten Iron, Drafty Iron, and Storm Iron (-16 Food)
-[X] Purchase 7 Socket Stones (-7 Food)
-[X] If our social Tricks indicate it wouldn't be a terrible problem, broach the idea of them paying us for the delay in returning the ledger to the tune of doubling our usual gains from our existing deal (so +24 oz Forged Iron and +6 Magical Iron per turn, while we continue to provide only 3 Food) until the translated ledger is returned to us...with back pay based on when they said they'd have it to us, this would also net us 48 oz Forged Iron and 12 oz Icy Iron immediately, which we'll forego if we need to do so to avoid problems or look more reasonable.
The last bit seems conditional enough it's probably fine...we have the chops to avoid offending the dwarves, and they do owe us. They can't just ignore their contractual obligations and hope we don't notice.
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Yeah knowing about all of it is cool and good. Ultimately we only stand to gain from more knowledge. Having multiple kinds of sets might even be useful to us eventually.
I wanna make enough sets for every kid to have one regardless. With that in mind, that's a lot of sets to play around with.
[X] Plan Replenishing Stocks
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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I imagine that they'd be willing to give you a deal on things, but would bristle at the price you paid being called a 'loan'.
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Does the idea above of charging an ongoing price until we get the translated ledger back (which does not use the word loan, I'll note) seem reasonable? Or would they only be willing to do something more one-time?
I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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It does seem reasonable to me
If we're going to start making full plate harnesses as gifts or commissions, that will start getting expensive in metal pretty quickly.
Obviously we could choose not to do that, but given this is Halla and Stern's innovation and a big part of her legacy, and a victory over stasis... the more we spread it around, the more fame we reap, and the more likely we make it that this innovation spreads around.
One option might be to ask those we commission for to provide the forged iron, honestly.
Also, when this Dorri business is finished, we should find some local families and offer to take on their kids as apprentices. It's not a Norse tradition, but it's a useful way of spreading knowledge and cultivating alliances at the same time. I'd like us to have a grand workshop with an attached library - we can be like Aristotle's school, but for the children of Norse royalty rather than Alexander and friends. That's a profound way to break stasis and piss in the Enemy's cornflakes. A new generation of Norse leaders who are literate in multiple languages, new learning, and new perspectives? That's the biggest change to the status quo we could make.