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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mopman43 said:
There's Johann's arm.

Not sure outside of that. (Not sure if 'get the Lizardmen to do it' is a viable strategy)
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I was more thinking of whether there was anything from canon.

For another direction of radical transhumanism, find a swarm of the apparitions known as Flies of Nurgle that has the potential to become a familiar, bind them in the form of floating golden eyeballs, make them a familiar, and develop the Share Senses familiar trait. Then look through the eyes of the swarm. Useful not only to replace regular eyesight but with a host of potential, from 360 degree vision, to sending some of the swarm off to scout to being able to examine things from all sides at once, depending on whether you can adapt to process the sensory information.

Depending on the nature of an Apparition's senses, might also allow accessing a different form of Witchsight.

What could go wrong!

Edit: an alternative option would be to see if the elves know how to control the process of creating an artificial familiar more precisely to get a desired result and know how to work with a familiar to control what traits you get. Then, surgically remove the Chamon saturated eyes and use them to make a a pair of artificial familiars before reimplanting them.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
Tell me where it says in there that regular Teclisian magic is ok. Article 7 is a list of banned topics, not allowed topics.
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It is, I'll give you that. But to the average elector is the red knight who laughs while hunting wizards with a sword, a normal aparation of the warp, or does it suspiciously look like a khornite daemon? What about the hellhound packs? Or maybe the flies of nurgle as their colloquially known?
Aparations skirt the line, we think their safe and we are pretty certain about that, but to the people making the judgments that would come down on the colleges this might be too much...
 
Tobtorp said:
7. No Magister may ever study the Forbidden Lores of the Daemonic Powers, nor the unholy ways of Necromancy, nor any other sorcery or witchcraft that utilises the wicked powers of Dark Magic. Any Magister found disregarding this Article is guilty of an Abominable Act and is both Heretic and Traitor and will be put to sword and fire immediately.

Tell me where it says in here "but apparations are absolutely ok!"
Guilty will be decided not by the colleges but by the empire, it's electors and the emperor. Us telling them that "it's absolutely ok, trust me bro!" Is not a convincing argument when it's already been revealed the colleges have hidden this specific use of entities from warp from said empire, electors and emperor.
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Burden of proof is on you I am afraid especially since I already laid my own proofs.

More to point Emperor trusts the Wizards to keep eachother in check and has never acted otherwise. So your argument that Emperor would lose all confidance on the Collages over a tehcnicality like apparations has no foundation that I can see.

Only reason Collages are keeping quite is to not rile up Sigmarite zealots who doesn't need proof either way just an excuse.

But I mean if that is how you are approaching this I am not going to argue becaus it is pointless.
 
[X] Plan Sorcery and Waystones
[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts
[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal
 
Tobtorp said:
It is, I'll give you that. But to the average elector is the red knight who laughs while hunting wizards with a sword, a normal aparation of the warp, or does it suspiciously look like a khornite daemon? What about the hellhound packs? Or maybe the flies of nurgle as their colloquially known?
Aparations skirt the line, we think their safe and we are pretty certain about that, but to the people making the judgments that would come down on the colleges this might be too much...
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It might be too much for Dieter IV but any other Emperor has always choice to write to Teclis for arbitation or better yet ask Asur Embassy to send somebody to make judgements if they are looking somebody qualified to make judgements that is not Collages themselves.

So we are circling back to the fact that we can convince qualified people but we can't convince the ignorant zealots.
 
Tasoli said:
It might be too much for Dieter IV but any other Emperor has always choice to write to Teclis for arbitation or better yet ask Asur Embassy to send somebody to make judgements if they are looking somebody qualified to make judgements that is not Collages themselves.

So we are circling back to the fact that we can convince qualified people but we can't convince the ignorant zealots.
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... Ok I was finished with this topic but I gotta ask... Why in the world would the empire defer judgment of their own to the elf's who in recent memory wiped out their army? The thread has an appreciation for teclis but the empire know the elf's as these assholes who support Marienburg.
 
There is a reason why every magical tradition that does apparitions, does not talk about doing apparitions.
And why golds told us to not cite them as a source.

Apparition binding, looks bad, it does not matter that it is not, it still looks bad, and the colleges would rather keep good PR where possible.
I see no poit in going public with apparitions, which is the only reason why any of this would be relevant.
 
Tobtorp said:
... Ok I was finished with this topic but I gotta ask... Why in the world would the empire defer judgment of their own to the elf's who in recent memory wiped out their army? The thread has an appreciation for teclis but the empire know the elf's as these assholes who support Marienburg.
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Teclis was was its first teacher, grandmaster and the one to set foundations rules and laws of the Collages, and was trusted to do so by Magnus. Why wouldn't he be trusted in any collage issue? Unless Emperor thinks he is better than Magnus to make such a judgement he has no choice but to trust him.

IF said Emperor has lost the confidance in each and every one of the collages in turn and thinks he knows better than Magnus? Collages has a big problem and that problem is not apparations.

Edit: I mean you can ask Grand Thegonist but only if you want to see him start singing "dig throught the ditches and burn throught the witches"
 
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Tasoli said:
Teclis was was its first teacher, grandmaster and the one to set foundations rules and laws of the Collages, and was trusted to do so by Magnus. Why wouldn't he be trusted in any collage issue? Unless Emperor thinks he is better than Magnus to make such a judgement he has no choice but to trust him.

IF said Emperor has lost the confidance in each and every one of the collages in turn and thinks he knows better than Magnus? Collages has a big problem and that problem is not apparations.
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Because he's not been heard of or seen or even wrote a letter to the empire since he left after the founding of the orders.
He's also part of ulthuans ruling class and ulthuan has made it very clear who they support in an empire Marienburg clash.
Again the thread and the colleges have an respect for teclis that is understandable... But no one in the empire has seen the elf for 300 years.
 
Mopman43 said:
Depends on if you think Kroq'gar's arm is a prosthetic or a gauntlet.
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The one example I found was the Rock Eye the ogres use, where the ogre replaces one of their eyes with a piece of stone from the crater around the Great Maw and replaces one of their eyes with it, apparently granting 'sight beyond sight'. It can selectively see through solid material (allowing the detection of characters hidden in units) and the detection of magic items and what they do.

If it wasn't almost certainly evil gut magic, it would be ideal for Johann.

Tobtorp said:
Because he's not been heard of or seen or even wrote a letter to the empire since he left after the founding of the orders.
He's also part of ulthuans ruling class and ulthuan has made it very clear who they support in an empire Marienburg clash.
Again the thread and the colleges have an respect for teclis that is understandable... But no one in the empire has seen the elf for 300 years.
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One hundred (edit: and seventy) years I think. There may well be living Magisters who knew him.
 
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Tobtorp said:
Because he's not been heard of or seen or even wrote a letter to the empire since he left after the founding of the orders.
He's also part of ulthuans ruling class and ulthuan has made it very clear who they support in an empire Marienburg clash.
Again the thread and the colleges have an respect for teclis that is understandable... But no one in the empire has seen the elf for 300 years.
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He is still legally A Wizard of the Empire. He would count as wizard of the Collages therefore allowed to see Guild secrets threfore collages can't really deny him but since he was not seen 200 years so would be innocent if Collages started heresy after he is gone. And he still has Magnus seal of approval so Emperor can trust him if he trusts Magnus.

Alratan said:
One hundred years I think. There may well be living Magisters who knew him.
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200 years since the founding of collages. So probably not
 
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[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts

[X] Plan Orbs, Stones and Scopes, Ithilmar, arcane marks, Enchantment and Exploration
-[x] Create Orbs of Sorcery solo (requires one of each Power Stone)
-[x] Serenity: Write a book : Aethyric Vitae 1/2
-[x] Waystone: Build a Waystone: Everyone.
-[x] Attempt to gain control of one of your Arcane Marks (Unnatural shadow)
-[x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm (Auditory Seviroscope) Spend 5 CF for a Magister with Auditory Magesight to help out
-[x] JOHANN: Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Storms)
-[x] MAX: Receive dictation: Linguistic Drift in Lizardmen Glyphs, The Polyphenic Theory of Lizardmen Society
-[x] EIC: Gather as much Ithilmar from throughout the Old World as possible to resell to the Eonir for a one-time profit
-[x] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Aquila Academy)
-[x] COIN: Gambler: Build a Waystone
-[x] Eike Study: Learn Enchantment at the Colleges 1 CF
-[x] Eike Actions: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm, Explore the Ward of Storms with Johann
 
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Tasoli said:
He is still legally A Wizard of the Empire. He would count as wizard of the Collages therefore allowed to see Guild secrets threfore collages can't really deny him but since he was not seen 200 years so would be innocent if Collages started heresy after he is gone. And he still has Magnus seal of approval so Emperor can trust him if he trusts Magnus.
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He probably counts as something like a Lord Magister of all Colleges and None, given he was the first Grand Patriarch until he left 170 years ago.
 
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Tasoli said:
He is still legally A Wizard of the Empire. He would count as wizard of the Collages therefore allowed to see Guild secrets threfore collages can't really deny him but since he was not seen 300 years so would be innocent if Collages started heresy after he is gone. And he still has Magnus seal of approval so Emperor can trust him if he trusts Magnus.
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You really do like to point to the rules and ignore how real life works? The empire wouldn't allow another policy to judge it's own as much as ulthuan doesn't want Marienburg to judge elf's for it's crimes there.
This is just a fact for states, hell it's still a contentious topic today.
Teclis might be officially a member of the colleges but he's an elf that lives in ulthuan. That is the important bit.
As for Magnus? Yes people trust Magnus but funnily enough he's been also dead for about 300 years so it's hard to ask for his advice.

Edit: apparently it's 200 years so I'm adding it here for correction.
 
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I'm not sure I'm a fan of the plans where Eike is tagging along on a
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Old World Languages)
action. One of which is a current frontrunner.

If the plan is for Eike to learn a language, that's way better done through an Eike Study write-in. The KAU action is bureaucratic - it's about interviewing and hiring the teachers, not sitting in on lessons. I guess if the idea is for Eike to learn personnel management, it works.
 
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[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts
-[X] Create Orbs of Sorcery solo
-[X] Waystone: Build a Waystone (ALL) (The Gambler)
-[X] Waystone: Other Networks (Karaz Ankor) (Thorek)
-[X] Study an artefact: Ghyran Nut with Panoramia
-[X] Attempt to gain control of one of your Arcane Marks (Unnatural Shadow)
-[X] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae Part 1
-[X] EIC: Gather as much Ithilmar from throughout the Old World as possible to resell to the Eonir for a one-time profit
-[X] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Old World Languages)
-[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] Eike Actions: Ghyran Nut study, Karaz Ankor network, KAU action
-[X] Eike Study: Infiltration and Tradecraft with the Hochlander

Eike shadowing us for the KAU is probably not the best use of her time, but otherwise this seems ok.
 
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal (ore deal not included)
[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts
[X] Plan Redshirt v1: Infrastructure Focus
 
Gavin Prince said:
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the plans where Eike is tagging along on a
-[ ] KAU: Hire educators to teach a language or group of languages to your scribes (Old World Languages)
action.
one of which is a current frontrunner

If the plan is for Eike to learn a language, that's way better done through an Eike Study write-in. The KAU action is bureaucratic - it's about interviewing and hiring the teachers, not sitting in on lessons. I guess if the idea is for Eike to learn personnel management, it works.
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Hell, we have word of boney that that action is just for hiring and sorting out schedules, no significant teaching will happen...
 
Tobtorp said:
Teclis might be officially a member of the colleges but he's an elf that lives in ulthuan. That is the important bit.
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I imagine if Emperor were to write to him he would write back eventually.
Tobtorp said:
As for Magnus? Yes people trust Magnus but funnily enough he's been also dead for about 300 years so it's hard to ask for his advice.
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I suppose it is such a shame that he has not written down some rules down that gives you ironclad way to judge wheter you should trust the Collages or not. Some Articles even. Hmm.

But fuck Magnus lets outlaw the Collages over the first excuse we find, it is not like Empire needs the collages or anything hmm..

Surely Witch Hunters are hard enough to take the collages. hmm...
 
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